Well–it finally happened to me. I stripped the threads. I know there was
discussion on remedies in the archives but for some reason I can’t access
them. Would someone who has had this problem and solved it please let me
know how you did it?
TIA
Tom
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In reply to a message from Tom Felts sent Wed 13 Dec 2006:
Tom
I haven’t had the problem…yet, but I remember the thread. The
various repairs were: 1) Oversize plug. You can get a self tapping
plug which is oversized to cut new threads. 2) If you have any
threads left, install the permanent type plug that has a drain
built into it like Cool Cat sells, or the one with a separate drain
plug in the center like NAPA sells (called a piggy back plug). 3)
Go to the next size up metric plug, which I think is a 17mm or
18mm. 4) Install the rubber expanding oil drain plug. Or my
favorite, stick a wine cork in there and keep your fingers crossed.
Joel–
The original message included these comments:
Well–it finally happened to me. I stripped the threads. I know there was
discussion on remedies in the archives but for some reason I can’t access
them. Would someone who has had this problem and solved it please let me
know how you did it?
TIA
Tom
–
ex jag, '66 E-type S1 4.2, '56 XK140dhc
Denison, TX, United States
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In reply to a message from ex jag sent Wed 13 Dec 2006:
The cheapest solution that really works is to find an
expandable stopper. These stoppers are made for various
applications, and consist of a metal cylinder of
appropriate diameter with a rubber sleeve, and a bolt in
the centre. Place the stopper in the hole, and turn the
bolt. This expands the stopper, and it seals the hole.
Works very well.–
1969 4.2 Series 2 E Type
Brentwood Bay, B.C., Canada
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In reply to a message from Tom Felts sent Wed 13 Dec 2006:
Tom,
I drilled and tapped mine, in place, to 18mm, and installed a
Fram QuickDrain plug from the local parts store.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
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Or…fix it correctly by removing the pan, clean it out and weld, yes
weld a steel pipe section into the opening with ID treads, then, you can put
a steel drain bolt into steel treads. Working for me for years now.
Mike Goodwin & KoolKat
’ 68 OTS E Type W/HT & SUs
Phoenix, AZ USA----- Original Message -----
From: “ex jag” jcrprops@sbcglobal.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Oil Sump Drain
In reply to a message from Tom Felts sent Wed 13 Dec 2006:
Tom
I haven’t had the problem…yet, but I remember the thread. The
various repairs were: 1) Oversize plug. You can get a self tapping
plug which is oversized to cut new threads. 2) If you have any
threads left, install the permanent type plug that has a drain
built into it like Cool Cat sells, or the one with a separate drain
plug in the center like NAPA sells (called a piggy back plug). 3)
Go to the next size up metric plug, which I think is a 17mm or
18mm. 4) Install the rubber expanding oil drain plug. Or my
favorite, stick a wine cork in there and keep your fingers crossed.
JoelThe original message included these comments:
Well–it finally happened to me. I stripped the threads. I know there
was
discussion on remedies in the archives but for some reason I can’t access
them. Would someone who has had this problem and solved it please let me
know how you did it?
TIA
Tom–
ex jag, '66 E-type S1 4.2, '56 XK140dhc
Denison, TX, United States
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.16/582 - Release Date:
12/11/2006 4:32 PM
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In reply to a message from Michael sent Wed 13 Dec 2006:
Michael,
I don’t have the problem with the drain plug, but I am most
curious as to what technique is used to weld the steel to
the Aluminum pan.
Abner–
lilAbner
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Either the short piece of pipe was welded or an epoxy like JB Weld was used
to attach the pieces…I just know its working and steel into steel is a lot
better than steel into aluminum.
Mike Goodwin & KoolKat
’ 68 OTS E Type W/HT & SUs
Phoenix, AZ USA----- Original Message -----
From: “lilAbner” raberinc@verizon.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Oil Sump Drain
In reply to a message from Michael sent Wed 13 Dec 2006:
Michael,
I don’t have the problem with the drain plug, but I am most
curious as to what technique is used to weld the steel to
the Aluminum pan.Abner
lilAbner
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/585 - Release Date:
12/13/2006 11:49 AM
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In reply to a message from Tom Felts sent Wed 13 Dec 2006:
Tom!
On my 78 XJ the helicoil thread came out which the dealer here
put into the oil pan without telling me. Anyhow, I fixed mine
without taking the pan off by tapping another tapered thread
for a pipe plug which I drilled for a smaller size to drain
the oil in the future.
Sending you pictures off line.
Walter
69E ser.II
78XJ6 ser.II–
The original message included these comments:
Well–it finally happened to me. I stripped the threads. I know there was
discussion on remedies in the archives but for some reason I can’t access
them. Would someone who has had this problem and solved it please let me
know how you did it?
–
Walter Schuster 78XJ6LFI Ser.II, 69Eser.II 2+2
Albuquerque/New Mexico, United States
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In reply to a message from Tom Felts sent Wed 13 Dec 2006:
I copied this from Vintage Jag Works web site. Hope it helps…
Title: Oversize Drain Plug for aluminum sump XK engine cars
Tip: (This includes XK, 120, MK 7 early, later MK 2, 3.4 & 3.8 ‘S’,
420, MK 10, 420 G, E Types, and XJ6 series 1, 2, & 3).
The original drain plug gets over tightened and pulls the threads
out of the aluminum sump. The ‘‘factory’’ fix is to either replace
the sump or install a thread repair insert. The thread repair
insert is usually a Heli-coil or similar stainless steel square
section, wire insert, wound into specially prepared over-size
threads with a special installation tool. If properly done, this is
an effective repair. If not, it will still leak.
There are three contributing factors to the leaky repair. First,
the special threads for the insert are very difficult to cut
perpendicular to the outside seal surface of the sump where the
copper washer seats under the head of the drain plug.
Secondly, the nature of the insert being a coil of wire precludes
any effective seal on the threads.
So, thirdly, the copper washer seal will not squish enough to seal
if the seal surfaces on the sump and on the underside of the drain
plug hex head are not reasonably close in being parallel.
There are several solutions that work short-term such as cutting a
tapered pipe thread in the sump and installing a pipe plug with
thread sealant. Over the long term- the tapered pipe plug will
usually cause a crack in the sump.
Other short-term fixes, which rely on special seals or sealants
last until one day the special stuff is not readily at hand and
then, it leaks again.
If using a thread insert such as a helicoil, take the time to make
sure the threads are cut squarely and exactly on the centerline of
the hole. This also applies if cutting threads for an oversize
plug. The oversize plug we use in the shop is made as a standard
replacement plug for Volvo. It is 3/4-16 SAE thread and comes with
a new copper washer.
A suitable guide for the 3/4-16 tap can be made from a piece of one
inch, 1/8 wall round steel tubing. The tubing is cut off square,
preferable in a lathe, and is long enough to be in contact with the
cutting edges of the tap all the way to the shank, allowing the tap
to be turned with a wrench. The seating area on the sump must be
large enough for the tubing to set up squarely against the sump.
Carefully start the tap in the hole, through the piece of tubing,
being careful to hold the tubing squarely on the seal surface of
the sump. After the tap is started properly, it will stay aligned
and cut the thread. Use grease on the tap to retain the chips.
Good Luck!
Walt Osborn–
XKE man
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I like it! Thanks.
Tom
[Original Message]
From: XKE man timsullivan4@cox.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Date: 12/14/2006 12:22:37 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Oil Sump DrainIn reply to a message from Tom Felts sent Wed 13 Dec 2006:
I copied this from Vintage Jag Works web site. Hope it helps…
Title: Oversize Drain Plug for aluminum sump XK engine cars
Tip: (This includes XK, 120, MK 7 early, later MK 2, 3.4 & 3.8 ‘S’,
420, MK 10, 420 G, E Types, and XJ6 series 1, 2, & 3).
The original drain plug gets over tightened and pulls the threads
out of the aluminum sump. The ‘‘factory’’ fix is to either replace
the sump or install a thread repair insert. The thread repair
insert is usually a Heli-coil or similar stainless steel square
section, wire insert, wound into specially prepared over-size
threads with a special installation tool. If properly done, this is
an effective repair. If not, it will still leak.
There are three contributing factors to the leaky repair. First,
the special threads for the insert are very difficult to cut
perpendicular to the outside seal surface of the sump where the
copper washer seats under the head of the drain plug.
Secondly, the nature of the insert being a coil of wire precludes
any effective seal on the threads.
So, thirdly, the copper washer seal will not squish enough to seal
if the seal surfaces on the sump and on the underside of the drain
plug hex head are not reasonably close in being parallel.
There are several solutions that work short-term such as cutting a
tapered pipe thread in the sump and installing a pipe plug with
thread sealant. Over the long term- the tapered pipe plug will
usually cause a crack in the sump.
Other short-term fixes, which rely on special seals or sealants
last until one day the special stuff is not readily at hand and
then, it leaks again.
If using a thread insert such as a helicoil, take the time to make
sure the threads are cut squarely and exactly on the centerline of
the hole. This also applies if cutting threads for an oversize
plug. The oversize plug we use in the shop is made as a standard
replacement plug for Volvo. It is 3/4-16 SAE thread and comes with
a new copper washer.
A suitable guide for the 3/4-16 tap can be made from a piece of one
inch, 1/8 wall round steel tubing. The tubing is cut off square,
preferable in a lathe, and is long enough to be in contact with the
cutting edges of the tap all the way to the shank, allowing the tap
to be turned with a wrench. The seating area on the sump must be
large enough for the tubing to set up squarely against the sump.
Carefully start the tap in the hole, through the piece of tubing,
being careful to hold the tubing squarely on the seal surface of
the sump. After the tap is started properly, it will stay aligned
and cut the thread. Use grease on the tap to retain the chips.Good Luck!
Walt Osborn–
XKE man
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In reply to a message from XKE man sent Thu 14 Dec 2006:
I had a shop do the repair recently. My timing was bad,
though. The owner died after I dropped the car off. He
had indicated that a heli-coil was the way to go. The son
did the job, though. I have my doubts that it was done
properly.
He used a coarse 3/4 - 10 (as opposed to the 3/4 - 16
advised below) tap and bolt and did not follow the
alignment procedure advised below. And he used sealant,
presumably because it leaks.
The bill reads as follows:
Investigate drain hole size in order to purchase correct
size bolt at hardware…1 hr.
purchase correct size tap for drain hole…1 hr.
Go to two different hardware stores to purchase bolt in
correct size …1.5 hr
Tap drain hole with greased tap to precent metal filings
from entering oil pan …3.5 hrs.
purchase heavy duty bronze washer at speciality speed shop
… 1 hr.
Flushed drain hole with cleaning solvent several times…1.5
hr.
Installed bolt and washer in pan with sealant… 0.5 hr.
Remove oil filter canister from motor, wash out and
replace with new filter and install on motor 1 hr
Total time: 11 hours @ $65 per hour = $715 + $42tax $757
My guess is that the coarse threads will leak and will fail
sooner than finer threads because the torque is spread over
smaller surface area. The ‘‘mechanic’’ admitted that I could
have had the pan pulled and a machine shop re-do the
threads for about the same time as he charged to do his
magic.–
syncro
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In a message dated 12/15/2006 6:28:56 AM Pacific Standard Time,
steve@syncro.org writes:
The bill reads as follows:
HOLY BATMAN!
That’s absurd!
Mike Moore
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In reply to a message from syncro sent Fri 15 Dec 2006:
How on earth does anyone take 3.5 hours to run a tap into a
hole?? That guy is a crook! He could’ve removed the pan, welded
it, drilled it, and re-tapped it in that much time!–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
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Does this guy live close to and work with the chrome person we have been
discussing??? I’m speechless on this one.
tom
[Original Message]
From: syncro steve@syncro.org
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Date: 12/15/2006 11:25:33 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Oil Sump DrainIn reply to a message from XKE man sent Thu 14 Dec 2006:
I had a shop do the repair recently. My timing was bad,
though. The owner died after I dropped the car off. He
had indicated that a heli-coil was the way to go. The son
did the job, though. I have my doubts that it was done
properly.He used a coarse 3/4 - 10 (as opposed to the 3/4 - 16
advised below) tap and bolt and did not follow the
alignment procedure advised below. And he used sealant,
presumably because it leaks.The bill reads as follows:
Investigate drain hole size in order to purchase correct
size bolt at hardware…1 hr.purchase correct size tap for drain hole…1 hr.
Go to two different hardware stores to purchase bolt in
correct size …1.5 hrTap drain hole with greased tap to precent metal filings
from entering oil pan …3.5 hrs.purchase heavy duty bronze washer at speciality speed shop
… 1 hr.Flushed drain hole with cleaning solvent several times…1.5
hr.Installed bolt and washer in pan with sealant… 0.5 hr.
Remove oil filter canister from motor, wash out and
replace with new filter and install on motor 1 hrTotal time: 11 hours @ $65 per hour = $715 + $42tax $757
My guess is that the coarse threads will leak and will fail
sooner than finer threads because the torque is spread over
smaller surface area. The ‘‘mechanic’’ admitted that I could
have had the pan pulled and a machine shop re-do the
threads for about the same time as he charged to do his
magic.syncro
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You have been ripped off!!
But… that’s the way you learn. Be sure your friends and neighbors know about this guy.
LLoyd–
My driveway is long enough that you can appreciate the conflict between the desire for privacy and the terror of being completely lost .
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: “syncro” steve@syncro.org
In reply to a message from XKE man sent Thu 14 Dec 2006:
I had a shop do the repair recently. My timing was bad,
though. The …
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Ouch!
LynnOn Dec 15, 2006, at 6:17 AM, syncro wrote:
Total time: 11 hours @ $65 per hour = $715 + $42tax $757
My guess is that the coarse threads will leak and will fail
sooner than finer threads because the torque is spread over
smaller surface area. The ‘‘mechanic’’ admitted that I could
have had the pan pulled and a machine shop re-do the
threads for about the same time as he charged to do his
magic.syncro
Lynn G
73 2+2 (Pearle)
68 OTS (Emmy)
Boise, ID USA
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Dang, I’ve seen some scams before and this is right up there with the
worst. If you have the will and desire to rebel I’d at least try to
get some ligitimate estimates from a reputable shops for the work and
put it in their face. Most shops could pull the motor in that time.
pauls 67ots
In reply to a message from XKE man sent Thu 14 Dec 2006:
I had a shop do the repair recently. My timing was bad,
though. The owner died after I dropped the car off. He
had indicated that a heli-coil was the way to go. The son
did the job, though. I have my doubts that it was done
properly…
…Total time: 11 hours @ $65 per hour = $715 + $42tax $757
My guess is that the coarse threads will leak and will fail
sooner than finer threads because the torque is spread over
smaller surface area. The ‘‘mechanic’’ admitted that I could
have had the pan pulled and a machine shop re-do the
threads for about the same time as he charged to do his
magic.
syncro
<<<<<<<<<
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Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.phpFrom: “syncro” steve@syncro.org
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Oil Sump Drain
In reply to a message from syncro sent Fri 15 Dec 2006:
Holy Moly, that’s obscene.
It took less time than that for me to remove the pan retap to the
larger metric size drain plug, clean everything up and reinstall
the pan.
Thinking about these pan repairs I guess if I had to do it again I
would have fashioned a steel sleeve, with threads on the inside,
the same as the original drain plug and threads on the outside.
Then I would tap the pan for the OD threads and screw the sleeve in
using a suitable sealant that would ''cement the sleeve in the pan.–
The original message included these comments:
Total time: 11 hours @ $65 per hour = $715 + $42tax $757
–
John Walker, 1969 2+2 - ‘Lola’
La Porte, Tex, United States
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I think the only ‘magic’ he worked was to turn a simple job into a
week’s pay. The welder I use filled and retapped the original threads
for $85
Eric
Total time: 11 hours @ $65 per hour = $715 + $42tax $757
The ‘‘mechanic’’ admitted that I could
have had the pan pulled and a machine shop re-do the
threads for about the same time as he charged to do his
magic.
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Just noticed another thing that really irks me, TAX? Call me crazy but
I really don’t think that someone’s labor is subject to sales tax. I
can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to get into debates with service
providers about this subject. I can pretty much guarantee that this sum
won’t be reported to his local tax board.
Eric
Total time: 11 hours @ $65 per hour = $715 + $42tax $757
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