When did Jaguar move from the closed headlights to the open
headlights exactly? Were Series 1 (as opposed to 1.5) ever
produced with open headlights? If so, was there a difference
in the Series 1 and Series 1.5 open headlight style?
Sorry for the zillions of questions…–
Clem (aka Roarin’Tom)
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Roarin’Tom sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
From 1967, Jaguar gradually changed the E-type bit-by-bit to cope
with new demands (e.g. safety). The open head lights was one of the
numerous changes and appeared after 1967, AFAIK. The gradual change
makes it difficult to distinguish these cars, therefore the cars
between 1967 (end of S1) and 1969 (start of S2) are referred to as
the ‘‘series one and a half’’ cars.
Perhaps you could check xkedata for an (not so accurate) answer
when the open head ligths appeared.
Andrys.–
The original message included these comments:
When did Jaguar move from the closed headlights to the open
headlights exactly? Were Series 1 (as opposed to 1.5) ever
produced with open headlights? If so, was there a difference
in the Series 1 and Series 1.5 open headlight style?
–
Andrys, '69 e-type 2+2 being rebuilt
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Roarin’Tom sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
Tom if you look at the JCNA guide for Series one E type you can see
the refrences from Jaguar service and spare parts bulletins as to
the start of open headlights as well as exceptions by serial
number. A frequent poster here prepared the guide and it has proved
to be very accurate over the years. Good luck.–
The original message included these comments:
When did Jaguar move from the closed headlights to the open
headlights exactly? Were Series 1 (as opposed to 1.5) ever
–
George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Roarin’Tom sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
Clem,
Quoting Haddock: ‘‘The first version of uncovered headlights (the
low-set type, as used throughout the series I 1/2 production) came
in late 1967, slightly before the series I was discontinued.’’
Cheers,–
The original message included these comments:
When did Jaguar move from the closed headlights to the open
headlights exactly? Were Series 1 (as opposed to 1.5) ever
produced with open headlights? If so, was there a difference
in the Series 1 and Series 1.5 open headlight style?
–
Pim, 67 E-type 4.2 FHC, 68 Sovereign, 78 Sovereign
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
From earlier postings on this subject, I believe the S1 closed headlight and S1.5 open headlight bonnets are the same, the only difference being the sugar scoops used in the S1.5 cars. So you can fit closed headlights to a S1.5 car by changing out the scoops and associated other parts.
Les Halls
Atlanta Ga
'68 S1.5 2+2>
In reply to a message from Roarin’Tom sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
From 1967, Jaguar gradually changed the E-type bit-by-bit to cope
with new demands (e.g. safety). The open head lights was one of the
numerous changes and appeared after 1967, AFAIK. The gradual change
makes it difficult to distinguish these cars, therefore the cars
between 1967 (end of S1) and 1969 (start of S2) are referred to as
the ‘‘series one and a half’’ cars.
Perhaps you could check xkedata for an (not so accurate) answer
when the open head ligths appeared.
Andrys.
The original message included these comments:
When did Jaguar move from the closed headlights to the open
headlights exactly? Were Series 1 (as opposed to 1.5) ever
produced with open headlights? If so, was there a difference
in the Series 1 and Series 1.5 open headlight style?
–
Andrys, '69 e-type 2+2 being rebuilt
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Yes. My all original, never damaged (except by the tin worm) '67 FHC #34251 had open headlamps. I recently had to sell it, but it’s still in the
'hood, which in Northern Michigan means within two counties of you.
Phil
Still with…890540
Were Series 1 (as opposed to 1.5) ever produced with open headlights?
In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
Thanks for the responses guys. That’s news to me Les. I had
no idea - I thought it was a heck of a job to achieve it!–
The original message included these comments:
From earlier postings on this subject, I believe the S1 closed headlight and S1.5 open headlight bonnets are the same, the only difference being the sugar scoops used in the S1.5 cars. So you can fit closed headlights to a S1.5 car by changing out the scoops and associated other parts.
Tom,
I just looked through spare parts bulletins, J37 & the IPL for the 68
MY car and find that the open headlight late S1 cars & the 68 MY car
have the same bonnet center section and wings whereas the closed
headlight cars have different part numbers for these parts along with
the panel that the headlight assembly mounts to. I do not know exactly
what the differences are and for some reason do not see the sugar
scoops listed.
Bob
889076
Plymouth, Mi.On Mar 5, 2009, at 11:02 AM, Roarin’Tom wrote:
In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
Thanks for the responses guys. That’s news to me Les. I had
no idea - I thought it was a heck of a job to achieve it!
The original message included these comments:
From earlier postings on this subject, I believe the S1 closed
headlight and S1.5 open headlight bonnets are the same, the only
difference being the sugar scoops used in the S1.5 cars. So you
can fit closed headlights to a S1.5 car by changing out the scoops
and associated other parts.
In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
Les,
I have a series-1.5 bonnet on my car and I think it is
different from a closed headlight series-1 bonnet as the
headlight openings don’t have the recess needed for the
closed headlight hardware.
Best regards.
John G.–
The original message included these comments:
From earlier postings on this subject, I believe the S1 closed headlight and S1.5 open headlight bonnets are the same, the only difference being the sugar scoops used in the S1.5 cars. So you can fit closed headlights to a S1.5 car by changing out the scoops and associated other parts.
Les Halls
Atlanta Ga
'68 S1.5 2+2
–
John Gadbois '66 2+2
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Stevenson Robert sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
Could it be same size/shape hole but no captive nuts on the first
open headlight cars because the thin edge trim is fixed differently
from the glass trim? I too heard you didn’t actually have to weld
any extra metal in to get the covered light trims to cover the S1.5
hole.
Pete–
68 E-type OTS, 96 X300 XJ12, 94 XJR 5-speed manual
Cambridge, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
Unfortunately, if you want to convert the S1.5 hood to
correctly accept OEM covered headlights, you must do a small
bit of surgery to the headlight aperatures and weld flanges
to the perimeter of same with caged nuts behind them. Once
accomplished that bit is all needed, other than the correct
hardware.
The correct hardware is a roughly $1,200 shopping list that
I am happy to provide. All parts are available for this
conversion from multiple sources, other than the flanges,
which must be fashioned from scratch or taken from a donor car.
Hope that helps…
Randy '68 (headlight converted) OTS–
The original message included these comments:
Could it be same size/shape hole but no captive nuts on the first
open headlight cars because the thin edge trim is fixed differently
from the glass trim? I too heard you didn’t actually have to weld
any extra metal in to get the covered light trims to cover the S1.5
hole.
Pete
In reply to a message from Randall Harris sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
Doh, yeah - I forgot about the recessed flange as well. You can
tell I’ve had a 1, 2 and 3 but never a 1.5…
Pete–
The original message included these comments:
Unfortunately, if you want to convert the S1.5 hood to
correctly accept OEM covered headlights, you must do a small
bit of surgery to the headlight aperatures and weld flanges
–
68 E-type OTS, 96 X300 XJ12, 94 XJR 5-speed manual
Cambridge, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
Jeez, Petey! I thought by now you would’ve owned at least one of
everything, if only for a few days! :-)–
The original message included these comments:
Doh, yeah - I forgot about the recessed flange as well. You can
tell I’ve had a 1, 2 and 3 but never a 1.5…
Pete
–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
I’m working on it Ray, I’m working on it.
Seems like I’m re-writing history from my Triumph days. After a
couple of field bikes I started with a Triumph Tiger Cub, then a
3TA 350cc, then a 500, then a 650, then a 750 - all bought as non-
running clunkers of course…
Pete–
The original message included these comments:
Jeez, Petey! I thought by now you would’ve owned at least one of
everything, if only for a few days!
–
68 E-type OTS, 96 X300 XJ12, 94 XJR 5-speed manual
Cambridge, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Tom,
Jan '67 for North American cars, the other LHD cars probably very soon
afterward. You have that RHD issue tho and as we’ve discovered not as
much info about those. I believe they dropped painting the head in
late '66 or very early '67 but do not have absolute numbers on those.
You might want to go to the JCNA web site and download the S1.5
judging guide. Although it only really addresses North American cars
there is still a lot of applicable info.
pauls 67ots
Guys,
When did Jaguar move from the closed headlights to the open
headlights exactly? Were Series 1 (as opposed to 1.5) ever
produced with open headlights? If so, was there a difference
in the Series 1 and Series 1.5 open headlight style?
Sorry for the zillions of questions…
<<<<<<<<From: “Roarin’Tom” cdaniel@p-t-a.co.za
Subject: [E-Type] Open headlights - from when?
Pim,
I’m surprised Haddock says that, it came in VERY early '67. Porter’s
and others books say it happened in August of '67 IIRC and those are
plain wrong.
pauls 67ots
Clem,
Quoting Haddock: ‘‘The first version of uncovered headlights (the
low-set type, as used throughout the series I 1/2 production) came
in late 1967, slightly before the series I was discontinued.’’
Cheers,
<<<<<<<<<From: “. Pim .” pim@vanderschaafonline.nl
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Open headlights - from when?
In reply to a message from paul spurlock sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
It depends. I have a 1967 OTS 3 SUs, toggle switches and open
headlights 1E14497, but XKE data shows cars before and after mine
with closed headlights.
I’ve had the car since 1975 and don’t believe that the PO modified
the hood. (After this latest in progress restoration, I may
convert the lamps next winter.)–
The original message included these comments:
Quoting Haddock: ''The first version of uncovered headlights (the
low-set type, as used throughout the series I 1/2 production) came
–
Mike Oldak 67 1 1/4 OTS
Bethesda, Maryland, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Randall Harris sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
The Wahlsinn kit wasn’t it?–
The original message included these comments:
The correct hardware is a roughly $1,200 shopping list that
I am happy to provide. All parts are available for this
conversion from multiple sources, other than the flanges,
which must be fashioned from scratch or taken from a donor car.
–
Pim, 67 E-type 4.2 FHC, 68 Sovereign, 78 Sovereign
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from paul spurlock sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
Could it be possible that the open head lights first went on the
cars for the US market while the European market was still served
with the closed head lights?
1E34282 on xkedata is ‘‘noted for being in original condition’’
(although a nut and bolt resoration?!) and has the closed head
lights).
1E34261 (mine; manufactured Febr 9th 1967)) has closed head lights,
which I hope to be original, at least I am quite sure the bonnet is
original.
1E34258 (manufactured Febr 8th 1967) also has the closed head
lights.
These are all European cars.
1E34251 (US car) has open head lights ‘‘The car is an all original,
all complete, series 1 with open headlamps.’’
1E34249 (US car) has closed head lights. According to Haddock this
is the last one with closed head lights, and 1E34250 should have
open head lights.
FWIW,–
The original message included these comments:
I’m surprised Haddock says that, it came in VERY early '67. Porter’s
and others books say it happened in August of '67 IIRC and those are
plain wrong.
–
Pim, 67 E-type 4.2 FHC, 68 Sovereign, 78 Sovereign
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Michael,
The ONLY way to accurately track changes to any car is through the
build records, parts books or spare part bulletins. not XKE Data or
whatever someone says. In the case of the deletion of the headlight
covers Jaguar is very specific as to when this happened as it’s
covered in both the build records and spare parts bulletins which are
listed in the S1 E-Type judging guide. USA and Canadian delivered E-
Types were the first to under go this change & 1E14497 should have had
covered headlights as it’s either 35 or 38 cars before the change. The
reason for not being 100% specific is because the build records and
the spares bulletin disagree by 3 numbers. I find it interesting that
Spares Parts Bulletin that addresses this change also lists some 18
LHD OTS’s US /Canadian spec cars built after the change point that
somehow were not effected.
Bob
889076
Plymouth, Mi.On Mar 5, 2009, at 3:24 PM, Michael Oldak wrote:
In reply to a message from paul spurlock sent Thu 5 Mar 2009:
It depends. I have a 1967 OTS 3 SUs, toggle switches and open
headlights 1E14497, but XKE data shows cars before and after mine
with closed headlights.
I’ve had the car since 1975 and don’t believe that the PO modified
the hood. (After this latest in progress restoration, I may
convert the lamps next winter.)
The original message included these comments:
Quoting Haddock: ''The first version of uncovered headlights (the
low-set type, as used throughout the series I 1/2 production) came
–
Mike Oldak 67 1 1/4 OTS
Bethesda, Maryland, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
