[E-Type] re: Rays comment on " a decent looking coupe on E-bay"

In reply to a message from lectronut sent Sun 15 Nov 2009:

I’m baffled as to why the coupe went for so little. It looked like
a really nice ‘‘driver’’, that could easily be fixed up as a rolling
restoration. And the fact that it went for about the same amount
as that pile of rust in the shape of an OTS is just
incomprehensible.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Sun 15 Nov 2009:

Actually Ray, the ‘‘pile of rust’’ went for a cool $35000, the ‘‘nice’’
FHC went for $15000.
It is possible that the buyer lives on the other side of ‘‘the
Pond’’. E-types in the UK are bringing the same amount in British
pounds as they do here in US dollars. Thats probably the reason
the seller listed it in UK pounds…he was trying to attact the UK
buyer. But even so, I agree (and don’t quite understand…) that
BOTH of the cars were ‘‘WAAAY’’ off their actual value!
In fact it would have made more sense if the prices on the two
vehicles were reversed!
Barry
'71 S2 FHC–
The original message included these comments:

restoration. And the fact that it went for about the same amount
as that pile of rust in the shape of an OTS is just


lectronut
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In reply to a message from lectronut sent Sun 15 Nov 2009:

I was referring to the massively rusted pile (literally) of OTS
parts that sold for about $12K a week or two back.–
The original message included these comments:

Actually Ray, the ‘‘pile of rust’’ went for a cool $35000, the ‘‘nice’’
FHC went for $15000.


Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from lectronut sent Sun 15 Nov 2009:

Hi there,

Yes, I think this has already long been a trend.

Nice E-types that are not Lightweights, OLB early cars or
something special go for too little if they have to be sold.

Terrible piles of rust and basket cases, especially OTS’s go
for way too much.

This has been discussed in here before. The consensus was
that those who buy a driver, get a real deal, and those who
buy a project are not buying a car, but a dream or a legend…

(and will pay accordingly! :wink:

Cheers,
Pekka T. 1E76372BW MOD (from a basket case to a long
distance tourer)–
The original message included these comments:

In fact it would have made more sense if the prices on the two
vehicles were reversed!
Barry
'71 S2 FHC


MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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In reply to a message from ptelivuo sent Mon 16 Nov 2009:

Could also be bad drugs…

:)–
The original message included these comments:

This has been discussed in here before. The consensus was
that those who buy a driver, get a real deal, and those who
buy a project are not buying a car, but a dream or a legend…


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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It almost seems that people are willing to pay as much, or more, for a POS as a driver. Kind of like the stock market, no rational for its behavior.
Larry
Agoura Hills, Ca
61 OTS 64 FHC 3.8— On Sun, 11/15/09, Ray Livingston jagboy@pacbell.net wrote:

From: Ray Livingston jagboy@pacbell.net
Subject: [E-Type] re: Rays comment on " a decent looking coupe on E-bay"
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 9:27 PM
In reply to a message from lectronut
sent Sun 15 Nov 2009:

I’m baffled as to why the coupe went for so little.
It looked like
a really nice ‘‘driver’’, that could easily be fixed up as
a rolling
restoration. And the fact that it went for about the
same amount
as that pile of rust in the shape of an OTS is just
incomprehensible.

Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM
[forums.jag-lovers.org]–


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In reply to a message from Larry Kohler sent Mon 16 Nov 2009:

Think about it - of all cars the E-type is aspirational. That means
it is a dream for many to own one, one day. Every poll that puts it
in the world’s most beautiful car category reinforces its iconic
status. There are millions of men (especially) who spent their
youth fantasising about owning an E-type and living that dream.
Allowing for the incredible, mind-boggling fact (to UK eyes) that
plenty of American college kids or similar bought an E-type as
their first car (?!!!) they have always appealed to more people
than ever got their paws on one.

When they dreamed that dream, far more of those people visualised
themselves driving the corniches of the Cote d’Azure, or sweeping
along Highway 1 through Big Sur with the top down and their arm
around a long-haired beauty with shades and headscarf like Grace
Kelly and lips like (That’s enough fantasising Crespin! Ed.).

The smart drivers with continents to cross have always loved the
hard tops, but far more dreamers lust after an OTS. When those
people eventually get rich enough to start fulfilling their boyhood
aspirations then for many of them only an OTS will do. I hope to
capitalise on this before long by swapping my OTS for a good FHC
plus enough cash to make most of a D-type replica. There is no
logic to it, but supply and demand constraints combined with
aspirational big-ticket discretionary purchases probably encourage
a febrile market.

Pete–
The original message included these comments:

It almost seems that people are willing to pay as much, or more, for a POS as a driver. Kind of like the stock market, no rational for its behavior.


68 E-type OTS, 96 X305 XJ12, 99 Daimler Super V8
Cambridge, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from lectronut sent Sun 15 Nov 2009:

Barry, is the some of parts greater than the whole? Looking at the
prices on the market for parts, one would think, yes. The
difference is that one would receive instant cash for a driver. To
make money on parts would take a long time, and inflation would be
a factor.
Bob 64 OTS–
The original message included these comments:

in my earlier response (see below,) I may be better of
disassembling my newly restored FHC and selling just the parts I
remove from it!
Barry
'71 FHC (IN GOOD RUNNING CONDITION AND AN EXCELLENT DRIVER!)


BobEJag
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In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Sun 15 Nov 2009:

I was so startled by the price of that pile of junk that I called
my wife in to look at it. I don’t remember, did that pile have a
title? What’s an ots title worth to someone that has a hot ots.

I once travelled to California, trailer and all to purchase a 68
ots. It was a real ots, had a California title that said it was
a ‘‘convertable’’ but showed a fhc number on it and the data plate.
BJ.–
britjunkie
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In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Mon 16 Nov 2009:

True enough, but give it time. I can think of two cars of
the same approximate vintage as the E for which the value of
the coupe’ is now greater than that of the roadster.–
The original message included these comments:

The smart drivers with continents to cross have always loved the
hard tops, but far more dreamers lust after an OTS. When those
people eventually get rich enough to start fulfilling their boyhood
aspirations then for many of them only an OTS will do. I hope to


Bob Wilkinson, 72 XJ6
Saint Louis, MO, United States
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Assume on is the MB 300SL–Gull Wing----what is the other-----Italian maybe?---- Robert Wilkinson wilk@wustl.edu wrote:

=============
In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Mon 16 Nov 2009:

True enough, but give it time. I can think of two cars of
the same approximate vintage as the E for which the value of
the coupe’ is now greater than that of the roadster.

The original message included these comments:

The smart drivers with continents to cross have always loved the
hard tops, but far more dreamers lust after an OTS. When those
people eventually get rich enough to start fulfilling their boyhood
aspirations then for many of them only an OTS will do. I hope to


Bob Wilkinson, 72 XJ6
Saint Louis, MO, United States
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I’ll guess Aston Martin… tho they aren’t known for roasters,
the coupes are pricey and really don’t perform better.
pauls 67ots

Assume on is the MB 300SL–Gull Wing----what is the other-----Italian maybe?
<<<<<<<<<From: Tom Felts tomfelts@windstream.net
Subject: Re: [E-Type] re: Rays comment on " a decent looking coupe on E-bay"


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In reply to a message from paul spurlock sent Mon 16 Nov 2009:

But AFAIK the Volantes (i.e. convertibles) fetch even more
astronomical prices.

The MB 300SL is another story and they did not produce them
at the same time, did they? If Jaguar had only produced a
coupe in Series 1 (1961-1967) and then later only a
convertible it could also be the other way.

But I don’t know why the split window Vettes are more
expensive than convertibles, they must be much rarer and
more sought after than, eh?

But I think the E-type must be one of the last sports cars
where the open car was cheaper and lighter than the closed
one. And as for most of you folks practicality is not an
issue, that’s why most go for the most impractical one you
can get. Not me! :wink:

Cheers,
Pekka T. 1E76372BW MOD–
The original message included these comments:

I’ll guess Aston Martin… tho they aren’t known for roasters,
the coupes are pricey and really don’t perform better.
pauls 67ots


MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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In reply to a message from ptelivuo sent Tue 17 Nov 2009:

Today the Porsche Cayman is more expensive than the Porsche
Boxster…–
The original message included these comments:

But I think the E-type must be one of the last sports cars
where the open car was cheaper and lighter than the closed
one. And as for most of you folks practicality is not an
issue, that’s why most go for the most impractical one you
can get. Not me! :wink:
Cheers,
Pekka T. 1E76372BW MOD


MarkII
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In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Mon 16 Nov 2009:

Logic? LOGIC??? Start using logic now, and SOMEONE’s gonna have to
wap up side yer head wif a dead squirrel!

Don’t go gittin’ all left-brainy on us now, Crespin. We’ll hafta
revoke your ‘license to Jag.’

Logic.

snort>:)

The original message included these comments:

aspirations then for many of them only an OTS will do. I hope to
capitalise on this before long by swapping my OTS for a good FHC
plus enough cash to make most of a D-type replica. There is no
logic to it, but supply and demand constraints combined with
aspirational big-ticket discretionary purchases probably encourage
a febrile market.


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


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In reply to a message from ptelivuo sent Tue 17 Nov 2009:

Only made one year, 1963, IIRC.

Still doesn’t make a lot of sense.–
The original message included these comments:

But I don’t know why the split window Vettes are more
expensive than convertibles, they must be much rarer and
more sought after than, eh?


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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Wiggles wrote:

In reply to a message from ptelivuo sent Tue 17 Nov 2009:

Only made one year, 1963, IIRC.

Still doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Story I read was that an engineer fought for the split window design but
the first time he sat in one of them on the production line and looked
in the rear view mirror, he commented, “That thing has got to go!”

Probably why the split rear window was a one year thing unless they were
trying for the rare outside latch phenomenon like Jaguar made.

George Cohn
'70 OTS______________________________________________________
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In reply to a message from George Cohn sent Tue 17 Nov 2009:

Wasn’t the split window a result of their inability to reliabily
make a single piece of glass with such an extreme curvature?–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
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Ray Livingston wrote:

In reply to a message from George Cohn sent Tue 17 Nov 2009:

Wasn’t the split window a result of their inability to reliably
make a single piece of glass with such an extreme curvature?

I never researched the logic behind the split window. I would suspect
that it was a design thing as every version of the “Sting Ray” coupe
after that had a one piece rear window.

george Cohn
'70 OTS______________________________________________________
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In reply to a message from George Cohn sent Tue 17 Nov 2009:

As a general principle, there’s got to be an engineering or
cost reason behind early split windows. Many early cars
besides the Corvette had them. Think VW Beetle. And of
course many had the same thing with the windscreen. No one
(possibly with rare exception) will logically put a piece of
metal down the centre of an aperture intended expressly for
the driver to be able to see what is in front of or behind
him unless there is a technical or cost reason for this.
Possibly there were reasons associated with windscreens as
opposed to rear windows, Whether it had something to do with
curvature I am not sure about because my Series Land Rovers
have plain flat glass windscreens which could easily
accomodate a single sheet of flat glass but for the fact
that again there is metal strip down the centre dividing it
into two.–
The original message included these comments:

Wasn’t the split window a result of their inability to reliably
make a single piece of glass with such an extreme curvature?
I never researched the logic behind the split window. I would suspect
that it was a design thing as every version of the ‘‘Sting Ray’’ coupe
after that had a one piece rear window.


Clem
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