Hi all, this is a continuation of the ‘‘R’’ word topic, I just
wanted to get many involved here… short story is that I
want/need to replace the rocker panel cap by the battery. I
have never done this and wanted to know about any hints,
secrets, gotchas, or experience from those who have done it.
In particular there is a lip folded over one part of this
panel and I don’t know if it’s welded there or glued there
or ???
Thanks,
Lester–
'66 XKE FHC Running but NOT stopping!
Louisiana, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
UGHH… I hate spot welds…
Maybe it’s time for me to buy a spot welder! Any ideas which
one to get?
As to the connections I see:
arc to the rocker panel
flange from the electrics section over the top
butt flange from the bulkhead side
bolts going through it from a frame piece
Lester
Thanks paul… keep those answers coming…–
The original message included these comments:
Well, I know this much: there are NO glued-in panels in a
stock E-Type tub. It’s all spot or seam welded, the vast
majority being spot welds. ]
Buy MANY spot weld drills!
–
'66 XKE FHC Running but NOT stopping!
Louisiana, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from saabguy sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
You AIN’t gunna like an E-type, then!
If you want a good spot welder, do NOT buy a cheepie:
Eastwood’s is prolly the best available for a reasonable
price. Anyway, Eastwood and you are going to become close,
personal friends…
:):)–
The original message included these comments:
UGHH… I hate spot welds…
Maybe it’s time for me to buy a spot welder! Any ideas which
one to get?
–
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
Yer killin’ me here man… Off to Eastwood’s site I go…
Lester–
The original message included these comments:
You AIN’t gunna like an E-type, then!
If you want a good spot welder, do NOT buy a cheepie:
Eastwood’s is prolly the best available for a reasonable
price. Anyway, Eastwood and you are going to become close,
personal friends…
:)
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
–
'66 XKE FHC Running but NOT stopping!
Louisiana, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from saabguy sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
No body panels are ‘glued’ on an E Type except for the
bonnet duct and diaphragm brackets, which are bonded.
The front sill end closing panel would be very difficult to
replace just by itself without removing the sill because it
is spot welded all around, and that would require the sill
to be installed afterwards.
It is spot welded to the rectangular foot well panel, the
horizontal panel under the regulator, and inside, to the
frame reinforcing bracket where the frame bolts up and then
finally, to the sill.
The sloping folded lip on the top of the panel is merely to
stiffen an otherwise raw edge. To do anything like this
properly, you’d really need to remove the sill.–
The original message included these comments:
Hi all, this is a continuation of the ‘‘R’’ word topic, I just
wanted to get many involved here… short story is that I
want/need to replace the rocker panel cap by the battery. I
have never done this and wanted to know about any hints,
secrets, gotchas, or experience from those who have done it.
In particular there is a lip folded over one part of this
panel and I don’t know if it’s welded there or glued there
or ???
Thanks,
Lester
–
Clive, '62 Coupe 860320
Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from saabguy sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
Lester, that end cap, as pretty much all the seams in the E
are spot welded. You need first to become proficient in just
finding the little devils, because they lurk beneath all the
paint and rust. They are usually quite apparent after using
a power wire brush, because the small dimple is usually
obvious. However, rust can render them almost invisible, so
some guessing is in order! Buy yourself a good quality tool
to drill out the spot welds.I have just fitted/replaced many
panels on my SII, and used a MIG welder to make plug welds.
The MIG is probably more versatile than the spot welder,
which undoubtedly is much faster.–
The original message included these comments:
want/need to replace the rocker panel cap by the battery. I
have never done this and wanted to know about any hints,
secrets, gotchas, or experience from those who have done it.
In particular there is a lip folded over one part of this
panel and I don’t know if it’s welded there or glued there
Lester
'66 XKE FHC Running but NOT stopping!
–
John M Holmes 1973 E Type SIII Supra 5Sp, 70 SII OTS 05XJ8L
Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
Ok, that’s not even funny! The good news is that I have a
nice Hobart Mig Welder but the bad news is that it is not
something that I can plug into to make a spot welder so fake
spot welds here I come!
I’m about to reach my limit on parts tho’, when I get the
brake bits then I’ll have the cooling taken care of, the
fuel system taken care of, braking system taken care of, all
hydraulics replaced (except for some hard lines), the tach
conversion, and all other electrical seems good… then I
can finally install my NEONs and 22’s!!
Lester–
The original message included these comments:
Did we mention that, when the tool bill matches or exceeds
the parts bill, you’re nearly ready to commence a full resto?
:):)
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
–
'66 XKE FHC Running but NOT stopping!
Louisiana, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from saabguy sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
Lester,
I can probably help you with this, though others may not agree with
my ‘‘short cut’’. I have this panel removed from my car. If I can
find any photos I will post them later once they are approved. As
you’ve already been told, the panel is spot welded on all sides. If
you plan to replace the outer sill, spot welding or plug welding
(reproducing a spot weld appearance with MIG welds) would be the
right approach. Even if your existing outer sill is in good shape
and you plan to repaint it this would be the way to do it. However,
if, like me, you don’t want to touch the external panels/paintword
as I can’t afford to redo the passable exterior, but still replace
the sill end panel then you could do what I plan to do (though you
may flamed as I’m about to be :-). I plan to spot weld the panel on
the sides where I can do so with my cheapo spot welder, seam or
plug weld the top side where I can’t spot weld it, and (gasp!) bond
it to the curved face of the outer sill using metal bonding
adhesive. This will not be as strong as welding, but I hope it will
be good enough. The panel that I am replacing was not attached to
the outer sill at all - there was a gap of about 1/8’’ there! The
outer sill had been replaced by a previous owner, and not attached
to the sill original end panel. Panel bonding requires a good deal
of preparation to ensure a good fit, and clean mating surfaces, but
is less work than repainting the whole car! Now, let the flames
begin…
-David–
davidxk '56 XK-140 OTS, '69 XKE OTS , '98 XK8
Monterey CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from davidxk sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
‘‘I plan to spot weld the panel on the sides where I can do
so with my cheapo spot welder, seam or plug weld the top
side where I can’t spot weld it, and (gasp!) bond it to the
curved face of the outer sill using metal bonding adhesive.
This will not be as strong as welding, but I hope it will be
good enough.’’
No flaming here: anyone who’d do so doesn’t understand the
strength of a properly epoxied seam. I know Lotus, F1, and
the aeroplane industry sure does!
I glued the replacement sill onto Tweety, using aircraft
industry-spec’d epoxy and it is juust fine!
I used joddled and dimpled (for steel location rivets)
seams along the remaining good upper lip of the stock panel,
and then glued on the replacement sill.
Done right, gluing seams works quite passably. As always,
PREPARATION is king.–
The original message included these comments:
to the sill original end panel. Panel bonding requires a good deal
of preparation to ensure a good fit, and clean mating surfaces, but
is less work than repainting the whole car! Now, let the flames
begin…
–
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
Oh Boy!!
I think we need a separate section of the forum for these
bodgers so they don’t corrupt the unwary.
‘‘No flaming here: anyone who’d do so doesn’t
understand the strength of a properly epoxied
seam. I know Lotus, F1, and the aeroplane
industry sure does!’’
It took American Aviation a lot of experimentation with
curing times and temperatures before they were able to glue
the AA series of aircraft together without failures.–
The original message included these comments:
I glued the replacement sill onto Tweety, using aircraft
–
Clive, '62 Coupe 860320
Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Clive Wilkinson sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
Clive, I think it has to do with how much strength is needed
in the joint, i.e., how much stress the glued in place joint
is subjected to.
Gluing the vertical stabilizer of an A 320 is probably more
demanding than an E Type sill.
I repaired my TR3 lf fender by gluing a part of a newer fender
to it back in 1972, and it hasn’t cracked surprisingly
enough.I didn’t want to warp the large flat area by welding.–
The original message included these comments:
It took American Aviation a lot of experimentation with
curing times and temperatures before they were able to glue
the AA series of aircraft together without failures.
In reply to a message from michaelmoore sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
Mike,
I was actually referring to the American/Grumman 2 and
four-seat airplanes because I had one for ten years. They
used epoxy to eliminate the wind resistance of thousands of
rivets, which helped their speed. And, I learned about the
early development trouble they had with the process. They
still had some fall apart.
Besides, I’m sure Airbus and Grumman American have better
facilities than Wiggler’s barn.–
Clive, '62 Coupe 860320
Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from saabguy sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
Lester, that end cap, as pretty much all the seams in the E
are spot welded. You need first to become proficient in just
finding the little devils, because they lurk beneath all the
paint and rust. They are usually quite apparent after using
a power wire brush, because the small dimple is usually
obvious. However, rust can render them almost invisible, so
some guessing is in order! Buy yourself a good quality tool
to drill out the spot welds.
The lister I loaned my spot welder to has one and he can attest to the
fact that it will remove spot welds as fast as you can move from one to
another.
In reply to a message from Clive Wilkinson sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
Yes, they do: I also assume you are cognizant that I was, in
NO way, asserting my ‘barn’ glue joints were structural, in
toto. Where I did it, the combination of steel rivets,
upset into countersunk dimples, PLUS the epoxy is entirely
adequate for the intended purpose. I stand by that statment,
by dint of successful joint gluing on a number of lightly
stressed structural panels. Remember, Clive, you said I
‘could not’ hand sand my car w/o leaving finger marks in it,
too: I did and it didn’t!
Were I gluing together an RV-4 or a Lancair, I think I’d
have different advice for another RV’er!
:)–
The original message included these comments:
facilities than Wiggler’s barn.
–
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
Sorry Wiggler, you’re fluffing again.
No glue joints on any RV4s. They are totally riveted. I’m
well acquainted with airplane construction.
And the early Lancairs I that I looked at at Oshkosh years
ago had worse bodges than some folks here would like to
perpetrate.–
The original message included these comments:
Were I gluing together an RV-4 or a Lancair, I think I’d
have different advice for another RV’er!
–
Clive, '62 Coupe 860320
Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Clive Wilkinson sent Mon 22 Jun 2009:
Not sure what ‘fluffing’ is, but I’ve seen a guy here in
town who utilized 3M epoxy on some of the cockit panels on
his RV-4. I too, am well aware of how experimental planes
are built, Clive, and have assisted in the building of a
few. I hope you’re not accusing me of lying…
As for bodges on Lancairs, well, none I’ve ever seen were in
any way bodged. If they were, it was surely the builder’s
fault and not Lancairs.–
The original message included these comments:
Sorry Wiggler, you’re fluffing again.
No glue joints on any RV4s. They are totally riveted. I’m
well acquainted with airplane construction.
And the early Lancairs I that I looked at at Oshkosh years
ago had worse bodges than some folks here would like to
perpetrate.
–
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
