[E-Type] S3: 4sp -> 5sp manual

Now that my car is running so nicely with its EFI engine,
the shortcoming of the 4sp is just more pronounced.

One way to solve the problem is throwing the credit card at
it but I do wonder what it takes to physically convert a 4sp
to a 5sp (or even 6sp)?

Is it that complicated / expensive?

Best regards
Philip–
'71 E-type V12 OTS '87 DD6 '80XJS:http://tinyurl.com/cqyeec
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from jagwit sent Thu 8 Apr 2010:

Expensive…yes.

Complicated? Depends on how you wish to go. In my opinion, it
appears that the best way to go, American side of the pond, is Paul
Cangliosi’s kit. It can be done for around $3000, if you do all the
work and use a core 'box and rebuild it yourself. Complete kits,
IIRC, are in the neighborhood of $6000. I’ve yet to get a chance to
drive a Jag w/ a Tremec but I have driven plenty of Mustangs and
Camaros and it is a wonderful 'box. Those on here who’ve done it
concur.

On the Brit side of the puddle, the ETF 'box seems to be the bee’s
knees.–
The original message included these comments:

Now that my car is running so nicely with its EFI engine,
the shortcoming of the 4sp is just more pronounced.


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from jagwit sent Thu 8 Apr 2010:

It’s not really more complicated than doing a clutch job.
If you think that’s complicated, then this will be too.
Expensive? Pretty much depending on how deep your pockets
go. There are several different solutions out there,
Classic Jaguar, Medatronics, and E-Type Fabs come to mind.
If I had the scratch I’d be on one like flies on sherbet.
I’m starting to hate my Moss. Never thought it would happen
but it did.–
Eric MaLossi 64 3.8 OTS
Austin,TX, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from Eric MaLossi sent Thu 8 Apr 2010:

But… but… Eric, the Moss has that classic feel, that
distinctive, oh-so romantic first gear, unsynchronized whine, plus,
with a modern gearbox, you’ll never get to master the real man’s
art of the double clutch. W/O a Moss 'box, a Jag loses something.

And so do your biceps. I’m with ya…!–
The original message included these comments:

If I had the scratch I’d be on one like flies on sherbet.


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from Eric MaLossi sent Thu 8 Apr 2010:

Philip:

About four years ago my friend Bill and I installed a couple of
CJ�s to our series III. We did it with the engine in situ
drilling the bellhousing. He�s got a lift in his garage, knew what
to do and took about 6 hours each.–
Pepe
Lakewood/ Colorado, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

Speaking of that…

And way off topic…

One of the endearing features of my F-Cars is that they use straight-
cut (spur) gears in the ‘drop gears’. (Drop gears being a series of
three gears which transmit motion from the crankshaft diagonally down
to the gearbox - which is UNDER the engine.)

http://www.aubard.us/Mondial/HPIM1433.JPG

The cool part is that when cold, the drop gears whine and sound oh so menacingly mechanical. What a treat. We are sick puppies.

-rick> From: Wiggles vrooomie@fastmail.fm

But… but… Eric, the Moss has that classic feel, that

distinctive, oh-so romantic first gear, unsynchronized whine, plus,
with a modern gearbox, you’ll never get to master the real man’s
art of the double clutch. W/O a Moss 'box, a Jag loses something…


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

I put a 5-speed in mine. Lots of work, plus the speedometer has to be recalibrated. But I love it.
LLoyd

Wherever space and time interact, there is information, and wherever information can be ordered into knowledge, and knowledge can be applied, there is intelligence.
Pavel Mirsky, mid 21st Century Russian General----- Original Message -----
From: “jagwit” philip@gpltel.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thursday, April 8, 2010 12:09:20 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [E-Type] S3: 4sp -> 5sp manual

Now that my car is running so nicely with its EFI engine,
the shortcoming of the 4sp is just more pronounced.

One way to solve the problem is throwing the credit card at
it but I do wonder what it takes to physically convert a 4sp
to a 5sp (or even 6sp)?

Is it that complicated / expensive?

Best regards
Philip

'71 E-type V12 OTS '87 DD6 '80XJS:http://tinyurl.com/cqyeec
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from Rick Lindsay sent Thu 8 Apr 2010:

Well, get the album of ‘‘Sports Car in Hi-Fi,’’ by David
Scott-Moncrieff, ca. 1965. On it is the recording a pre-war
V-12 Delage, with the quad overhead cams driven by an entire
tower of gears.

You’ll need a drool cup if you think the F-car whines…:wink:

This album:

http://www.dadsstyle.com/valvebounce/2009/03/sports-cars-in-hifi.html

…has the bracing sounds of a DKW…:)–
The original message included these comments:

The cool part is that when cold, the drop gears whine and sound oh so menacingly mechanical. What a treat. We are sick puppies.


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

Wiggles wrote:

In reply to a message from Eric MaLossi sent Thu 8 Apr 2010:

But… but… Eric, the Moss has that classic feel, that
distinctive, oh-so romantic first gear, unsynchronized whine, plus,
with a modern gearbox, you’ll never get to master the real man’s
art of the double clutch. W/O a Moss 'box, a Jag loses something.

BS! I like the feel of my sychro S2 box but if I had my 'druthers, a
Cangliosi 5 speed would replace it in a heartbeat. Now if I could
figure out where the money to pay Uncle Sam for the income tax was
coming from…

George Cohn
'70 OTS______________________________________________________
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from George Cohn sent Thu 8 Apr 2010:

Hehehe, Geo: I guess we also need a ‘tongue in cheek’
emoticon! I was being a smartarse, reflecting some views
that have been stated about that POS moss 'box before.

as for Unca Sam…you could sell your body, maybe…;)–
The original message included these comments:

BS! I like the feel of my sychro S2 box but if I had my 'druthers, a


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Thu 8 Apr 2010:

I have the Tremec TKO500 5 speed in my XJS and it is very
pleasant. Very short and precise shifts. Does whine a bit
in the lower gears but 4th and 5th are very quiet.

I’m thinking, perhaps I should convert the XJS back to auto
and drop the Tremec into the E…

Best regards
Philip–
The original message included these comments:

IIRC, are in the neighborhood of $6000. I’ve yet to get a chance to
drive a Jag w/ a Tremec but I have driven plenty of Mustangs and


'71 E-type V12 OTS '87 DD6 '80XJS:http://tinyurl.com/cqyeec
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from jagwit sent Thu 8 Apr 2010:

Also, ‘‘any old 5sp’’ may not yield the desired result anyway.
I’ve heard of Toyota Cressida gearboxes being used but they
have a .85 5th. This would bring about a 450rpm drop in 5th

  • still not enough for me because instead of doing 3100rpm
    at 75mph, I’ll be doing 2650 rpm. OK, its much better but
    the XJS is quite happy to cruise up and down our hills in
    5th while doing 75Mph @ 2000rpm with its .68 5th.

With the E being lighter (and less wind resistance?) it
should be even happier. And then economy should be top drawer!!

I also find the 4sp 1st has too low a ratio. When I was
doing hard acceleration runs for my youtube video, I was
sure I saw 80km/h (50mph) when it was time to shift to 2nd.
For the best 0-60 times, don’t you want that closer to
60km/h, so that one will reach the power band in 2nd sooner
(but not run out of the power band in 2nd either?)

Best regards
Philip–
'71 E-type V12 OTS '87 DD6 '80XJS:http://tinyurl.com/cqyeec
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from jagwit sent Thu 8 Apr 2010:

A 1971 V-12 OTS?? I thought the first year V-12’s were all 2+2’s!
and I have a 71 V-12 and a 68 ots with the JT5 boxes that Paul
makes.
If you do it you will love it, it changes the whole car for the
better, I think it is the best single improvment to an E-type.

I had a Jaguar only shop put mine in, but was told they were not
complicated.

with the new 5-speeds and your tires and wheels on then send your
speedo off for recalibration and O/H and mine a spot on with my GPS.–
daniel serrato
columbus ga. usa, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from daniel serrato sent Fri 9 Apr 2010:

Very few were built. There were no 2+2’s built in 74.–
The original message included these comments:

A 1971 V-12 OTS?? I thought the first year V-12’s were all 2+2’s!


Matt 1973 OTS
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from daniel serrato sent Fri 9 Apr 2010:

Manufactured 5 Nov 1971 in black (its white now) according
to my JDHT certificate.

Best regards
Philip–
The original message included these comments:

A 1971 V-12 OTS?? I thought the first year V-12’s were all 2+2’s!


'71 E-type V12 OTS '87 DD6 '80XJS:http://tinyurl.com/cqyeec
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Thu 8 Apr 2010:

Yeah, I think I may have espoused something similar to this
once, but that was another life ago. My biceps are at this
point not much bigger than my forearm and I just don’t need
the workout. Pushing the clutch once to shift is a major
commitment, but twice…OOTQ.–
The original message included these comments:

But… but… Eric, the Moss has that classic feel, that
distinctive, oh-so romantic first gear, unsynchronized whine, plus,
with a modern gearbox, you’ll never get to master the real man’s
art of the double clutch. W/O a Moss 'box, a Jag loses something.
And so do your biceps. I’m with ya…!


Eric MaLossi 64 3.8 OTS
Austin,TX, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

If anyone is going to install a new B&B spring pressure plate, resist the temptation to go to a heavy duty PP. Don’t ask.
Larry
Agoura Hills, Ca
61 OTS 64 FHC 3.8----- Original Message ----
From: Eric MaLossi emalossi@austin.rr.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Sat, April 10, 2010 9:33:49 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] S3: 4sp -> 5sp manual

In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Thu 8 Apr 2010:

Yeah, I think I may have espoused something similar to this
once, but that was another life ago. My biceps are at this
point not much bigger than my forearm and I just don’t need
the workout. Pushing the clutch once to shift is a major
commitment, but twice…OOTQ.

The original message included these comments:

But… but… Eric, the Moss has that classic feel, that
distinctive, oh-so romantic first gear, unsynchronized whine, plus,
with a modern gearbox, you’ll never get to master the real man’s
art of the double clutch. W/O a Moss 'box, a Jag loses something.
And so do your biceps. I’m with ya…!


Eric MaLossi 64 3.8 OTS
Austin,TX, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from Larry Kohler sent Sat 10 Apr 2010:

non-habit forming, ain’t it? the PP in Tweety was replaced
with a heavy duty one for racing, plus a solid center,
sintered bronze clutch disc. On top of the lousy damn Moss
'box, driving Tweety is less than, ah…relaxing.–
The original message included these comments:

If anyone is going to install a new B&B spring pressure plate, resist the temptation to go to a heavy duty PP. Don’t ask.


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Sat 10 Apr 2010:

Philip,
just to bring the thread back on track…

If ‘‘motorway speed’’ revs are the problem,

1/ Have you considered changing the diff ratio instead? The v12 has
plenty of torque at low revs and 2.88 boxes are plentiful;

2/ Also there are plenty of Jag overdrive gearboxes out there. It’s
a drop-in replacement for you as the s3 car has the long tail
gearbox - exactly the same length as the compact type A laycock
overdrive. Everything would be the same except for an electrically
switched overdrive gear. If you do this, make sure you get a box
with the slave cylinder mounting bosses, i.e. one that came equiped
for a v12 originally.

Cost? - probably a nil sum gain if you sell the original box.

kind regards
Marek–
dogdog
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from dogdog sent Sat 10 Apr 2010:

Good point, Marek: our own Mizz Ginger did exactly that with
hers and is very pleased with that, and if MOD 'boxes are
still reasonably priced, that would make it ‘‘all Jag.’’–
The original message included these comments:

1/ Have you considered changing the diff ratio instead? The v12 has
plenty of torque at low revs and 2.88 boxes are plentiful;
2/ Also there are plenty of Jag overdrive gearboxes out there. It’s
a drop-in replacement for you as the s3 car has the long tail
gearbox - exactly the same length as the compact type A laycock
overdrive. Everything would be the same except for an electrically


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php