In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Fri 3 Mar 2006:
The U.S. Army is a dangerous place to be right now. This is not
the same world we grew up in,things have changed. When my oldest
son was being picked on by a bully in school, I told him to stand
up for him self or the kid would never stop. A couple days latter
that kid got arrested for having a gun in his locker. Thankfully
my son realized I was just out of touch with the world as it is now
and he is still alive. I would never advocate a policy like that
when the modern worlds values are changing so fast. Our military is
being used like a police force. No thanks!
Dan Myers
The original message included these comments:
I'm with you. I've thought for a looooong time that mandatory
military service would be a good thing for the country as a whole.
–
trdanny
white lake, mi, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
I’m also a brit ex pat…and have to disagree with the notion that
it’s someone else’s responsibility (in this case the army) to inject
discipline into young people, other than the bloody parents.
People aren’t born with the knowledge that there are rules to be observed,
and respect and trust to be earned…and the right way to learn that
is through their parents, and from a very young age.
“Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man”
If it’s not imbedded in the kids at a young age, you can forget it.
Les.
The original message included these comments:
I’m a expat Brit and as one guy said on that forum, the
abolition of National Service seemed to be the starting
point for all this hooliganism.
When I was an apprentice, I remember the bad bully boy type
guys would go away for their two years in the army or
whatever but come back totally reformed.
In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Fri 3 Mar 2006:
People aren’t born with the knowledge that there
are rules to be observed.
I’m not sure that’s quite right. Plenty of folks seem to
have built-in morals and ethics from a young age regardless
of any outside influence or aquired beliefs.
Even animals don’t normally do wanton damage or vandalism
and can often be observed to conduct themselves with a
certain dignity.
And I certainly didn’t suggest that I thought military
sevice would correct the problem today -but it seemed to do
some good at the time.
I’ve witnessed my painstaking restoration work being
attacked by vandals in the street back in the UK. Two girls
even, kicking in the side of a Lotus I’d just finished
rebuilding. I didn’t know them and have no idea why they
would’ve done it, other than some sort of warped resentment
against someone perceived as being better off.–
Clive, '62 Coupe
Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Dick,
Do not wish to drag out this thread but the tone of your post nails the real problem IMHO. For whatever reason folks have lost the ability contemplate the consequenses of their actions. You used the word “mindlessness” and I fear that is the root of of a great deal of evil in the world. The other half of the problem is a total loss of respect for their fellow man. Don’t know if that can be filed under “upbringing” or not but these are learned traits.
pauls 67ots
Keith
No offense but God help them if I were on that jury. I agree with you that
an insanity plea would probably be entered but the sheer mindlessness of
this atrocity cannot be blamed on cerebral malfunction, deficient
upbringing, childhood sexual mistreatment by extraterrestrial aliens or any
of the other convenient “it ain’t my fault because of (enter blame
transference excuse here)” defenses. …
I’ve always felt that the natural tendency of our species is evry well
reflected in very small children. Their singular aim is to have what they
want/when they want, which is usually now…and they have no innate
internal mechanism that tells them to be respectful, kind, considerate of
others etc.
Without structure, rules and discipline, we let loose that uncorrected
“little jerk” but now in the mind and body of an adult…result =
Big Jerk.
As far as the comment below goes…I think you hit the nail on the
head…we both know that in the UK there is this notion among the idiots
of the population that goodie “x” must be owned by someone more well off
than they are, therefore they must be punished for their better life by
having their possesions destroyed…the apparent downtrodden sticking it
to “the man”.
I’ve witnessed my painstaking restoration work being
attacked by vandals in the street back in the UK. Two girls
even, kicking in the side of a Lotus I’d just finished
rebuilding. I didn’t know them and have no idea why they
would’ve done it, other than some sort of warped resentment
against someone perceived as being better off.
In reply to a message from paul spurlock sent Fri 3 Mar 2006:
Paul,
I don’t think they are ‘mindless’ because they know well what
they’re doing which is wanton vandalism, they do it because they
know that nothing will be done if they are caught and thats the
problem there is NO deterrent anymore.
To be honest look at it from their point of view they don’t have
any interest in a bunch of old cars, if they Mitsubishi Evo’s or
Scooby’s then they would look on in awe then smash them up but a
bunch of old cars in a large lock up where they could run them
round like go karts that must be everyones idea of fantastic fun,
if it were legal I’d love to have a go, not with classic cars mind
you I’d have more respect but they haven’t and thats it.
Tonight they will be talking about it with there mates and now
looking for something else to do thats fun and a bit different.
Dave–
The original message included these comments:
Dick,
Do not wish to drag out this thread but the tone of your post nails the real problem IMHO. For whatever reason folks have lost the ability contemplate the consequenses of their actions. You used the word ‘‘mindlessness’’ and I fear that is the root of of a great deal of evil in the world. The other half of the problem is a total loss of respect for their fellow man. Don’t know if that can be filed under ‘‘upbringing’’ or not but these are learned traits.
pauls 67ots
–
'61 OTS, I’ll do work to keep it running
Pershore, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Dave K sent Fri 3 Mar 2006:
Since George hasn’t put the ‘‘kaibosh’’ on this thread yet and
this sort of thing always begs the ‘‘why’’ question, I guess
I’ll chime in from my own knowledge of human behavior.
First, the newest studies on the influences of juvenile
behavior point to peer groups being much more important in
shaping behavior than parental influence especially in modern
society where parental control is (for good or bad) more
limited. Group mentality and tribalism is evident everywhere
(from sports to states to nations and religious groups) and
the cement that hold these groups together need not be
rational at all as long as it serves as a bonding agent.
Parents today can exert all the control they want and model
proper, ethical, behavior and still lose their kids to a ‘‘bad
bunch’’ they are involved with. Blaming the parent in this day
and age is a bit archaic but they still should of course
share some sort of repsonsibility. This kind of vandalism
would rarely be carried out by a single person, its takes the
fervent group mentality to create the mindlessness everyone
is mentioning (look around the world, folks). I quite agree
we are born with a decent amount of ethical behavior which
needs to be nutured as well as the social norms and laws
which must be taught. As far as ‘‘consequences’’, these types
of groups are not really going to be concerned about a 1 year
vs. 10 years jail sentence. Those of you with more than 1
offsring surely know that some kids when growing up respond
very well to consequences and some don’t, it varies all over
the place. Once the group mentality comes into play, nobody
ever thinks about consequences. The other factor many have
mentioned is the ‘‘haves’’ vs. the ‘‘have not’’ factor which has
always been important in human group dynamics and will always
be a problem when rich and poor are in close contact (what
else would one expect?). So what’s the ‘‘answer’’? Hellifiknow
except let your kids see the senselessness of people like
this, keep them away from these kinds of groups, realize that
not everyone has control over their destiny, adopt a
universal, intelligent ehtical system not based in dogma (but
not ‘‘relative’’ either), and by all means protect your
property! Now…I’ve got this one sticking valve I need to…–
The original message included these comments:
they’re doing which is wanton vandalism, they do it because they
know that nothing will be done if they are caught and thats the
problem there is NO deterrent anymore.
–
Mike King '72 2+2
Phoenix, Az., United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Well—let’s put it this way. If a kid of mine tried anything like this I
would personally take him out behind the barn and kick the crap out of
him----PC and alleged child abuse be damned. And, you know what----they
would know before hand that I would do that and would think damned hard
before doing it. I agree on the crowd influence, but i also feel there is
a major lack of parental control and discipline these days. It is almost
as if the parents are afraid to say anything to the kids. How many times
have you seen parents beg and plead for the kid to stop doing something
while the kid just laughs and keeps doing it. Not in my house.
In reply to a message from Dave K sent Fri 3 Mar 2006:
Since George hasn’t put the ‘‘kaibosh’’ on this thread yet and
this sort of thing always begs the ‘‘why’’ question, I guess
I’ll chime in from my own knowledge of human behavior.
First, the newest studies on the influences of juvenile
behavior point to peer groups being much more important in
shaping behavior than parental influence especially in modern
society where parental control is (for good or bad) more
limited. Group mentality and tribalism is evident everywhere
(from sports to states to nations and religious groups) and
the cement that hold these groups together need not be
rational at all as long as it serves as a bonding agent.
Parents today can exert all the control they want and model
proper, ethical, behavior and still lose their kids to a ‘‘bad
bunch’’ they are involved with. Blaming the parent in this day
and age is a bit archaic but they still should of course
share some sort of repsonsibility. This kind of vandalism
would rarely be carried out by a single person, its takes the
fervent group mentality to create the mindlessness everyone
is mentioning (look around the world, folks). I quite agree
we are born with a decent amount of ethical behavior which
needs to be nutured as well as the social norms and laws
which must be taught. As far as ‘‘consequences’’, these types
of groups are not really going to be concerned about a 1 year
vs. 10 years jail sentence. Those of you with more than 1
offsring surely know that some kids when growing up respond
very well to consequences and some don’t, it varies all over
the place. Once the group mentality comes into play, nobody
ever thinks about consequences. The other factor many have
mentioned is the ‘‘haves’’ vs. the ‘‘have not’’ factor which has
always been important in human group dynamics and will always
be a problem when rich and poor are in close contact (what
else would one expect?). So what’s the ‘‘answer’’? Hellifiknow
except let your kids see the senselessness of people like
this, keep them away from these kinds of groups, realize that
not everyone has control over their destiny, adopt a
universal, intelligent ehtical system not based in dogma (but
not ‘‘relative’’ either), and by all means protect your
property! Now…I’ve got this one sticking valve I need to…
The original message included these comments:
they’re doing which is wanton vandalism, they do it because they
know that nothing will be done if they are caught and thats the
problem there is NO deterrent anymore.
–
Mike King '72 2+2
Phoenix, Az., United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from tom felts sent Sat 4 Mar 2006:
BRAVO!!! Couldn’t agree more, Tom!! When I pinched a
customer’s 914 and went for a joy ride, my normally VERY
gentle and passive dad went postal on me…and I never did
anything so idiotic after…and, I’m none the worse for the
(well-deserved) drubbing that lil’ bit of puerile lunacy
earned me!–
The original message included these comments:
Well—let’s put it this way. If a kid of mine tried anything like this I
would personally take him out behind the barn and kick the crap out of
him----PC and alleged child abuse be damned. And, you know what----they
would know before hand that I would do that and would think damned hard
before doing it. I agree on the crowd influence, but I also feel there is
a major lack of parental control and discipline these days. It is almost
as if the parents are afraid to say anything to the kids. How many times
have you seen parents beg and plead for the kid to stop doing something
while the kid just laughs and keeps doing it. Not in my house.
–
Paul Wigton, '60 DKW 1000SP, '55 DKW Sonderklasse, Tweety!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Small benefit - got a real education on Brit colloquialisms from the forum
link that came with this thread
dolescum, dregs, mindless w’rs
‘drop a sprog to get a house’ chav mentality
worthless Elizabeth Duke gold wearing scrotes,
Law abiding that is until you do 34 in a 30 zone and get you arse kicked,
while the chavs as mentioned above are bombing round in a modded blingin
Nova, innit with no number plates on.
they deserve to have their nuts whisked off
Mike
68 S1 OTS
Toronto
Here’s some things I’d do to these thugs. Find out what item each one
owns
that they absolutely love and smash it to pieces while they watch-----then
make them do the community time—then make them pay for the damage!!
Sad news from the Classic Jaguar Site. My thoughts and prayers go
out to the Terry Family.
November 16, 2008
I am very sad to have to report that my friend Trent Terry passed
away yesterday evening. After waging a valiant battle for life
following a terrible motorcycle accident on June 22, Trent never
fully regained consciousness and started slipping away from us a
couple of weeks ago. His family and loved ones have been by his
side from the beginning and my heart aches for them.
Anyone who knew this vibrant, charismatic young man knows that his
life was lived in the fast lane, both literally and figuratively.
On a personal note, I take comfort from the fact that Trent,
perhaps more than anyone I know, would not have wanted to live the
way this cruel accident left him. I prefer to remember my friend as
the gifted racing driver he was, with lightening reflexes and
absolutely no fear.
I am proud to have known him, I am proud that he was my friend, I
am proud to have watched him race, and I am proud to have shared
many a drink with him. I will miss him dearly but I will never
forget him.
Dan Mooney–
Dale McKey / 69’ E-Type FHC
Prairieville / Louisiana, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Dale McKey sent Sun 16 Nov 2008:
Dale,
I am very sorry to see he passed, I extend my sincere sympathies to
the Terry family and friends.
Matt Accettullo–
The original message included these comments:
Sad news from the Classic Jaguar Site. My thoughts and prayers go
out to the Terry Family.
November 16, 2008
I am very sad to have to report that my friend Trent Terry passed
away yesterday evening. After waging a valiant battle for life
Dan Mooney
Dale McKey / 69’ E-Type FHC
Prairieville / Louisiana, United States
A few of us from the Springfield, IL area will be going to the memorial
service Saturday. If anyone else is able to go, I’m sure Bill will appreciate
it.
Dan’s words said it very well. Trent was a vibrant, fun loving person. He
will be missed by many.
Just received word that one of our own, Richard Cunningham
passed away. His moniker was Richard@my64etype.com on this
forum. I don’t have any other information at this time…
He will be missed.–
Dick Maury , Rebuild Dept.- Coventry West
Lithonia, GA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–