[E-Type] ~Sorta OT~ Opinion from the Braintrust

A friend of mine sent me this and I wish to hear other opinions:
I’m ambivalent, at this point.

http://tinyurl.com/c3hl3c--
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

Silly idea. I’d love to see it, but it’s a silly idea.
Just try to get those folks in Alaska, Idaho, Montana and
Wyoming out of their Expeditions and Suburbans. What about
Hummers? I’d stand in line and sell tickets to watch those
puppies crunched up into little blocks of GMC steel.
Randy–
Randall Harris
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In reply to a message from Randall Harris sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

In Colorado, too. They are (over)used here in exorbitantly stupid
numbers.–
The original message included these comments:

Just try to get those folks in Alaska, Idaho, Montana and
Wyoming out of their Expeditions and Suburbans. What about


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

Another gem from Feinstein and Waxman.

Can’t these politicians keep from trying to tell me what’s best for
me? As if I can’t figure it out myself? I was staring at the pump
watching it go $50,60,70,80,90,… bingo, $100 this summer.

The market will lead us to where we need to go. If you are not
smart enough to get rid of the gas hog then you shouldn’t have
spending money. You would likely spend it foolishly.

And really, is there anyone better at foolish spending than a
politician?

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Dave–
1969 BRG OTS
Skaneateles, NY, United States
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

Perhaps I’m not reading the article correctly, but doesn’t the
decision to ‘‘take advantage’’ of this offer reside with the
individual? IE: keep your truck/SUV if you want to?

The opposition, of course, is that it would be tax dollars paying
for it. Like the pork that’s laced through ANY bill pushed through
congress.

Jim Korbecki
Muskegon, Mi–
Muskegon, Michigan
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In reply to a message from Jim Korbecki sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

Dear Paulie,

Mental masturbation.

Mike Moore–
Mike Moore 63 O2S
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

Sorry Folks. I’m one of those Montana folks who live in a
rural area, have snow and mud, and haul horses. I need an
suv/pickup as a matter of safety and need.

I too get upset at urban’‘cowboys’’ without the need but I
don’t want the baby thrown out with the bathwater.–
Gary Herzberg, 63 3.8 FHC 66 Series 1 OTS, 98 xk8
Montana, United States
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

So we’re going to bail out another group of consumers that made
questionable decisions on their purchases? Anyone up for an income
tax boycott next year?–
Nick K. - 1964 OTS, 1968 FHC & 2007 Impreza WRX
Saint Louis, Missouri, United States
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I would fall on the in favor side of getting rid of large inefficient
vehicles but don’t like tax $ as the avenue. Why should tax payers
subsidize the program and as stated it won’t be completely successful
at hitting its target. I don’t really buy the jobs and safety
arguments either. Big vehicles may make their drivers and passengers
safer but at the risk of everyone around them. Jobs for that kind of
product will move to whatever is popular, right now SUVs aren’t so I
think they’ll moving anyway. I know its not popular but I still think
higher fuel prices will make this happen without subsidies.
pauls 67ots

A friend of mine sent me this and I wish to hear other opinions:
I’m ambivalent, at this point.

http://tinyurl.com/c3hl3c
<<<<<<<<<From: “Wiggles” vrooomie@fastmail.fm
Subject: [E-Type] ~Sorta OT~ Opinion from the Braintrust…


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In reply to a message from Gary Herzberg sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

As it says, it’s voluntary. Proper, use-specific behavior for
these kinds of vehicles, never has, never will bother me.

I have a HUUUUGE gas-guzzling pick’em up twuck: It SITS till I NEED
it. I NEVER drive it unless I’m in NEED of a HUUUGE gas-guzzling
pick’em up twuck.

It’s as you said,…urban cowboys that make my fur stand straight
out.–
The original message included these comments:

Sorry Folks. I’m one of those Montana folks who live in a
rural area, have snow and mud, and haul horses. I need an
suv/pickup as a matter of safety and need.
I too get upset at urban’‘cowboys’’ without the need but I
don’t want the baby thrown out with the bathwater.


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

Truth is at least as strange as fiction. Get hold of a copy
of Door Into Summer by Heinlein. He wrote the book in
1957; it starts in 1970, when the hero goes into ‘cold
sleep’ and wakes up in 2000, where he gets a job crushing
ground cars to subsidize workers in Detroit. The cars
aren’t well built, because they are bound for the crusher.
Heinlein was exactly 50 years ahead of his time.–
1969 4.2 Series 2 E Type
Brentwood Bay, B.C., Canada
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

Mebbe;

California already has a similar plan. $800.00 available to anyone
wishing to surrender their guzzler. Proceeds come from the Smog
program. Catch is, it has to pass SMOG?

California recently almost passed AB616. Requiring annual SMOG for
some of the older cars, (read my two). It is in committee to build
in some collector car protection.

Most of our legislators drive the big SUV’s.

I have a middle sized 94 Jeep Cherokee Grand Laredo. As it is a 4.0
6, it isn’t a miser on fuel, but not too bad if I keep my foot out
of it. It reminds me a lot of the 38 Dodge that took our family
through WWII. Passenger space about the same, boot space about6the
same, Jeep’s engine CI’s are a bit bigger, but not by much.

That Fed legislation is flawed. It will only take out the low value
SUV’s and if done atall, it should find the bucks somewhwre else.
Perhaps, the fed’s should set an example by downsizing. I wonder
what Obama’s twin Cadillac’s guzzle? Well, they do have a spoecial
purpose, but, the rest of the fleet is SUV and limo oriented.

Even Arnold’s Hummers are on alternative fuels now!! I set the
efficacy of that aside for a bit.

Our legislators have state furnished cars and credit cards to fuel
them. Wanna guess what most choose?

Generally SEMA is on the right track. But, I think that the law of
the market place will take care of the low value SUV’s targeted
here. My Jeep is probsbly worth about 3K at present. Mebbe not that
much in view of it’s 210,000 miles. That scares some folks, even if
it is clean,shiny tight and strong.
Carl–
The original message included these comments:

A friend of mine sent me this and I wish to hear other opinions:
I’m ambivalent, at this point.


Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
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In reply to a message from IanCameron sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

Being a fan of Heinlein, I thought the same, too!
Just didn’t think of including that in here…brilliant point, Ian!–
The original message included these comments:

Truth is at least as strange as fiction. Get hold of a copy
of Door Into Summer by Heinlein. He wrote the book in
1957; it starts in 1970, when the hero goes into ‘cold
sleep’ and wakes up in 2000, where he gets a job crushing
ground cars to subsidize workers in Detroit. The cars
aren’t well built, because they are bound for the crusher.


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

We have such a programme here. IF your car is older then 9 yrs, was
longer then 1 year registered on your name, then you can get rid of
it for 3250 USD (2500 Euro).

Point is you HAVE to buy a new one or a max. one year old car.

And it is limited to 600.000, equals 1.5 billion Euros.

Carsten–
Restoration in progress: 1966 2+2 LHD manual
Goettingen, Germany
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So someone in authority wants me to bail out yet more people who made
poor purchasing decisions? I really don’t care if someone over reached
to purchase a house (I realise that foreclosure isn’t a nice option but
didn’t they look at all possible scenarios before they made the
purchase?) a car, truck, aeroplane or boat. I see zero reason why I have
to pay for their foolish financial decisions and for what little use it
would do, would strongly object.

This may be a “tree hugger” feel-good move but as is often the case,
really doesn’t make much sense given that the greatest source of
pollution from motor vehicles is during their manufacture and final
disposal.

I’m a great believer in letting people drive what they want - it is
their $, their choice and so I really don’t understand the vituperative
comments on the list about those who choose to drive SUVs (Hummers or
anything else) but no one is prepared to condemn me for having two quite
irrational vehicles - with large, gas guzzling 6 cylinder XK engines
that can only hold two people and can’t even carry much luggage. Given
that these are MY choice and I want to continue to drive them, it would
be churlish for me to make any statements about the vehicles that others
drive. I see the choice of an “up market” pick up (the prices of some of
these boggles the mind) or a Hummer because it “suits your image” or is
a “lifestyle statement” as being little different from that of me
selecting a car because I think it “looks good”, or in the case of
SWMBO, because she thinks she looks good in it.

Interestingly, in then latest copy of R&T, there is a report on 6
“supercars”, all of which have fuel consumption figures that would make
most (all?) SUVs appear to be paragons of virtue where mpg is concerned
but we don’t hear about the necessity to crush these to “improve the
planet”. And the argument about “supercars” doing very little mileage
doesn’t wash, as many owners of trucks and SUVs (and in my case, a large
old Chevy wagon) keep them for “hauling duties” and convenience when
something large and moderately “expendable” is needed.

Amazing how easy it is to apportion blame or the need for change where
others are concerned. He who cast the first stone…

John (with two particularly non PC Jag roadsters, a non PC Brit bike -
big engine - and some other stuff…)______________________________________________________
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In reply to a message from Duhig, John F sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

All excellent points. Be aware, I’m not in favor of the law, per
se; behavior is something I think best controleld by markets…to
the extent they can.

There is NO such thing in a civilized society as complete and total
freedom; that dog don’t hunt. Total freedom is called anarchy and
I’m pretty much ‘agin it.’

However, people who drive Hummers to work and back, with one person
in the vehicle, as a effin’ fashion statement (and I see it DAILY)
need some ‘reminder’ that their choices are idiotic ones. That’s
one reason (out of many) I am TOTALLY in favor of higher fuel costs
through taxes that are applied to infrastructure.–
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from Duhig, John F sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

John,
It’s a short leap to telling us what we HAVE to drive, hey John?

Souless electric jellybeens that won’t exceed 60 klicks (because it
will have been mandated that we switch to metric measure).

Arrrggghhh!

OK, where did this line come from:
‘‘I have Fed’s so far up my ass I can taste Brylcream’’
D–
The original message included these comments:

John (with two particularly non PC Jag roadsters, a non PC Brit bike -
big engine - and some other stuff…)


1969 BRG OTS
Skaneateles, NY, United States
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In reply to a message from David Ahlers sent Fri 30 Jan 2009:

Helluva way to talk about Tauruses…

:)–
The original message included these comments:

Souless electric jellybeens that won’t exceed 60 klicks (because it


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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From: jduhig@tycoelectronics.com

Yeah, but ya know John, we (the world) simply have too many internal combustion engines spewing out too much pollution, and we gotta do something about it mate! No matter whether it offends someone’s vision of free choice or gets termed finger pointing or whatever we want to call it, this is all simply more smoke screens (pardon the pun) for reasons not to do something about it.

We just have to bite the proverbial bullet and start changing our habits to less polluting ways.

A good start is removing, by whatever mechanism that gets it done in the shortest possible timeframe, those vehicles that pollute the most.

I wont even try to suggest what the selection criteria might be, but we have to get around to kicking ourselves in the butt, like any decent caring parent would do to an errant child, and bloody well get on with it!

Of course my E should be one of the last to go!

Les Halls
Atlanta Ga
'68 S1.5 2+2______________________________________________________
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Les,

Your comment:

“Yeah=2C but ya know John=2C we (the world) simply have too many
internal co= mbustion engines spewing out too much pollution=2C and we
gotta do somethin= g about it mate!”

unfortunately tends to make me start dragging out my soapbox…
Indeed, you are correct, the issue ISN’T the size/type/aesthetics of the
vehicles/engines it is the quantity. Why so many? Simple, too many
people and zero attempt (China and the late Ms. Ghandi excepted) to
address the issue. As has oft been stated, if there were, say only 30%
or 20% of the current world population, there would be no raping and
pillaging of the rain forest, no pollution issue, no problems with
feeding the hungry, etc. Just that no one (I apologise to a couple of
like mined list members by this generalisation) is prepared to voice
this, as it is uber politically incorrect to say so. As long as we breed
like lemmings, we will suffer the same fate. With a lack of plagues of
biblical proportions, truly devastating wars (think WW1, not what we’ve
seen in the last few decades), infant mortality rates that in most
countries have thankfully decreased dramatically, etc., etc., we really
SHOULD face the issue of overpopulation and not continue to focus only
on the symptoms (e.g. pollution from vehicles, depletion of natural
resources) and not on the solution (which inevitably means less people).

As long as tree huggers continue to breed, I will have zero guilt from
driving my highly polluting vehicles as much as I like - I can take
solace from the fact that once I’m pushing up daises, my impact upon
this highly stressed orb will cease, where as those who (to my
amazement…) take “pride” in foisting their offspring upon the world
will have a negative impact that will continue and increase!

Geez, this soapbox is so high it can make your nose bleed…

As for Hummers, Expeditions, Ferrari 599s, Lambos, etc., aesthetics are
way to personal for me to immodestly consider that I have the ability to
be an arbiter of what is “correct” or not and I wonder why others would
feel so empowered …

“Freedom”? Personally, having had the distinct pleasure of living for a
few years under a benign dictatorship (blissful governmental efficiency,
coddled population, excellent access to authority, etc., arguably the
best time of my life…) I’d willingly vote for such a situation - if I
could just be assured of the intentions of the particular dictator…
The issue becomes that within a political system where the “rulers” are
elected, then inevitably, those that stand for office tend NOT to be the
ones who should really be governing…

John. (who continues polluting with his old Brit machinery with no sense
of guilt but equally, no sense of entitlement or intention to pass
judgement on others…)______________________________________________________
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