After a year that I am glad to see behind me, I am starting
back into the E. Last place I left off at was sorting out
the fugly mess that the butchered wiring is. Today I
reviewed my notes and the last place I was at was sorting
out the ignition switch/starter circuit. Some wrench jockey
had thrown out the original starter/solenoid relay
arrangement in favor of an American switch wired directly to
the starter. Today I removed the switch and found the
white/yellow wire cut back and buried beneath electrical
tape. Nice. What I need to do is replace the missing relay
and get a new ignition switch to sort this part out.
Here’s my question: I know from the electrical schematic
that the brown wire goes to the C-2 side of the relay and
the white/yellow wire goes to the W-1 side. All well and
good but… I need to physically locate the other end of the
brown and white/yellow wires. If anyone would tell me where
the relay goes in the engine compartment, that would let me
know where to start looking.
Thanks, all.
Bob–
'69 2+2-Big Red, '69 OTS-Priscilla, '99 XK8-Othello
Mantua NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Wed 5 May 2010:
The relay on my 70 Roadster is at the right hand side of the engine
bay on the firewall just above the glass bowl fuel filter. I’ve
got two Strombergs with a flat filter. It may be in a different
position with the large round air filter.–
The original message included these comments:
Here’s my question: I know from the electrical schematic
that the brown wire goes to the C-2 side of the relay and
the white/yellow wire goes to the W-1 side. All well and
good but… I need to physically locate the other end of the
brown and white/yellow wires. If anyone would tell me where
the relay goes in the engine compartment, that would let me
know where to start looking.
–
Pete Peterson 70E(193K) 88XJ40s(253K & 242K) 94XJ40 (122K)
Severna Park, Maryland, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Wed 5 May 2010:
Bob splash panel in front of battery and slightly toward engine–
horn, ac, and alt relays there too.–
The original message included these comments:
had thrown out the original starter/solenoid relay
that the brown wire goes to the C-2 side of the relay and
the relay goes in the engine compartment, that would let me
–
George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from George Camp sent Wed 5 May 2010:
George:
I kinda thought that this is where it should be. Now life
gets difficult for me. I just took a peek and I don’t see
any place where the brown and white/yellow wires would exit
the wiring loom. I think that they might have been cut back
and taped somewhere. If you have a similar engine bay could
you look and let me know where to start looking?
Thanks a awful lot!
Bob–
'69 2+2-Big Red, '69 OTS-Priscilla, '99 XK8-Othello
Mantua NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Wed 5 May 2010:
At some time in late 1969 they went from a ‘‘traditional’’ starter
switch-ignition-starter wiring system to a ‘‘load shedding’’ system.
The later system has TWO different wiring paths to the coil. When
in the ‘‘running’’ position on the key the circuit path goes one way
via the ballast resistor. When the key is in the starting position
it goes another way and by passes it.
This was VERY confusing to me while working on Scott’s car. I
converted his to an early 1969 wiring version as it is much better
to deal with.
Which one do you have ?
James–
James 1963 XKE Coupe
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Wed 5 May 2010:
Bob splash panel in front of battery and slightly toward engine–
horn, ac, and alt relays there too.
George, on my '70 OTS it’s on the bulkhead near the windscreen washer.
You are correct in that the horn, A/C, and alt relays are on the splash
panel as that’s where mine are.
I would assume that the only difference between the '69 and '70 is the
starter relay has an extra contact on the '70 to bypass the coil ballast
resistor.
George Cohn
'70 OTSOn 5/5/2010 3:54 PM, George Camp wrote:
In reply to a message from SFjames sent Wed 5 May 2010:
The chassis is 1R10886, body 4R5289, engine 7R7652-9. I am
not sure but I think that this puts the car somewhere
around/after August '69. If, as you say, there is a
difference between early and late ignitions, then I need to
figure out where my car falls in relation to that and
determine the correct wiring and the correct replacement
ignition switch.
Unfortunately the hack job done on the ignition has left me
with very few clues. Once I do determine what I have then I
need to figure out what wires go where. If the ignition
switch is any indicator, the wires will be cut back out of
view and taped up. Lovely. I’ve always had electrical
gremlins in this car and this could be the reason!
Bob–
'69 2+2-Big Red, '69 OTS-Priscilla, '99 XK8-Othello
Mantua NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from George Cohn sent Wed 5 May 2010:
George I said that to him because he said he had a 69 car. It
is true the relay was moved to the bulkhead later but then again
there was a different wiring harness and other devices such as the
load shedding and such.The relay is different also as you suggest.
So if his car is in fact a 70 not 69 the relay should be where you
say–if not it is on the splash pan (or should be. Perhaps his car
is later and that is why he can not find the leads where I sent him–
The original message included these comments:
George, on my '70 OTS it’s on the bulkhead near the windscreen washer.
You are correct in that the horn, A/C, and alt relays are on the splash
panel as that’s where mine are.
I would assume that the only difference between the '69 and '70 is the
starter relay has an extra contact on the '70 to bypass the coil ballast
resistor.
–
George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Thu 6 May 2010:
Bob Jaguar had been experiencing problems with increased load on
the ignition system esp. with AC equipped cars. At first this was
addressed with a wiring modification in Service Bulletin 1 B 5
dated 8/20/69. This proved only partially successful so the Ballast
Ignition System was incorporated in Service Bulletin 1 B 11 dated
12/15/69. The affected car in your range (Priscilla?) is 1R.11052
(and subs) or some 166 cars after yours. So unless it has been
retrofitted or modified your car is as I suggested–a 1969 and the
orig. location for the relay is the LH splash pan in front of the
battery. Best of luck.–
The original message included these comments:
The chassis is 1R10886, body 4R5289, engine 7R7652-9. I am
not sure but I think that this puts the car somewhere
around/after August '69. If, as you say, there is a
difference between early and late ignitions, then I need to
figure out where my car falls in relation to that and
determine the correct wiring and the correct replacement
ignition switch.
–
George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from George Camp sent Thu 6 May 2010:
George (and all), thanks for your help!
Ok, so if I have the non load-shedding ignition system, then
from what I understand from you and from looking at the
wiring schematic is that I should have the following:
A relay on the splash pan with 1 brown wire coming from the
ignition switch to the C-2 side of the relay and one
white/yellow wire coming from the ignition switch to the W-1
side.
Then I should have one white/red wire going to the starter
from the C-1 side of the relay and one black wire going from
W-2 to ground.
Of course, none of it is there right now. Big Red will
become a donor once again…
Question: About the white/red starter wire-does it go back
into the wiring harness and come out on the passenger side
of the car somewhere close to the starter or is it a
separate wire that is run across the engine bay? Reason I
ask is as of right now I don’t see any wire fitting that
description anywhere. It’s either been removed or cut back.
If it is supposed to be in the harness then I’ll have to
explore for it.
Also, what about the main power wire/cable for the starter?
How is that routed and what color/gauge is it? Currently
there is this big honkin’ wire that was added and is running
from the battery to the switch and then to the starter.
Bob–
'69 2+2-Big Red, '69 OTS-Priscilla, '99 XK8-Othello
Mantua NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Thu 6 May 2010:
On my car, a 1969 (1R10351), the starter relay is located
inside the car, on the passenger side, above the footwell and
to the right of the glovebox. I can email you a photo of it,
taken when I was dismantling the car prior to restoration.
This is where my replacement harness was directed as well. My
car was originally equipped with AC, but from the numbers
George gave, I think my car was manufactured before the
factory fix came in.
As for the starter cable, I used black 4-gauge wire from the
local NAPA. It is routed along the frame rails. I can take a
photo of that, but don’t have pone at the ready.–
Kevin Kemper http://jaguaretype.wordpress.com
Auburn, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Kevin Kemper sent Thu 6 May 2010:
Thanks for sending the picture, Kevin, My car also has A/C.
I’ll take a peek behind the A/C unit and see if I can locate
it. If I find it there, then I just need to figure out what
happened to the wires that went to the starter. Of course,
the starter is a non-Jaguar unit, so another part will be on
order…
Bob–
'69 2+2-Big Red, '69 OTS-Priscilla, '99 XK8-Othello
Mantua NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Fri 7 May 2010:
A bit of an update:
After some more exploration I located a cut wire near the
starter that was covered over with electrical tape. I think
that the wire is the white/red wire but as old/dirty as it
is, until I find the other end, I won’t know for sure. It is
one of the wrapped wires as opposed to the plastic coated
wires and it looks to be a thicker gauge. I kinda can see a
dark burgundy red color and what could be grayish white
striping, so this might be it. As far as the relay goes,
looking at the fender shield where the other two relays are
I can tell that all of the holes were used but that a relay
is missing. I am pretty sure that the starter relay belongs
here. All well and good, now I just have to find the other
ends of starter circuit wires.
Bob–
'69 2+2-Big Red, '69 OTS-Priscilla, '99 XK8-Othello
Mantua NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Kevin Kemper sent Thu 6 May 2010:
Kevin,
My '69 LHD OTS (1R9191) also has the start relay in this position
under the dash on the passenger side inside the car. Mine is a non-
AC car, in case this is significant. A search of the archives
yields several listers with the same situation on '69 cars.
-David–
The original message included these comments:
On my car, a 1969 (1R10351), the starter relay is located
inside the car, on the passenger side, above the footwell and
to the right of the glovebox. I can email you a photo of it,
–
davidxk '56 XK-140 OTS, '69 XKE OTS , '98 XK8
Monterey CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Kevin Kemper sent Thu 6 May 2010:
Kevin and all–I did a little more hunting and research–iit may be
from what I have found not whether it has AC as I thought but
whether the ign. switch is locking or non locking. Clearly the 68
and early 69 cars had the alt. ign relay on the splash pan but
there are not one mod but 3. Give me your vins off forum and the
location of your relay and I may be able to come up with something
more refined. Thanks.–
The original message included these comments:
This is where my replacement harness was directed as well. My
car was originally equipped with AC, but from the numbers
George gave, I think my car was manufactured before the
–
George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
The starter solenoid relay in my '69 2+2 is located where Kevin Kemper described his in his Thursday May 6, 2010 message shown above. Harness leads comply with this location.
Hi, I have a 1968 series1.5 roadster, ex LHD converted to RHD, which I’m rewiring with a RH loom. The horn and alternator relays are still in the original position together on the splash panel and I’ve identified replacements for those relays. Does anyone know which relay (part number) I need for the starter solenoid? and where it should go. I think it’s the same position as LHD cars and which loom it’s connected to, ie main loom or dashboard loom etc.
Thanks Rob you’re probably correct as I can’t find one. It’s just strange that every wiring diagram for a 4.2 I’ve seen shows one. Diagrams for early 3.8 cars dont have one so maybe it only came in with series2