I have a 1971 S3 and it does have a front antisway bar. I looked in
the rear and there are brackets on the tub for a sway bar but not
on the trailing arms.
I got a new 71 brocheur and it said that the s3 or that year had
front and rear sway bars. Did the original s3 have front and back
sway bars? Would there be an advantage to having them on both ends
of this car as do the S1 and s2 cars?
Sonny–
Sonny
Lake Charles, La. USA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Sonny sent Sun 29 Jul 2012:
If an anti sway bar is an anti roll bar the S3 did not have a rear
one. My 1971 has the brackets on the radius arms (presumably left
over parts from S2 production) but no fitments on the tub.
Fitting a rear bar is only an advantage if you wish to alter in
some way the handling characteristics from that which Jaguar
intended.–
The original message included these comments:
I have a 1971 S3 and it does have a front antisway bar. I looked in
the rear and there are brackets on the tub for a sway bar but not
on the trailing arms.
I got a new 71 brocheur and it said that the s3 or that year had
front and rear sway bars. Did the original s3 have front and back
sway bars? Would there be an advantage to having them on both ends
of this car as do the S1 and s2 cars?
–
Pete Grice 71 S3 2+2 1S50440
Church Lawton, Cheshire, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Pete Grice sent Mon 30 Jul 2012:
Well I have a yes and a no to the question. Does anyone have the
definitive answer? Of the S3 members out there do any of you have
an original anti-roll bar on the rear of your cars? Mine happens to
be a FHC if that makes a difference.
Sonny–
The original message included these comments:
If an anti sway bar is an anti roll bar the S3 did not have a rear
one. My 1971 has the brackets on the radius arms (presumably left
–
Sonny
Lake Charles, La. USA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Sonny sent Mon 30 Jul 2012:
The definative answer is no. The S3 did not come with a rear anti-
roll/sway bar.
S3 FHC 2+2 Parts Catalogue pg 31.30 - 32 shows the rear
suspension… no rear anti roll/sway bar. Also, the radius arm for
the S3 does not have the mounting brackets.
S3 Repair Operation Manual E165 issue 1 pg 64.35.29 does show a
diagram 3099 with a radius arm and bracket, however there is no
mention of a rear anti roll/sway bar in the entire text.
Yes, the ‘‘usuals’’ sell a rear anti roll/sway bar and yes, you can
fit a S1 or 2 rear anti roll/sway bar to an S3 - doesnt mean it
left Coventry that way :-)–
The original message included these comments:
Well I have a yes and a no to the question. Does anyone have the
definitive answer? Of the S3 members out there do any of you have
an original anti-roll bar on the rear of your cars? Mine happens to
–
Pete '71 S3 V12 2+2
Houston, TX, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Sonny sent Mon 30 Jul 2012:
For what it’s worth, my 1988 XJS didn’t come with a rear
sway bar, but it did have the mounting pads on the body. I
installed a rear bar and at the same time a larger front bar
(neither was a simple installation). The difference in
handling was very noticeable. If the S3 wasn’t designed to
have a rear bar, then adding one should be combined with a
heavier front bar for best results.–
The original message included these comments:
Well I have a yes and a no to the question. Does anyone have the
definitive answer? Of the S3 members out there do any of you have
an original anti-roll bar on the rear of your cars? Mine happens to
be a FHC if that makes a difference.
Sonny
In reply to a message from Sonny sent Sun 29 Jul 2012:
Thanks to all for the information. I guess it did not come with a
anti-roll bar but did come with some of brackets.
Thanks to all!
Sonny–
The original message included these comments:
I have a 1971 S3 and it does have a front antisway bar. I looked in
the rear and there are brackets on the tub for a sway bar but not
on the trailing arms.
–
Sonny
Lake Charles, La. USA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Richard Cunningham sent Mon 30 Jul 2012:
Yes sway bars make a big difference to handling. Certainly
all my E’s have had them along with an early 76’ XJS which
came new.
I never looked under my 88 S but the other cars I own all
have them.
If the S3 E really came from the factory without a rear sway
bar its a glaring omission and makes one wonder why ?
In reply to a message from alex paterson sent Tue 31 Jul 2012:
Adding a sway bar is no guarantee of improved handling! A
sway bar is used to TUNE the handling response, by pushing it
towards under-steer or over-steer, depending on which bar(s)
are installed, and their relative spring rates. Given the
significantly different chassis of the LWB E-type, deleting
the rear sway bar was no doubt done quite intentionally, to
get the desired handling response. Putting it back on could
well make the handling worse, not improve it.–
The original message included these comments:
If the S3 E really came from the factory without a rear sway
bar its a glaring omission and makes one wonder why ?
Alex P
–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Adding a sway bar is no guarantee of improved handling! A
sway bar is used to TUNE the handling response, by pushing it
towards under-steer or over-steer, depending on which bar(s)
are installed, and their relative spring rates. Given the
significantly different chassis of the LWB E-type, deleting
the rear sway bar was no doubt done quite intentionally, to
get the desired handling response. Putting it back on could
well make the handling worse, not improve it.
So, Ray, my car has a rear sway bar…are you saying that the
handling will be improved by removing it?On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Ray Livingston jagboy@pacbell.net wrote:
Yes, if you add one to the rear, you must stiffen up the front one to compensate. Ten your car would go through the corners like a bullet.
The reason we stiffen the front bar is to make the car handle at slower (autocross) speeds. At 150 MPH it would be too stiff.
Stiffening the rear would make it handle worse at autocross speeds without also stiffening the front.
LLoyd
My driveway is long enough that you can appreciate the conflict between the desire for privacy and the terror of being completely lost .----- Original Message -----
From: “Ray Livingston” jagboy@pacbell.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 8:27:38 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] sway bars
Adding a sway bar is no guarantee of improved handling! A
sway bar is used to TUNE the handling response, by pushing it
towards under-steer or over-steer, depending on which bar(s)
are installed, and their relative spring rates. Given the
significantly different chassis of the LWB E-type, deleting
the rear sway bar was no doubt done quite intentionally, to
get the desired handling response. Putting it back on could
well make the handling worse, not improve it.
Les, you are driving a sII, I believe the other car is the sIII.
REmoviing your rear would be the same as stiffinging the front, which is good for autocrossing. However… the entire car would lean so badly it would be a handful to control.
Nicht var? (German for, “ain’t that so?”)
LLoyd
My driveway is long enough that you can appreciate the conflict between the desire for privacy and the terror of being completely lost .----- Original Message -----
From: “Les Halls” jagaround@gmail.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 8:38:02 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] sway bars
So, Ray, my car has a rear sway bar…are you saying that the
handling will be improved by removing it?
In reply to a message from Sonny sent Mon 30 Jul 2012:
Hi Sonny,
My '73 2+2 does not have a rear anti-sway bar.
Cheers,
Lynn–
The original message included these comments:
Well I have a yes and a no to the question. Does anyone have the
definitive answer? Of the S3 members out there do any of you have
an original anti-roll bar on the rear of your cars? Mine happens to
be a FHC if that makes a difference.
Sonny
–
Lynn G.
68/85 ots, 73 2+2, Boise, Id., United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Les, you are driving a sII, I believe the other car is the sIII.
REmoviing your rear would be the same as stiffinging the front, which is good for autocrossing. However… the entire >car would lean so badly it would be a handful to control.
Ahem! S S1.5 is really a S1 old boy…of course, no offence taken…much!
So, therefore, at no time should the rear bar be stiffer than the
front…“aint that so”?On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 12:46 PM, LLoyd soothsayer1@comcast.net wrote:
No. “Generally speaking…” (see me waving my hands?) you stiffen the front bar to decrease oversteer. But American stock vehicles are natorious for horrible understeer. It all depends on many things from tires/wheels to tire pressure to spring rate to shock abssorbers to chassis flex to 4 wheel toe-in… ect. etc.
That’s why setup is such a science.
Too much for a rithmetician.
LLoyd
My driveway is long enough that you can appreciate the conflict between the desire for privacy and the terror of being completely lost .----- Original Message -----
From: “Les Halls” jagaround@gmail.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 10:53:13 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] sway bars
So, therefore, at no time should the rear bar be stiffer than the
front…“aint that so”?
No. “Generally speaking…” (see me waving my hands?) you stiffen the front bar to decrease oversteer. But >American stock vehicles are natorious for horrible understeer. It all depends on many things from tires/wheels to tire >pressure to spring rate to shock abssorbers to chassis flex to 4 wheel toe-in… ect. etc.
That’s why setup is such a science.
Yeah, but we’re not talking about an American stock vehicle, but a
stock Jag S1 2+2. And I haven’t noticed any horrible understeer on my
car. So, seems like I would never need a stronger rear bar than the
front!?On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 4:30 PM, LLoyd soothsayer1@comcast.net wrote:
In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Tue 31 Jul 2012:
An increase in diameter of the front bar will increase a
tendency for under steering which is normally corrected by
lifting off your right foot.
The rear sway bar will tend to increase the tendency for the
rear to move outwards and so produces over steer.
A combination of front and rear sway bar dynamics can
produce a car that corners flatter and better with a over
under steer control in the manner you desire.
the dynamics are usually control by sway bar thickness and
so it is usual to have the rear bar about 1/2 to 3/4 of the
front bars diameter depending on what you want.
If you fit a thicker bar at the front then you need a
thicker bar at the rear to maintain the same dynamic.
So why would Jaguar apparently leave out the rear bar on
more than one car every now and again.?
In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Tue 31 Jul 2012:
An increase in diameter of the front bar will increase a
tendency for under steering which is normally corrected by
lifting off your right foot.
Unless you give it some serious EXTRA boot to get the rear to break away!
So why would Jaguar apparently leave out the rear bar on
more than one car every now and again.?
Sounds odd to me Alex. I know the original lister was referring to a
SIII but I thought the V12 motor was no heavier (maybe even lighter)
than the iron 6 and so that should help the front come around easier.
This is why I asked about this issue for the S1/SII LWB cars.
Wouldn’t have thought there was that much difference in the chassis so
would expect the 3 cars to be about the same.On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 5:45 PM, alex paterson paterson@spro.net wrote:
Our “E’s” are set up just about perfect, even have a 50/50 weight distribution.
Since I auto-crossed mine, I set it up with Koni’s and heavy duty sway bar on the front.
That’s because at “slow speeds” (60 mph) there is more power to the rear wheels resulting in a tendency to oversteer. So PrtyKty handles better at slow speeds. Now, if I were to race it at 120-150 MPH, there would be understeer, so I would have to go back stock.
I could have gotten the same result from removing the rear bar, but then the whole car would sway beyond what I could control. I can’t imagine on a sI or sII needing to stiffen the rear, unless you’re drag racing and want to hold it straighter on the straight.
LLoyd
My driveway is long enough that you can appreciate the conflict between the desire for privacy and the terror of being completely lost .----- Original Message -----
From: “Les Halls” jagaround@gmail.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 1:50:21 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] sway bars
Yeah, but we’re not talking about an American stock vehicle, but a
stock Jag S1 2+2. And I haven’t noticed any horrible understeer on my
car. So, seems like I would never need a stronger rear bar than the
front!?