[E-Type] Trouble installing belt on Series I

E-Type
1

Hi all,

We are having trouble installing belt on our series I, 1964
etype.

This car has a belt tensioner pulley. It was seized on its
shaft so we hit it with some PB blaster and loosened it up
nice. Now we removed the top bolt on the generator, and
loosened two bottom bolts, so it could move tight against
the engine to give us extra room.

We pulled old belt off (seems like it was the original
C19524 belt), and have a new belt with same number to install.

However, we can’t seem to get the new belt on. Is there a
trick here??? Is there a special tool that is needed? The
manual of course says that you should not need a tool and it
should just slip easily on.

Thanks.–
fj40
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2

In reply to a message from fj40 sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

Aside from the pulley, is the tensioner itself free to move?
I’ve always been surprised at just how easily the belt goes
on and off. You should be able to place the belt around the
three pulleys, then push the tensioner in and slip the belt
over that pulley.–
The original message included these comments:

This car has a belt tensioner pulley. It was seized on its
shaft so we hit it with some PB blaster and loosened it up
nice. Now we removed the top bolt on the generator, and
loosened two bottom bolts, so it could move tight against
the engine to give us extra room.
However, we can’t seem to get the new belt on. Is there a
trick here??? Is there a special tool that is needed? The
manual of course says that you should not need a tool and it
should just slip easily on.

–
Jack Terrick 66 FHC
Greensburg, PA, United States
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3

In reply to a message from Jack T. sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

The tensioner is completely free and easily moves out of the
way. The generator is up against the block, as far as it
will go without completely taking it off. There is
absolutely no way to get the belt around the other tree
pulleys…–
fj40
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4

In reply to a message from fj40 sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

I found this service bulletin, page 16 describes what is
missing in the shop manual. I think we need to look at it
again since it describes potentially some other bolts on
dynamo or generator that we may have missed.–
fj40
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5

Wrong size belt, that’s an easy one.
I have a sII, and have had the same thing happen to me. The belts come in 1/2 inch increments. The one that is too small will fit, but is a bear to get on and puts lots of pressure on the tensor.
The middle size is just right.
The half inch too long will allow the belt to squeal on the pulleys.
Been there, done that and got the scraped knuckles.

As the old saying goes, “Praise God and pass the rithmetician”.
I’m pretty sure that’s how it goes. Yeah, that must be.
LLoyd

Insofar as mathematics applies to
reality it is not certain and
so far as mathematics is certain
it does not apply to reality.
Einstein----- Original Message -----
From: “fj40” sguilmard@yahoo.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 5:24:50 AM
Subject: [E-Type] Trouble installing belt on Series I

Hi all,

We are having trouble installing belt on our series I, 1964
etype.

This car has a belt tensioner pulley. …

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6

Yes, this is how it should work, a thirty second job.

And remember…
As the old saying goes, “Praise God and pass the rithmetician”.
I’m pretty sure that’s how it goes. Yeah, that must be.
LLoyd

Insofar as mathematics applies to
reality it is not certain and
so far as mathematics is certain
it does not apply to reality.
Einstein----- Original Message -----
From: “Jack T.” jht66e@comcast.net

Aside from the pulley, is the tensioner itself free to move?
I’ve always been surprised at just how easily the belt goes
on and off. You should be able to place the belt around the
three pulleys, then push the tensioner in and slip the belt
over that pulley.

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7

In reply to a message from LLoyd (a rithmetician) sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. WWII US Navy chaplain.

Lay the old belt down and place the new one over it. That should
indicate if it is the same size.

At times, I’ve resorted to using a scredriver or similar to lever a
tight belt on to a pulley while turning the pulley by hand.

Something like that trick of changing the belt on an old beatle
with the engine running!!! Never tried it, but have seen it. ‘‘don’t
do this at home’’ caveat!!

Hmm. There is a beetle based buggy in the family. Fix engine or
find another is on the agenda.

Carl–
The original message included these comments:

As the old saying goes, ‘‘Praise God and pass the rithmetician’’.

–
Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
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8

In reply to a message from fj40 sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

Gee, responders here have the exact opposite experience I do,
perhaps because they have 4.2 cars? I have a '64 3.8 too, and my
experience is just like yours, nameless fj40 (please identify
yourself).

There is no such thing as too much stress on the tensioner. It’s
designed to hold continuous pressure on the belt, and the closer it
is to fully compressed, the most wear it will in future be able to
take up.

The ‘‘wrong size’’ on a 3.8 is a 4.2 belt, and it’s going to be too
loose. Yes, it’s easy to get on, but it will soon stretch to put
the tensioner beyond its limit, and so no tension on the belt, with
the resultant slippage. The correct belt, C.19524 is the one you
have. In the past I have gotten belts marked for this and yet were
the larger 4.2 belt.

To replace the belt I have to do all you have done, then lever the
belt on with a screwdriver. I put it all together, put a big
screwdriver on the belt and generator pulley, then hit the starter
external button on the solenoid. Pops right on. This has been the
required technique for 40 years or so for me. Mind your fingers
though, I think a slip could cause real problems.

The tensioner spring is quite strong, especially through the
leverage of the belt. If you had a way to fully compress the
tensioner (like an assistant) it might go on easier. I always do
it alone, and this works. 4.2s don’t have this solenoid button
FWIW.

Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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9

In reply to a message from mouton sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

One person is compressing the tensioner, second person is
trying to put the belt on, generator is completely up
against the engine. Seems like you should be able to slip it
on without a ridiculous amount of force.

I will check again the two belts to compare length. A quick
look prior to our attempts, they seemed very similar.

Your tip with screwdriver… you get it started on the
pulley, then kick starter? I assume you don’t leave
screwdriver in there right?

thanks.–
fj40
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10

In reply to a message from fj40 sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

Nope, it’s always needed a ridiculous amount of force, though I
never have an assistant compressing the tensioner. If it’s easy,
it won’t be tight enough on the pulleys. With the 4.2 size belt,
easy on, slippage after a few weeks use.

Compare the belts with screwdrivers at the ends pulling. Laying
them against each other won’t make their shapes the same.

Don’t worry, when you hit the starter the screwdriver will fly out,
no question about leaving it in! And don’t have your assistant
push the tensioner, have them push the starter solenoid button if
you do it this way, it will be dangerous at the pulleys when you
hit the starter. And don’t have the ignition on, you risk having
the engine start.

You should be able to do it using a socket on the generator pulley
bolt, too, and it may be safer – if you have an assistant to turn
the socket.

Good luck! (who are you?)

Jerry–
The original message included these comments:

One person is compressing the tensioner, second person is
trying to put the belt on, generator is completely up
against the engine. Seems like you should be able to slip it
on without a ridiculous amount of force.

–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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11

In reply to a message from fj40 sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

fj40, I have a '64 OTS and agree with Lloyd. Sounds like you
have a wrong size belt. I have replaced the belt many times,
no problem.

Bob, '64 OTS–
The original message included these comments:

In reply to a message from fj40 sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:
http://www.terrysjag.com/3.4%20L%20Engine%20Service.pdf
I found this service bulletin, page 16 describes what is
missing in the shop manual. I think we need to look at it
again since it describes potentially some other bolts on
dynamo or generator that we may have missed.
fj40

–
BobEJag
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12

In reply to a message from BobEJag sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

Bob,

I replaced my belt about two weeks ago, about 100 miles. It was
very difficult to mount with the generator pushed tight against the
block, as I said. Currently the tensioner has about 1 1/2 inches
of play; any looser and it would surely have reached the limit of
its spring and be useless. Not sure which belts you have been
using, but I bet it has been the 4.2 belt, which is ‘‘a little too
large’’. The 3.8 part number is supposed to be C.19524, which is
what I have always used – always with the situation I outlined.

Perhaps you have a 4.2 with alternator, or the hands of Hercules?
; -)

Jerry–
The original message included these comments:

fj40, I have a '64 OTS and agree with Lloyd. Sounds like you
have a wrong size belt. I have replaced the belt many times,
no problem.

–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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13

G’Day fj40,
I had an FJ40 Toyota Landcruiser once. An alternative to momentary kicking
starter is to use a ring spanner (maybe what people seem to call a box
wrench) on the nut holding on alternator pulley to turn it and draw the belt
on. Getting screwdriver tip in pulley groove and holding lotsa pressure on
belt with screwdriver at the correct angle makes a difference too. Worked
for me, belt was definitely way too tight to slip over pulleys with just
hands on my car - has the tensioner pulley but do not know whether that was
a PO upgrade.
Cheers, John B. 67 2+2 in Oz______________________________________________________
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14

In reply to a message from john bennett sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

It may be overkill, but when I faced the same problem (tight
belt) on my Series 2 I just unbolted one of the pulleys (4
bolts), fitted the belt, and then bolted it back on. I’d just
repainted all the pulleys and really didn’t want to scratch
them up by using the screwdriver I had previously used to get
the belt off. Only took a few minutes, and no broken
knuckles…

-David–
davidxk '56 XK-140 OTS, '69 XKE OTS , '98 XK8
Monterey CA, United States
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15

In reply to a message from davidxk sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

The C19524 is a 1010mm long double grooved belt.

I had exactly the same problem as you. My '63 3.8 had at
some stage been converted from generator to alternator. I
don’t know if they used the same pulley, but I suspect they
used a smaller one. Somewhere they then found a belt 1025mm
long. It was showing some wear, so I decided to replace it.

I have search everywhere for a 1025mm double groove belt,
but they just do not exist.

These are the double groove belts available. The C19524 was
too short, and the C19525 too long.

C19523 940 mm
C19524 1010 mm (too short)
C19525 1050 mm the
C24291 1100 mm

In the end my solution was to change the pulleys to 13A
single V belts.

There was no problem with the crank and waterpump pulleys, I
got them from SNG.

The pulley for the alternator was much harder. After digging
through a mountain of old generators and alternators at the
jag wrecker I finally found one with the right shaft
diameter and key. I think it came off a Daimler 250. Offset
was wrong, so I had to move the alternator forward a bit.

Then replacing the waterpump pulley was another exercise.
There is not enough room to remove the old pulley once you
removed the bolts - it hits the picture frame. Solution here
was to loosen the engine mounts and raise the engine a
little.

In the end, I ended up with a standard 13A1025 single V belt
that I can find a replacement for just about anywhere in
10mm increments–
Stefan Kjellberg '63 3.8 OTS
Sydney, Australia
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16

In reply to a message from fj40 sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

It’s an awful task.
Take a length of string and tie a loop in one end, maybe the size
of a basket ball. Put the loop over the pulley and tie it off under
tension somewhere on the driver’s side of the car, like the right
front wheel. Put the belt on and cut the string off.
You may have to start the belt on the pulley and hit the starter to
have the belt spin itself on.
Hope that helps.–
larry 71 sII
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17

In reply to a message from davidxk sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

I thought of doing that, but then figure it would be pain to
loosen/tighten bolts on water pump since pulley moves
freely. Plus the clearance seems a bit of a pain on series I.

It is interesting to note that some people have no problems,
and others have massive trouble. The manual, or service
bulletin seems to make it out to be a walk in the park.–
The original message included these comments:

belt) on my Series 2 I just unbolted one of the pulleys (4
bolts), fitted the belt, and then bolted it back on. I’d just

–
fj40
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18

In reply to a message from john bennett sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

I thought of this but the crank does not move so it would
just slide? I guess I could lube it up, then clean it off,
but that would be a pain and residual lube could cause belt
to slip…–
The original message included these comments:

starter is to use a ring spanner (maybe what people seem to call a box
wrench) on the nut holding on alternator pulley to turn it and draw the belt
on. Getting screwdriver tip in pulley groove and holding lotsa pressure on

–
fj40
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19

In reply to a message from larry 71 sII sent Tue 19 Feb 2013:

Alright, I think I get the idea. I will try. and let you
know how it goes… next weekend.

Thanks for all the suggestions.–
fj40
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20

In reply to a message from fj40 sent Wed 20 Feb 2013:

I put the belt over all the pulleys first, then compressed
the idler/tension pulley to slip it over it. You cannot have
the belt over the I/T pulley, and try to compress it by
pulling the belt over the generator pulley, unless you have
someone compress the I/T pulley.
Joel–
ex jag, '66 E-type S1 4.2, '56 XK140dhc, '97 XJ-6
Denison, TX, United States
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