[E-Type] valve adjustment

Hi Guys
I hoping the engine gurus of the forums can offer me some
advise on this one.

I am building up the engine on the 70 2+2 I am putting back
together, and this is the first time I have worked on a XK
engine. I started to adjust the valves today. The valves,
springs, and cam followers are all new, and they appear to
be too tight, I worked on the intake side today and .083
adjustment shims are the thinnest available and I am only
getting about .08mm gap with them. .1 being what is required.

I’m worried that I have missed something, and if not, what
can I do to rectify this.

I haven’t tried the exhaust side yet.

Any thoughts?

joe–
Joe Hine, 1970 E Type 2+2
Fredericton, N.B., Canada
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In reply to a message from rv4flyer sent Tue 2 Mar 2010:

How about the hardened valve seats? Did you or a previous owner
have the seats ground when all the valves needed was hand lapping
for a good seal? If the seats are ground so far that you cannot
use a regular shim, you’ll either have to get the shims surface
ground thinner, or shorten the valve stems or maybe grind the
underside of the new followers. Of the choices, grinding the shims
is probably the best option.–
The original message included these comments:

I am building up the engine on the 70 2+2 I am putting back
together, and this is the first time I have worked on a XK
engine. I started to adjust the valves today. The valves,
springs, and cam followers are all new, and they appear to
be too tight, I worked on the intake side today and .083
adjustment shims are the thinnest available and I am only
getting about .08mm gap with them. .1 being what is required.
I’m worried that I have missed something, and if not, what
can I do to rectify this.


Pete Peterson 70E(193K) 88XJ40s(253K & 242K) 94XJ40 (122K)
Severna Park, Maryland, United States
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In reply to a message from rv4flyer sent Tue 2 Mar 2010:

Hi Joe,

I have a 1970 E-Type and have always set the valve clearance at
0.10’’ (not mm) for both intake and exhaust. The standard shim range
is 0.085’’ - 0.110’’ at 0.001’’ increments. Check out Terry’s Jag
Parts (US Tel. 618-439-4444). They offer undersize shims down to
0.075’’ and oversize up to 0.183’’.

Hope this helps.

Carl Hillerns
Medford, MA–
The original message included these comments:

engine. I started to adjust the valves today. The valves,
springs, and cam followers are all new, and they appear to
be too tight, I worked on the intake side today and .083
adjustment shims are the thinnest available and I am only
getting about .08mm gap with them. .1 being what is required.


CGH
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In reply to a message from rv4flyer sent Tue 2 Mar 2010:

Joe,

A typo on my part. I set my valves at 0.010’’ not 0.10’’.

Carl Hillerns
Medford, MA–
CGH
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In reply to a message from rv4flyer sent Tue 2 Mar 2010:

Hello Joe,

When you grind the valve seat, the valve moves closer to the cam
and thinner shims are required. The original seats are usually
good for one or two rebuilds, if they are carefully cut with this
in mind. If you fit new valves to the head, they will probably
need to be fitted to the head because they are too long. The
proper way to do this is to grind the stems so that a middle range
shim gives you the correct clearance, so you have room for
adjustment when the seats wear. You need to make sure that the
stem sits higher than the recess in the spring retainer and that
the shim only contacts the stem, not the retainer, with some
margin. You also need to determine which cams you have to
determine the proper clearance spec, as a production change was
made near your model. Do you have four bolt or two bolt flange
cams, and if they are two bolt cams, do they have a groove around
the flange ?

You may find this helpful:
http://www.jag-lovers.org/ebooks/view.php?
Vbook=Saloons&Vsection=3.5

Paul–
The original message included these comments:

Hi Guys
I hoping the engine gurus of the forums can offer me some
advise on this one.
I am building up the engine on the 70 2+2 I am putting back
together, and this is the first time I have worked on a XK
engine. I started to adjust the valves today. The valves,
springs, and cam followers are all new, and they appear to
be too tight, I worked on the intake side today and .083
adjustment shims are the thinnest available and I am only
getting about .08mm gap with them. .1 being what is required.
I’m worried that I have missed something, and if not, what


PS
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In reply to a message from PS sent Wed 3 Mar 2010:

Thank you for all the responses, The car has two bolt cams
with no groove Paul, and I was settling myself on the fix
being the valves would have to come out and be ground a
little shorter. The head has not had a valve job as far as
I can tell. (only 40,000 miles on the engine) I simply had
it checked and then lapped in the new valves. The problem
is probably the new valves being a bit long. The data plate
with the car calls for six thou, exhaust and 4 thou, intake.
I only have a metric feeler guage set is why I was using
millimeter clearances.

Joe–
The original message included these comments:

in mind. If you fit new valves to the head, they will probably
need to be fitted to the head because they are too long. The
proper way to do this is to grind the stems so that a middle range
shim gives you the correct clearance, so you have room for
adjustment when the seats wear. You need to make sure that the


Joe Hine, 1970 E Type 2+2
Fredericton, N.B., Canada
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In reply to a message from rv4flyer sent Wed 3 Mar 2010:

Joe what is your engine number? I think your data plate may have
been replaced. Jaguar changed the valve gap in later 1969 cars
to .0120 and .0140–which will not help your case but might help
you get it correct. Jaguar revised this in tech service bulletin 1
A 18 (issued dated 1/15/70) states that after engines 7R8688 and
8855 the new adjustment was in place.–
The original message included these comments:

is probably the new valves being a bit long. The data plate
with the car calls for six thou, exhaust and 4 thou, intake.
I only have a metric feeler guage set is why I was using


George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
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In reply to a message from George Camp sent Wed 3 Mar 2010:

This is interesting, the engine number from my data plate
(which I drilled off the car) says my engine number is
7R37748-9. Is the 3 after the R an extra number and the
engine is 7748? If so the engine is before the change. If
the bulletin was issued on Jan 15/70 my car and engine must
have been build in 69 as a 70 modle. The car number is P1R
42148 if that is any significance.

Joe–
The original message included these comments:

you get it correct. Jaguar revised this in tech service bulletin 1
A 18 (issued dated 1/15/70) states that after engines 7R8688 and
8855 the new adjustment was in place.


Joe Hine, 1970 E Type 2+2
Fredericton, N.B., Canada
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In reply to a message from rv4flyer sent Wed 3 Mar 2010:

Joe do not get hung up on the date of the bulletin–I just cite
sources (some do not like that) but that is just when it was
issued. The P in P1R simply means power steering The three is a
bit of a mystery. The cams as you described them were early—look
at the JCNA site and go to concours and look at the series 2
judging guide and see if your engine is not there–there were 3
distinct versions in the US.–
The original message included these comments:

7R37748-9. Is the 3 after the R an extra number and the
engine is 7748? If so the engine is before the change. If
the bulletin was issued on Jan 15/70 my car and engine must
Joe


George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
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Joe,
A quick check at xked.com shows that the 100 cars closest to your VIN
all have 5 digit serial numbers and all but one begins with 7R3 as in
7R3xxxx-9. The outlier is 7R5 which I would guess to be a typo
because the other 4 digits are match the range of the others and
sometimes the 3s and 5s are hard to differentiate. Regarding the
block itself there are known errors in stampings on the cars, it
happened.

FWIW those other cars are all registered as '69s.
pauls 67ots

In reply to a message from George Camp sent Wed 3 Mar 2010:

This is interesting, the engine number from my data plate
(which I drilled off the car) says my engine number is
7R37748-9. Is the 3 after the R an extra number and the
engine is 7748? If so the engine is before the change. If
the bulletin was issued on Jan 15/70 my car and engine must
have been build in 69 as a 70 modle. The car number is P1R
42148 if that is any significance.
<<<<<<<<From: “rv4flyer” rv4flyer@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [E-Type] valve adjustment


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In reply to a message from paul spurlock sent Wed 3 Mar 2010:

Yep forgot it was a 2+2. The 3 should be there—Jaguar forgot it
also in the bulletin as they list it simply as 7R 8855. It should
read 7R38855–good catch.–
The original message included these comments:

all have 5 digit serial numbers and all but one begins with 7R3 as in
7R3xxxx-9. The outlier is 7R5 which I would guess to be a typo
because the other 4 digits are match the range of the others and


George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
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In reply to a message from George Camp sent Wed 3 Mar 2010:

Measure your tappet thickness, as new ones are often too thick from
stock to be much good. OD is usually OK. Check from the top to the
inside where the shim goes with a mic. I bought a whole new set and
just had to take them back, as they were so far off as to be
useless.

Bye,
Dave–
gtrguy
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I am adjusting valve clearance on my 1970 4.2 E-type. I have
noticed that two of the intake valves and one exhaust valve
were too tight. When I took the valve adjusting pads out, I
noticed on these three, the valve stem is slightly lower
than the spring retainer, so the pad is first pushing on the
spring retainer rather than the valve stem head. Is the
valve stem suppose to stand proud of the spring retainer spring?–
Russ Hulting
Loveland,Co, United States
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In reply to a message from Russ Hulting sent Thu 10 Sep 2015:

Yes, and the situation you have is a recipe for disaster.
The valve stem must ALWAYS be above the retainer. The only
fix is to replace the valve, and perhaps the valve seat.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from Russ Hulting sent Thu 10 Sep 2015:

As Ray has stated you have a disaster waiting to happen. It
is not uncommon for people to reduce the valve stem length
to create the correct clearance if the clearance is so low
that it is outside the shim range. This is done to save cost
as the correct way is to have the seats replaced.
You must address this properly using a recognised
experienced with older Jaguar machine shop.–
The original message included these comments:

I am adjusting valve clearance on my 1970 4.2 E-type. I have
noticed that two of the intake valves and one exhaust valve
were too tight. When I took the valve adjusting pads out, I


Phil.D 3.8 etype, XJR6, XK150 FHC, 2.2 diesel Xtype
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In reply to a message from Russ Hulting sent Thu 10 Sep 2015:

Russ,

The top of the valve stem must be higher than the recess in
the spring retainer. You can measure this with the heel of
a dial caliper through a washer. Since this is not a ‘‘wear’’
issue, I would also be looking for incorrect valve keepers
or valves. The only temporary solution for this is a stepped
shim, look in the XK Engine archives.

Paul–
The original message included these comments:

I am adjusting valve clearance on my 1970 4.2 E-type. I have
noticed that two of the intake valves and one exhaust valve
were too tight. When I took the valve adjusting pads out, I
noticed on these three, the valve stem is slightly lower
than the spring retainer, so the pad is first pushing on the
spring retainer rather than the valve stem head. Is the


PS
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In reply to a message from PS sent Fri 11 Sep 2015:

Stepped shims are available from XKs iirc–
Pjwilletts 62 ots, 60 Bugeye sprite
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In reply to a message from Russ Hulting sent Thu 10 Sep 2015:

The problem you have is typically the result of an improper
head rebuild. i.e. - the valve seats really NEEDED to be
replaced, but they were not. The result is the valves are
sitting higher than they are supposed to, and the shop took
the short-cut of ‘‘topping’’ the valves, to create enough
clearance between the top of the valve stem and the heel of
the cam. The ONLY proper fix is to rebuild the head again,
and install new valve seats, to get the valve clearance back
in the correct range. ‘‘Topping’’ the valves is, arguably,
ok, PROVIDED it is not done to the extent that the valve
stem is below the top of the keepers.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Thu 10 Sep 2015:

For my education could you expand on this Ray?

I can see that with the valve stem tip lower than the collar,
the shim pushes the collar down until it hits the top of the
valve.

This will mean that the valve opens less than it usually would
by the difference in height between the collar and the stem
tip.

I can see that this could loosen the hold the keepers have on
the stem. Can these wear to a point where they can fail,
dropping the valve into the cylinder?

Or is there some other problem that I am missing?–
The original message included these comments:

Yes, and the situation you have is a recipe for disaster.


Andrew B. '67 S1 & S1.5 FHCs,'64 S1 OTS www.projectetype.com
Adelaide, Australia
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In reply to a message from abowie sent Fri 11 Sep 2015:

Hi Andrew,
Had this come up when I was doing a post mortum on my’68’s
engine where the ‘famous’ eastern Idaho rebuilder ground down
the valves and used hand ground shims (some as thin as
70/1000). The concern was that the keepers could be knocked
loose and have a valve drop.
Cheers,
Lynn–
The original message included these comments:

I can see that this could loosen the hold the keepers have on
the stem. Can these wear to a point where they can fail,
dropping the valve into the cylinder?
Or is there some other problem that I am missing?


Lynn G.
68/85 ots, 73 2+2, Boise, Id., United States
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