On a '69 S2 OTS should these face into the body of the car
or out towards the sides of the car?–
jwforden
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In reply to a message from jwforden sent Thu 4 Aug 2016:
Mine face outwards and it seems logical that they would for
ease of adjustment.
But there is no reason why this should be logical.–
The original message included these comments:
On a '69 S2 OTS should these face into the body of the car
or out towards the sides of the car?
–
Geo Hahn 1969 OTS 4.2
Mt Lemmon, Arizona, United States
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In reply to a message from jwforden sent Thu 4 Aug 2016:
So much for logic, from the JCNA S2 Judging Guide:
Note: OTS & FHC have two frosted (confirmation requested)
washers with arms pointing to center of
the car - nozzles toward windscreen - 2+2�s have single
chrome plated (has anyone every seen frosted?)
fitting mounted on the rear center of the bonnet with two
arms angled back away from center, each with
a nozzle angled toward the windscreen.–
The original message included these comments:
On a '69 S2 OTS should these face into the body of the car
or out towards the sides of the car?
–
Geo Hahn 1969 OTS 4.2
Mt Lemmon, Arizona, United States
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In reply to a message from jwforden sent Thu 4 Aug 2016:
If you look in the Clausanger book etc you can see them in either
direction on different cars.–
Andrew B. '67 S1 & S1.5 FHCs,'64 S1 OTS www.projectetype.com
Adelaide, Australia
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In reply to a message from abowie sent Thu 4 Aug 2016:
LOL, this is one of my pet peeves. I’ve frequently seen them
turned towards the windscreen even by professional restorers.
My research years ago suggested that they should be turned
outwards but the S2 guidelines make me think that I was wrong.
I recall looking in Porters tome, and other books trying to
figure out which way they went, the only thing I can say is
that they don’t point towards the windscreen.
Cheers,
LLynn–
The original message included these comments:
If you look in the Clausanger book etc you can see them in either
direction on different cars.
Andrew B. '67 S1 & S1.5 FHCs,'64 S1 OTS www.projectetype.com
–
Lynn G.
68/85 ots, 73 2+2, Boise, Id., United States
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In reply to a message from abowie sent Thu 4 Aug 2016:
For grins I pulled out Porter. Maybe who ever installed
them at the factory did their won thing.
Prototype #5 page 94, They point in.
Page 112, 9600 HP, they point out.
Page 136, jaguar publicity still, they point out.
Page 167, production photo, they appear to point out.
Page 174, 1600 RW they point out.
Page 181, 9600 HP, they seem to point in.
Page 433, They appear to point out.–
The original message included these comments:
If you look in the Clausanger book etc you can see them in either
direction on different cars.
–
John Walker, 1969 E-Type Coupe
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In reply to a message from John Walker sent Thu 4 Aug 2016:
The guidelines also suggest that they are supposed to be
frosted.
Mine are shiny chrome, not frosted (but the wipers are
frosted). Since the car came to me with the original paint
and knowing what a PITA it is to R&R those sprayers (and
why would you?) – I suspect that the change to frosted
really occurred later in the S2 production.
Mine is a somewhat early S2 (April '69) so the change may
have come after that.
It simplifies judging if we can say ‘all Series 1� were
like this’ and ‘all Series 2 were like that’ but in
practice a lot of the changes were neither well-documented
nor timed to coincide with model years or series.
Fortunately, I will never have to dispute the point with a
JCNA judge. If someone wants a 100 point car then they had
better read the judge’s manual and make the car fit the
guidelines because that is lot easier than trying to make
the guidelines fit the car.–
The original message included these comments:
For grins I pulled out Porter. Maybe who ever installed
them at the factory did their won thing.
The original message included these comments:If you look in the Clausanger book etc you can see them in either
direction on different cars.
–
Geo Hahn 1969 OTS 4.2
Mt Lemmon, Arizona, United States
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In reply to a message from L.Lynn sent Thu 4 Aug 2016:
ive seen two very low mileage orig series 2 ots cars that
were nozzles pointing out.–
69roadster
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In reply to a message from Geo H sent Thu 4 Aug 2016:
George all of the S2 cars fell under the ‘‘anti-dazzle’’ rules from
DOT or NHTSA. Steering wheel became brushed rear of bonnet vent
became flat finish ww and arms as you note were brushed ww nozzels
were to be flat —in other words anything in the view of the
driver should not shine and reflect sunlight. While your car could
have slipped out it is doubtful as the ports were very tough at
that time and the inspectors were in force. As to why would you
change I would suggest if they were clogged a dealer would gladly
do it under warranty and use what was in stock–at that time I
believe warranty paid 120%. Just for clarification everything in
the JCNA judges guides must be documented except the very few
examples that it is unclear and there is an observation statement.–
The original message included these comments:
Mine are shiny chrome, not frosted (but the wipers are
frosted). Since the car came to me with the original paint
and knowing what a PITA it is to R&R those sprayers (and
why would you?) – I suspect that the change to frosted
really occurred later in the S2 production.
Mine is a somewhat early S2 (April '69) so the change may
–
George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
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In reply to a message from George Camp sent Fri 5 Aug 2016:
My S2 was delivered to Peter Lindner, Frankfurt - though I
do not know if that makes any difference.
Bonnet vent is also shiny chrome on mine.–
The original message included these comments:
driver should not shine and reflect sunlight. While your car could
have slipped out it is doubtful as the ports were very tough at
that time and the inspectors were in force. As to why would you
–
Geo Hahn 1969 OTS 4.2
Mt Lemmon, Arizona, United States
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In reply to a message from Geo H sent Fri 5 Aug 2016:
Geo if ordered to a US serviceman it could. I have owned a couple
of Lindner delivered cars and one that Lindner ordered for
himself.
That might explain things as service men shipped their cars
through the MILCOM and from experience they got little if any
attention from customs or compliance. Remember that would have
been a ‘‘used’’ car and not a new sale import!–
The original message included these comments:
My S2 was delivered to Peter Lindner, Frankfurt - though I
–
George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
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G’Day All,
Mine are sort of loose-ish and where they are pointing varies a bit over
time. Since I rarely drive in rain/wheel spray or clouds of insects/dust it
is somewhat moot. If best direction for best wetting of the screen and
clearing by the wipers at the speed you are likely to need them is the
‘logical’ answer you should fill your water/detergent reservoir and do some
experiments to see which position gives best cleaning result and tighten
them in that position. Since there appears to be no factory document with a
precise fixing direction if you do not ‘show’ the car who cares. If you are
going to show the car look at the judging guide for the particular
organisation doing the judging and set them that way (can re-set for normal
driving or for next maybe different requirements show as is not a difficult
task).
Cheers, John B. 67 2+2 in Oz—
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In reply to a message from jembennett sent Fri 5 Aug 2016:
shiny chrome on the 2 low mileage cars I’ve seen. also was
chrome on my series 2 when purchased in 1973.–
69roadster
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In reply to a message from 69roadster sent Fri 5 Aug 2016:
The literature states that squirter nozzles for the SII were
frosted. The part number of the squirters did not change
though. I have not seen a truly original SII with shiny
chrome squirters.
The finish of the frosted squirters would degrade,
expecially with people polishing them when the car was being
polished, so when any restoration or clean up was done,
replacing them was warranted.
Over the years I haven’t seen the usuals offering anything
but shiny aftermarket replacements. Although when I bought a
new pair from Overseas Motors they were ‘Lucas’ and frosted.
Richard Liggitt–
'70 E Roadster 1R11998, '98 XK8 Roadster, www.XKEBooks.com
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In reply to a message from Richard L. sent Fri 5 Aug 2016:
Richard we have evidently moved again into that area where
documents are said to ‘‘not exist’’ but when produced are wrong.
You as a few of us have done the research on these items. For
this issue the record is clear–FMVSS–later Dot, and NHTSA
caused the changes in our beloved ‘‘E’’. It is incredible to
think that the FMVSS/DOT a new Federal agency would pass the
rules then ignore them. Thousands of cars were turned back in
1968. That is why every importer had a rectification facility
in the free trade zones! So to this discussion the hand full
of rules at that time—no more knock offs–no more toggle
switches–no more covered headlamps—no more shiny bits in
front of the driver–were inforced --Except for the shiny bits
part. All truly SII cars I have seen is exactly as you state!
As you state all replacements are chrome–the UK has little
knowledge of Fed requirements but when you order ww arms or
wipers do not be surprised if they are marked for ‘‘not road
use’’. J-Lamps and element lamps for Jaguars are often rec. with
a lable ‘‘for agriculture use–not for road use’’.–
The original message included these comments:
In reply to a message from 69roadster sent Fri 5 Aug 2016:
The literature states that squirter nozzles for the SII were
frosted. The part number of the squirters did not change
–
George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
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In reply to a message from George Camp sent Fri 5 Aug 2016:
On my OTS from September 1970 said parts are all flat,
definitely not shiney chrome.
Martin–
The original message included these comments:
George all of the S2 cars fell under the ‘‘anti-dazzle’’ rules from
DOT or NHTSA. Steering wheel became brushed rear of bonnet vent
became flat finish ww and arms as you note were brushed ww nozzels
were to be flat —in other words anything in the view of the
driver should not shine and reflect sunlight. While your car could
–
Martin Scherz 1970 OTS 4.2
Esslingen, Germany
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In reply to a message from MartinScherz sent Fri 5 Aug 2016:
And they point to outside–
Martin Scherz 1970 OTS 4.2
Esslingen, Germany
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In reply to a message from George Camp sent Fri 5 Aug 2016:
FMVSS, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, were/are
administered by DOT/NHTSA. One standard, FMVSS 107
covered surfaces that might reflect light into the driver’s
field of vision; wiper arms, whasher nozzels, A-pillar
trim, rear view mirrosrs and the steering wheel hub amoung
other items.
Could be that Jaguar, being a small manufacturer applied
for and received an exemption from this rule for a period
of time. Or could be the rules were phased in similar to
the side marker lights which could be simply reflectors up
until 1/1/1970 after which they were required to be lamped.
I spent the last hour searching for the original text of
FMVSS 107 and can’t find it. Seems that about 20 years ago
the Gov decided the rule had outlived it’s usefulness and
has been abandoned.–
The original message included these comments:
this issue the record is clear–FMVSS–later Dot, and NHTSA
caused the changes in our beloved ‘‘E’’. It is incredible to
think that the FMVSS/DOT a new Federal agency would pass the
–
John Walker, 1969 E-Type Coupe
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In reply to a message from MartinScherz sent Fri 5 Aug 2016:
My SII was built in August and very original. Pointing out
and very shiny chrome…–
Mark 69 E SII OTS
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In reply to a message from John Walker sent Fri 5 Aug 2016:
John you are right–the current version is lost in the controls
section. What is important is the rules as they were written
and interpreted in 1968 (you can find them in the US Archives).
Jaguar received no exceptions and had they asked for one it
would have been in the fuel delivery system (where tons of the
money went). Jaguar certainly got no exceptions in opening the
headlamps and all of the other changes. I have seen copies of
the documents and pictures Jaguar was required to provide to
the Customs folk for locations and accepted changes. Rules were
phased in but the anti-glare rules were in effect when seat
belts and the other changes we recognize as Series 2. The
requirements for front and rear lamps caused serious body
changes to stampings which would have been a very costly
change.–
The original message included these comments:
In reply to a message from George Camp sent Fri 5 Aug 2016:
FMVSS, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, were/are
administered by DOT/NHTSA. One standard, FMVSS 107
covered surfaces that might reflect light into the driver’s
field of vision; wiper arms, whasher nozzels, A-pillar
trim, rear view mirrosrs and the steering wheel hub amoung
other items.
Could be that Jaguar, being a small manufacturer applied
for and received an exemption from this rule for a period
of time. Or could be the rules were phased in similar to
the side marker lights which could be simply reflectors up
–
George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
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