[E-Type] Webers?

E-Type
21

In reply to a message from Nice Spokes sent Tue 31 May 2011:

Somewhere, I still have my old school sling psychrometer…;)–
The original message included these comments:

Boxes of jets and tubes for Webers gets pricy. I’ve seen
racers change their Weber settings several times a day under
certain conditions. With Webers you need to record the
atmospheric conditions as well as your other engine
parameters with your carb’s set up to keep handy for
changing those jets and tubes.To get the benifits, you have

–
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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22

In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Tue 31 May 2011:

What Rayboom said…;)–
The original message included these comments:

engine, Webers really have nothing to add, other than as eye
candy. You’ll spend a fortune getting them properly tuned
(though once setup right, you’ll never have to touch them
again), and you’ll never get the mileage you will with either
SUs or Stroms. You’ll get reduced low-speed driveability, and
an almost perceptible increase in very top-end performance.
I’d stick with SUs, sell the Webers, and use the money to buy
something useful.

–
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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23

What!? Everybody doesn’t have one :slight_smile: And I know right where mine is,
a Taylor IIRC, tho I haven’t used it in 25 years.
pauls 67ots

In reply to a message from Nice Spokes sent Tue 31 May 2011:

Somewhere, I still have my old school sling psychrometer…:wink:
<<<<<<<<<<From: “Wiggles” vrooomie@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Webers ?

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24

In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Wed 1 Jun 2011:

Les;
I understand but have to respectfully disagree with you…
Putting Webers on a street driven car Is sort of like
getting married to a beauty queen and expecting her to fold
the laundry perfectly.
Please don’t take what I say too seriously.
I feel it’s a mortal sin to drive a car with the potential
of a Jaguar on the street. To me their beauty is in their
potential. To use a portion of that potential on the
street is dangerous and irresponsible…
So by my highly suspect logic they all need to be on the
race track…–
The original message included these comments:

Yep, I get it, I really do…this SU vs. Strom thing is, imo, more
emotional than factual…of course, so is the Weber vs Su vs.
Strom thing too. It’s difficult to look at things objectively when
you’re constantly reminded by your buddies that your car sucks because
it sports Stroms.

–
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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25

In reply to a message from MGuar sent Thu 2 Jun 2011:

‘‘To use a portion of that potential on the street is dangerous and
irresponsible…’’

Um…HAH??? I think I know what you’re trying to convey,
but…to use any reasonable portion (I’ll let you other anoraks
argue as to the amount!) is ~EXACTLY~ what the designers were
intending.

I use mine always on street, in limits, and that is in NO
way ‘‘irresponsible.’’

To race on the street is, in ANY car, irresponssible and that
I’ll give you. As you know, these beautiful cars take a LOOOOOOT of
green lubricant to be suitably useful on a track. I’ll go with what
Sir William intended, mostly, that being they be driven on the
street.–
The original message included these comments:

I feel it’s a mortal sin to drive a car with the potential
of a Jaguar on the street. To me their beauty is in their
So by my highly suspect logic they all need to be on the
race track…

–
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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26

Uh, well the car is a beauty queen. And if its a sin to drive a car
with its race potential on the street then there’s a whole bunch of
race worthy cars that shouldn’t be on the street. Any of Germany’s
sports division cars, some/most hotted up Japanese brands, too many to
count. The Jag has its beauty, the others are nice but not in the
same league.
pauls 67ots

Les;
I understand but have to respectfully disagree with you…
Putting Webers on a street driven car Is sort of like
getting married to a beauty queen and expecting her to fold
the laundry perfectly.
Please don’t take what I say too seriously.
I feel it’s a mortal sin to drive a car with the potential
of a Jaguar on the street. To me their beauty is in their
potential. To use a portion of that potential on the
street is dangerous and irresponsible…
So by my highly suspect logic they all need to be on the
race track…
<<<<<<<<<<Subject: Re: [E-Type] Webers ?

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27

In reply to a message from paul spurlock sent Thu 2 Jun 2011:

Hi Guys.
Interesting to see your comments, from both sides of the fence.
I wonder how many would have passed on the opportunity as i
had in picking up these ‘new’ webers (with approx 50 - 60
miles on them) with manifolds etc. for the equivalent of a
decent ‘luck penny’ in closing a deal.
I openly admit, to me, it is a no brainer when it comes to
twin Stroms versus a set of new 45s attached to an ‘E’
engine which is where I found myself at the time of purchase.
Yes the car may be over carbed but all I want from them is
to be running sweet with no intention of full throttle
driving events.I know, to many that may be a contradiction
in itself BUT if I can get them set up correctly to suit my
engine they will definitely stay. Had the car been fitted
with SUs I would have been content to let them stay.
I have never done more than 1000 miles per year in any of my
classics and thats going back over 30 years.I expect the ‘E’
to be the same. Definitely only a ‘dry’ week end and classic
event use.
old jag man.–
The original message included these comments:

Putting Webers on a street driven car Is sort of like
getting married to a beauty queen and expecting her to fold
the laundry perfectly.
Please don’t take what I say too seriously.
I feel it’s a mortal sin to drive a car with the potential
of a Jaguar on the street. To me their beauty is in their
potential. To use a portion of that potential on the
street is dangerous and irresponsible…
So by my highly suspect logic they all need to be on the
race track…

–
old jag man
ARMAGH, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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28

In reply to a message from old jag man sent Thu 2 Jun 2011:

Old Jag Man;
OK if you’re going to use these on the street, please go
to a much smaller choke… (they usually come out very
easy. No need to remove the carb. just loosen the lock nut
on the screw, back off the screw and reach in and pull them
out…
That’s the one really beautiful thing about Webers. the
ability to make all sorts of adjustments without ever
disturbing a gasket… They are designed to be tuned…
Anyway back to the choke, go smaller, Forget trying to
make power,If stock your engine is around 200np or less
(with the Webers) To make 200 horsepower with 45 DCOE’s
calls for nearly the smallest choke available… Yes you can
make a little more horsepower with bigger chokes but not
have nearly as civilized an engine… And only near redline…–
The original message included these comments:

I wonder how many would have passed on the opportunity as i
had in picking up these ‘new’ webers (with approx 50 - 60
miles on them) with manifolds etc. for the equivalent of a
decent ‘luck penny’ in closing a deal.
I openly admit, to me, it is a no brainer when it comes to
Yes the car may be over carbed but all I want from them is
to be running sweet with no intention of full throttle
driving events.I know, to many that may be a contradiction

–
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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29

In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Thu 2 Jun 2011:

Wiggles:
In all due respect you are simply wrong…
The XK-E is a direct decendent from the ‘‘D’’ type Jaguar
which was designed purely for racing and not the street…
Yes they ‘‘civilized’’ it with carpeting etc… but the basic
design was for racing not street use…
As far as appearance well there are a lot of attractive
cars out there, however few (almost none) have the pure
racing pedigree of the ‘‘D’’ type.
As for driving it on the street, The car has a 145 MPH
upper speed limit and driving to the grocery store or even
cruising down the back lanes makes one a bit of a posseur
(IMHO)
For a fraction of the price of an XK-E there 4 door sedans
which will put the XK-E to shame.
So it’s really not about the speed potential, rather the
original intent… Yes Lyons was happy to sell them to
whoever would buy them… But it says more about us that the
vast majority of them wound up spending much of their life
going to and from work rather than being used to their full
potential…
Finally with regard to the amount of Green needed to make
them track ready, It honestly depends on how fast you want
to go… They are perfectly content as a track day car if in
good order. If your goal is to beat others then the old
saying goes,
speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?–
The original message included these comments:

Um…HAH??? I think I know what you’re trying to convey,
but…to use any reasonable portion (I’ll let you other anoraks
argue as to the amount!) is ~EXACTLY~ what the designers were
intending.
I use mine always on street, in limits, and that is in NO
way ‘‘irresponsible.’’
To race on the street is, in ANY car, irresponssible and that
I’ll give you. As you know, these beautiful cars take a LOOOOOOT of
green lubricant to be suitably useful on a track. I’ll go with what

–
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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30

In reply to a message from paul spurlock sent Thu 2 Jun 2011:

Hi Paul;
I hope you don’t take these comments too serious… They are
fine for me but I realize just how few want to, have the
skill (either mechanical or driving) or are brave enough to
push the car to it’s limits on a race track…
It’s about it’s heritage, not it’s ultimate speed… Yes
there are some cheap econoboxes out there that are capable
of going faster than our beloved Jaguars…
However none of them came from the LeMans winning ‘‘D’’ type.
Look at the development of the E type. Compare the ‘‘D’’ type
with the earlier XK 120-140-150 and note how it was designed
as a pure racing car…
There are even details such as the rear suspension on
needle bearings rather than rubber bushings… that remain
pure race car technology… Used right up to the very end in 1975–
The original message included these comments:

Uh, well the car is a beauty queen. And if its a sin to drive a car
with its race potential on the street then there’s a whole bunch of
race worthy cars that shouldn’t be on the street. Any of Germany’s
sports division cars, some/most hotted up Japanese brands, too many to
count. The Jag has its beauty, the others are nice but not in the
same league.

–
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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31

In reply to a message from MGuar sent Thu 2 Jun 2011:

Well, I think we’ll agree to disagree, because I do NOT think
there’s much evidence I am wrong.

However, in your saying this…

‘’…driving to the grocery store or even cruising down the back
lanes makes one a bit of a [sic] posseur(IMHO).‘’

…you sure are insulting a majority of E Type owners, not taking
in the possible truth that your ‘‘HO’’ may itself be the wrong
parameter in this discussion.

Also, without the large piles of green lubricant that is needed
to make an E Type suitable for serious track work, ~that~ would
make one a posuer, if indeed someone felt that, in stock form, an E
Type was ready for aforementioned serious track work. In my
professional opinion, they are not.

Stock, beautiful? Yes. Stock, good race car? Not even close.

Signed,

Paul (the ~poseur~ with many a poseuring mile, street and track, on
his E Type) Wiggles–
The original message included these comments:

In all due respect you are simply wrong…

–
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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32

In reply to a message from MGuar sent Thu 2 Jun 2011:

Actually, I’ve long meant to ask: any plans to meet up with Dick
Maury and his formidable ‘‘The Green Car,’’ to see if you will be
right, in that you can out-corner his car on your ‘‘vintage Dunlop
racing tires?’’ I’d suuure be willing to see that…;)–
The original message included these comments:

to go… They are perfectly content as a track day car if in
good order. If your goal is to beat others then the old
saying goes,

–
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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33

In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Fri 3 Jun 2011:

Wiggles ;
You did alter my statement,
I said you could race a stock XK-E. You altered it to say
it didn’t make a good race car. And then say ‘‘serious track
work’’.
As far as my opinion if a stock XK-E can be used on the
race track, It really depends on how you mean used…
Will a stock one beat a race prepped one? No! But I didn’t
use that as a premise. So no it’s not a GOOD race car.
Newer, or better prepared cars will be faster etc.
Can you race a stock XK-E? Yes, as long as it’s in good
condition. Like any race car you need to respect it’s limits…
However I’ve seen stock ones at track day events and the
like… The owners have a ball and drive off with a silly
grin on their face…
I am so tired of Jag owners doing racing mods like webers,
Headers, upgraded brakes etc. and then never using it for
anything more than to go out to dinner etc.
Come on, make a pass or two at an auto cross. Go to A
TRACK DAY EVENT. Drive in a rally.
With decades of racing experience under my belt I’m
confident of my opinion. It’s true that Stirling Moss
driving the factory DBR2 beat my Jag 3 out of 4 races in the
Bahama’s…
However in one event I managed to beat him. Yes that makes
Stirling Moss a better driver and his Aston Martin faster
than my Jag and I.Yet I feel like I’m in pretty good company.
Finally I did grant you that it was my humble opinion,
And as I said I recognize others inability to race…
However You are free to accuse me of turning a whole lot
of money into noise, because I’m certainly guilty of that…–
The original message included these comments:

Well, I think we’ll agree to disagree, because I do NOT think
However, in your saying this…
in the possible truth that your ‘‘HO’’ may itself be the wrong
Also, without the large piles of green lubricant that is needed
to make an E Type suitable for serious track work, ~that~ would
Paul (the ~poseur~ with many a poseuring mile, street and track, on

–
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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34

In reply to a message from MGuar sent Fri 3 Jun 2011:

That’d make TWO of us, sir…;)–
The original message included these comments:

However You are free to accuse me of turning a whole lot
of money into noise, because I’m certainly guilty of that…

–
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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35

In reply to a message from old jag man sent Wed 1 Jun 2011:

Eugene - no misunderstanding on my part. I was referring to your 67
4.2 and merely commenting on your statement that:

‘I believe it to be pretty much stock as there is no history of
it ‘being breathed on’, has its origional 9.1 head fitted.’’

As I said, there is no such thing as a ‘9.1’ [sic] head, that’s all.

Pete–
The original message included these comments:

I did mention a 380 SLC Merc. in one of my replies maybe
thats where you thought I had a 3.8 E. My 63 Mk 2 is a 3.8
but I don’t think it was mentioned in ref to the webers.
No harm done.

–
69 E-type OTS & FHC, 99 SuperV8, 55 Zealia/Lynx D clone
Cambridge, United Kingdom
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36

In reply to a message from MGuar sent Thu 2 Jun 2011:

The D-type as an overall car was designed for one race actually,
and was mediocre in others. Reims was also a fertile hunting
ground, due to being three straights in a triangle connected by
sharp corners (i.e. good braking and top speed were the winning
combo, not handling). But other than Reims and La Sarthe?
Fuggedaboudit.

But we were discussing the engine and its tune, not racing chassis
design. In terms of engines the D-type was certainly not a pure
race car and the XK was a sedan engine from the drawing board
onwards, albeit a minority found their way into sporting cars. The
E-type was always a Grand Tourer and designed for (and highly
developed to suit) road work, not race work. I’m proud to do a
daily 60 mile commute in mine when I get bored of the bike. About
5500 miles in the last year. Not much but enough to be respectable
and its intended use on the road.

Pete–
The original message included these comments:

The XK-E is a direct decendent from the ‘‘D’’ type Jaguar
which was designed purely for racing and not the street…

–
69 E-type OTS & FHC, 99 SuperV8, 55 Zealia/Lynx D clone
Cambridge, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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37

In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Fri 3 Jun 2011:

Man, you are to be commended, not only for the stamina, but for the
testicular fortitude to front the fuel bill…owowowowow!

Wow…seemed just like yesterday you gave up us that wry thumbs-up…

The original message included these comments:

developed to suit) road work, not race work. I’m proud to do a
daily 60 mile commute in mine when I get bored of the bike. About
5500 miles in the last year. Not much but enough to be respectable
and its intended use on the road.

–
Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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38

In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Fri 3 Jun 2011:

Nice video. Shame that all that racket drowned out the
lovely discussion of Duns Scotus on the BBC. I did so want
to hear more about his very obscure work ‘’ De Geste Tuners
Anglorum’'–
The original message included these comments:

Wow…seemed just like yesterday you gave up us that wry thumbs-up…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evZjVaRwLjs

–
A Blackley XKE Data - 1R41606 - Jaguar E-Type (XKE) information, articles, photos and register
Chardon Ohio, United States
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39

Eugene,
I’m with the others regarding carbs on the car, I had and sold a set
of webers in favor of the original SUs. That said I wouldn’t have
even considered passing up the deal you made. The webers are
beautiful and valuable. They won’t likely ever go down in value and
look good even on a bench.
pauls 67ots

In reply to a message from paul spurlock sent Thu 2 Jun 2011:

Hi Guys.
Interesting to see your comments, from both sides of the fence.
I wonder how many would have passed on the opportunity as i
had in picking up these ‘new’ webers (with approx 50 - 60
miles on them) with manifolds etc. for the equivalent of a
decent ‘luck penny’ in closing a deal.
I openly admit, to me, it is a no brainer when it comes to
twin Stroms versus a set of new 45s attached to an ‘E’
engine which is where I found myself at the time of purchase.
Yes the car may be over carbed but all I want from them is
to be running sweet with no intention of full throttle
driving events.I know, to many that may be a contradiction
in itself BUT if I can get them set up correctly to suit my
engine they will definitely stay. Had the car been fitted
with SUs I would have been content to let them stay.
I have never done more than 1000 miles per year in any of my
classics and thats going back over 30 years.I expect the ‘E’
to be the same. Definitely only a ‘dry’ week end and classic
event use.
old jag man.
<<<<<<<<<From: “old jag man” eugene67@hotmail.co.uk
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Webers ?

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40

G’Day All,
My imagination or is the porcelain getting further away every time I look?
:-))
Cheers, John B. 67 2+2 in Oz______________________________________________________
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