[E-Type] Wire wheels -- balancing

This note is for listers in the Southern Ontario area…-------------

My E-Type is getting a bit shaky at speed. It sure feels like a wheel
balancing issue. Only problem is, nobody around here can balance wire
wheels.

Any suggestions? I’m in Oakville.

Thanks in advance again.

Jeff Booth
71 Ser. III 2+2
92 Ser. III VDP V12

Most places with modern equipment that use cones to center the wheels can
balance the rims. Are you talking about balancing, or tuning? Al 67 & 71e

Hi Al,

Just a wheel balance.

Jeff----- Original Message -----
From: Ao450@aol.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Wire wheels – balancing

Most places with modern equipment that use cones to center the wheels can
balance the rims. Are you talking about balancing, or tuning? Al 67 &
71e

I have heard of shops using cones in the wire wheels and tightened the cone
so much that it loosens the spokes. Is this possible? I have a friend with a
shop and he had a piece that fit into the hub that was not a cone and could
not distort the hub.

Don
65 E-Type
71 SIII 2+2
59 MKI
73 XJ6
87 XJ6

Most places with modern equipment that use cones to center the wheels can
balance the rims. Are you talking about balancing, or tuning? Al 67 &
71e

In a message dated 5/20/02 1:55:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Ao450@aol.com
writes:

<< Most places with modern equipment that use cones to center the wheels can
balance the rims. Are you talking about balancing, or tuning? Al 67 & 71e

With all due respect, I disagree. I really really disagree!
In order to balance wire wheels correctly, the cone has to be loacted on the
INSIDE of the brake side of the hub, and it has to locate on the OUTSIDE of
the spinner side of the hub. In many years of wire wheel usage, I have found
very few shops which have the adapter to locate on the OUTSIDE of the hub on
the spinner side. Shops which don’t have it will usually insist
it doesn’t matter.

Believe me, it really does!

Mike Moore 63 O2S

1 Like

I had a set balanced just last week. They appear and handle fine. I watched
the guy do it and it did not appear that enough force could have been applied
(at least by him) to distort anything. Al

With all due respect, I disagree. I really really disagree!

That makes two of us! Mike is absolutely correct. To balance any wheel (on
any vehicle) it must be centered on the machine the same as it is on the
vehicle. In the case of wire wheels this means using two cones, a smaller
one to fit on the brake rotor side, and a larger one to fit over the
knockoff side. I have found that most tire shops catering to 4X4,s and
S.U.V.s will have them. These are the only concentric surfaces on the hub.
When mounted this way, runout can be accurately measured also.
Phillip

1 Like

Hi, many “old time” shops still have the strobe balancers where
they jack the car up and roll the balance machine to the tire
which has a motorized wheel that spins the tire on the car, most of these
machines are gathering dust in the back , but they work great for our
situations, you also might look into motorcycle weights, the ones that look
like split bullets,they fit on the spokes and you hardly notice them,
Manuel

I presume you are both correct, as the local tire store did in fact use a
cone on both sides when balancing my tires. Al 67 71e

Jeff,

None of the places I tried can do the wheels alone. I’d like to know
too. You can get the fronts done on the car and that’s what I did. They
just jack the car up, spin up the wheel and balance it with a strobe. I
think that type is not uncommon. I wouldn’t think it works for the
rears, but at a pinch you could put the rears on the front and do those
first.

Will you be able to catch my 3.8 when you’ve got them done? :wink:

Clive Wilkinson,
'62 Coupe.“Jeff Booth” jbooth@cogeco.ca wrote:-

My E-Type is getting a bit shaky at speed. It sure feels like a wheel
balancing issue. Only problem is, nobody around here can balance wire
wheels.

The ones I’ve looked at won’t work because the cones don’t make a true
register on the centre of the wheel. You might get someone to do it, but
they wouldn’t necessarily realize this.

The register on the spinner side is the outside taper on the hub which
mates with the inside of the spinner but the cones fit on the inside.
However, I think newer Daytons have a machined area on the inside,
concentric with the taper for this reason.

Clive Wilkinson,
'62 Coupe.

Ao450@aol.com wrote:->Most places with modern equipment that use cones to center the wheels can

balance the rims. Are you talking about balancing, or tuning? Al 67 & 71e

Clive,

If I drove my lumbering V12 at the speeds I think your svelte coupe can
achieve I think that (considering my wheel balancing situation) my dental
fillings would likely be shaken out of my head.

My gawd, if YOU don’t know where I can get these wire wheels balanced around
here there ain’t gonna be no place that does it! Anyhow, hope springs
eternal … hopefully someone’s going to tip us off to where we can get 'em
done. Hey, I’d even drive as far as Buffalo…

By the way, I had a lovely run up to the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum
on Sunday with Monty Brown, also of Oakville, who drove his immaculate Ser.
1-1/2 OTS. There’s nothing like some E-Types going down the road
together… We went up to the airport to say ‘Hi’ to a group from the
Buffalo Jaguar Club, who were out for a spring run. We were touching on 75
MPH + on the trip and its was up around 70-75 that I noticed the shake that
I’m convinced is just an emerging wheel balance problem.

We also got to watch the Lancaster take off. It’s one of the last two flying
Lancaster bombers in the world. My uncle is one of the maintenance guys on
the big bird and he’s always telling me tales of the aircraft. Recently, one
of the engines had some serious overhaul work. If I recall it correctly,
they got the engine back on the four-engined aircraft and poured oil back in
it. Unfortunately, oil started coming out of places it wasn’t supposed to
come out of. It was an ‘Oops’ moment! Apparently, someone had left some
oil seals sitting on a bench. So, it seems we Jag types aren’t the only ones
who get to kick ourselves in the backside every once in a while.

By the way, judging from the number of e-mails the original
wire-wheel-balance question has generated, I can only assume that it’s an
issue close to many of our hearts.

Best regards
Jeff Booth
Oakville, Ontario

71 Ser. III 2+2
92 Ser. III VDP V12 (Cdn. spec)----- Original Message -----
From: “Clive Wilkinson” clive.wilkinson@sympatico.ca
To: “e-type-digest” e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 8:50 PM
Subject: [E-Type] Wire wheels – balancing

Jeff,

None of the places I tried can do the wheels alone. I’d like to know
too. You can get the fronts done on the car and that’s what I did. They
just jack the car up, spin up the wheel and balance it with a strobe. I
think that type is not uncommon. I wouldn’t think it works for the
rears, but at a pinch you could put the rears on the front and do those
first.

Will you be able to catch my 3.8 when you’ve got them done? :wink:

Clive Wilkinson,
'62 Coupe.

“Jeff Booth” <@Jeff_Booth> wrote:-

My E-Type is getting a bit shaky at speed. It sure feels like a wheel
balancing issue. Only problem is, nobody around here can balance wire
wheels.

Does anyone know if the Hunter balancer works on wires? It’s been
well-reported to balance otherwise unbalanceable wheels, but I haven’t heard
any reports on wires…

http://www.gsp9700.com/

Chris

By the way, judging from the number of e-mails the original
wire-wheel-balance question has generated, I can only assume that it’s an
issue close to many of our hearts.

Best regards
Jeff Booth

In reply to a message from Donald D. Hawley sent Tue 21 May 2002:

I’ve also heard that happens if the spinners are overtightened, and for the same reason.

The inside taper is said to expand on the hub and loosen the rear spokes at the same time as the
spinner squeezes the outer taper and stretches the outside spokes. I only read this, but the scource was
reliable.–
The original message included these comments:

I have heard of shops using cones in the wire wheels and tightened the cone
so much that it loosens the spokes. Is this possible? I have a friend with a
shop and he had a piece that fit into the hub that was not a cone and could
not distort the hub.


Clive Wilkinson, '62 Coupe.
Georgetown, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

In reply to a message from Jeff Booth sent Tue 21 May 2002:

Jeff,

If you’re really stuck, McEchern’s Alignment, Armstrong Ave., Georgetown did mine on the car the last
time. He has the antique machine.–
The original message included these comments:

My gawd, if YOU don’t know where I can get these wire wheels balanced around
here there ain’t gonna be no place that does it! Anyhow, hope springs
eternal … hopefully someone’s going to tip us off to where we can get 'em
done. Hey, I’d even drive as far as Buffalo…


Clive Wilkinson, '62 Coupe.
Georgetown, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

I used to use a Hunter in the mid 70s, it would work on any wheel its
adapter will clamp on to. Unfortunately the regular adapter clamps on the
inside of the bead area… right where the spokes go through… I can’t
remember if there was an adapter that would grip the outer edge of the
rim… seems like there might have been, but that was 27 years ago and my
memory isn’t certain…

Nice thing was that it balances the whole assembly…

The one with the strobe was made by Alemite (sp?) of course since nothing
clamped on the wheel, it could balance anything…

–Harold> From: Chris Thompson cthompson@rrinc.com

Does anyone know if the Hunter balancer works on wires?

Clarification please. Do the issues being mentioned concern balancing wires
vs other kinds of wheels or balancing bolt on vs knockoff style wheels? I
have minilites on mine (though from time to time I’ve considered switching
to Daytons). I’ll be needing new tires before too long. Am I going to have
a hard time getting a balance at a place like NTB or Sears? Is there any
reason at all why we should need to have those stupid balance weights on the
outside of the rim? It really ruins the look and probably the finish as
well. Can’t they mount them on the inside rim?

Eric

In reply to a message from Eric MaLossi sent Tue 21 May 2002:

Eric,

It’s because of the wheel hub and the way it is centred on the car hub. It will be the same for you. You
will still have the same register points on the Minilites as the wires, if they’re splined, so it makes no
difference. Nothing to do with the spokes.

If you look at my previous post, (or Mike’s) I explain why. One thing may help you though, because
your wheels are aluminum, they may have a reliable machined area on the inside that will centre on the
cone.

BTW, The guy who did mine offered to put the weights on the inside if I wanted. I don’t know if it makes
a difference. I had them put on the outside.–
The original message included these comments:

Clarification please. Do the issues being mentioned concern balancing wires
vs other kinds of wheels or balancing bolt on vs knockoff style wheels? I
have minilites on mine (though from time to time I’ve considered switching
to Daytons). I’ll be needing new tires before too long. Am I going to have


Clive Wilkinson, '62 Coupe.
Georgetown, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Oh and while on the topic. When I do finally break down and order new
tires, I’d like to renew the minilites. The outer rim which is machined and
clearcoated has gotten kind of tatty, particularly on the rears for some
reason.

I’m not sure how to handle it as there is obviously some faint corrosion
where the CC has come off, and even were I to chem strip off the rest, I
doubt that it would look uniform anymore. I can only think of two things
that I could do:

a. Fully polish the whole outer rim, which I think would look kind of gaudy
(plus I’d rather have bamboo shoved under my fingernails than have to do all
that polishing)

b. Have them blasted, and then clearcoat again. I’m not sure how that would
look though. Has anyone ever done CC over freshly blasted aluminum?

I also wonder whether it might be possible to have a machinist take a couple
passes over them to create a new uniform surface. They were obviously done
this way at the factory right? I’ve never been to a shop with a large
enough lathe to do that sort of work though.

Thanks
Eric

Of course, the one I used in the 70s wasn’t anything like the one advertised
in the link… the one I used balanced the wheel while it was on the car…

–Harold> From: Chris Thompson cthompson@rrinc.com

Reply-To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 22:03:33 -0400
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [E-Type] Wire wheels – balancing

Does anyone know if the Hunter balancer works on wires? It’s been
well-reported to balance otherwise unbalanceable wheels, but I haven’t heard
any reports on wires…

http://www.gsp9700.com/

Chris

By the way, judging from the number of e-mails the original
wire-wheel-balance question has generated, I can only assume that it’s an
issue close to many of our hearts.

Best regards
Jeff Booth