I need that engine! That is beautiful!!!
Chaz, it sounds like a sad and sorry tale.
To own and drive old cars ideally you need a reasonable amount of mechanical knowledge, even if you do not have tools, facilities and physical ability to work on them. Then you can make better decisions about what needs doing and what is worth doing.
If you do not have the knowledge this forum can be a big help. Another channel is a Jaguar owners club, many of which are scattered through the English speaking nations. Although few and far between, you can find good mechanics with V12 experience.
The history of your car to date, and of the various people who have worked on it, means your next decision is critical. Even the best and most honest mechanic will charge you at least $8,000 for a complete engine rebuild. That will not cover other work that might need doing, such as fixing the radiator, aircon, wiring and a host of other things that could be wrong. Even so, at the worst I would not expect a total over $12,000 but there is no guarantees on that. You might strike lucky and pay much less.
There is a lot of luck in buying older 2nd hand cars. You bought your '91 car at about 9 years old and if well looked after should have been in good condition. Looks like a combination of a dubious car and/or dubious mechanics has turned out badly.
Decisions to make:
- Get a 2nd opinion from another mechanic.
- Check 2nd hand engines. Cars from snowy winter areas can rust out well before the engine is worn out. You might score a good engine still running in a car being scrapped.
- Might be time to sell the car. If in generally good condition it could be O.K. for somebody who likes XJ-Ss and can rebuild the engine themselves.
Norman, he has a great reputation. When I spoke with him he even said some parts may not have to replaced, not something a dishonest mechanic would normally say. but that was before tore down the engine. He took me through and showed the various issues for the regular rebuild. My automotive knowledge is limited to changing batteries, fixing flats, filling my tank, adding oil, and recognizing small issues, etc. Not much to talk about from my end. But I trusted his evaluation based on the things he noted. I never expected my engine would require so much work, given all the money Iāve already spent. Bad repair in the past is a huge issue also. In fact, when he quoted the initial parts replacement, it was in line with other estimates. but that was before he had completely torn down the engine and saw the condition of the harness, which will have to be made. His lot is full of Rolls, Jags, Rovers and et al vehicles. I checked him out on yelp and used other sources. He has a good rep.
Doesnāt make me feel any better. lol
I do not trust YELP!!!
I do have some mechanical skills. But, the years have taken their toll. Fewer and fewer tasks that I once did are no longer possible.
Yank and replace an engine!!! Did that in 2001!! Today, no wayā¦
Read, study and see what it is all aboutā¦ You tube has some good stuff. but, some is not goodā¦
I paid to have rebuilt rear calipers installed in my 83 XJ wuzza 6. No longer witn my physical ability. And never did it before on an IRs carā¦ Lots of reading here and I had the idea of what it entailed . I bought the parts at Rock Auto. Not too bad. and no cores to mess with. The old ones are in my shop. Why? I have no answerā¦
The labor was 600 bucks. Fine with meā¦
Carl
CHAZ, somethin like a woman, if it dont go fast, then make it look pretty!
ron
Chaz, i will sell you the complete car, its 100% rebuilt for performance , and it is FAST!
$45,000. i have some spec sheets i could send.
where you located , i,m in TEXAS!
ron
Just complimenting Ron. My car is quite nice too, just needs an engine.
Awesome engine though!
Gets lots of compliments when its running. Itās good solid B
condition and convertibleā¦ All original body/paint. Of course, engine is in pieces.
I live in a beach town, 100k people. Under those circumstances, if heās bad, word gets around. so far I havenāt heard any bad gossip and did some checking. My description of what is happening with my car is
based on my lack of knowledge and description of the issues.If you spoke with him, youād probably say, I get it because his explanation would be more in lne with the real issues. In most cases one can only keep their fingers cross and unless one hears something that sends up red flags, itās bite the bullet.
Sorta like oneās wife or long time girl, you donāt get rid of her because she has a bad year. Then thereās habit
and the old shoes scenario.
When we first spoke,he stated around $8500 assuming no big surprises. That seemed fair. parts initially was $3,200, also within the range of
quotes given me by others. Apparently as the engine revealed itself, many issues werenāt anticipated, new harness (old one canāt be repaired ) etc.
but as he showed me the many new issues, even then I assumed possibly 12k. But Iām not doing the work and replacing the parts. I can often
get a good feel for dishonesty. I also ask lots of questions. but with anything one has to ask the right questions. Hoping its 15k, not 18k.$
Much of the later problems was the bad work done before I purchase the car and admittedly I should have been suspicious, but that was my first xjs.
What could be so badā¦right. There are people who purchase cars only to realize they canāt afford to keep them. And the repairs are shoddy with bad
parts and improvised repairs.until the engine is broken down or all the parts replaced, then the issues become clear.
Good donor engine. Unless one has a history of said engine, that could be another 15k too.
Iām the same as you. I was born and raised in SoCal spending lots of time at the beach and have had my Jag for over 25yrs. I now live in the Sierra foothills in Northern Cal. I just finished re-doing a purchased head for $500 with the whole cost coming in at under $3500 and it runs as good if not better than I remember when I got it over a couple of decades ago.
My biggest battle was with my son who wanted me to get another car altogether. My repair of the head and doing all of the backlogged maintenance from across a 3yr period was a lot more economical, satisfying and fun than a new cheap car and monthly payments and then having to deal with maintenance on something I had no knowledge of or experience with not to mention monthly payments. In a situation like that I would naturally feel like kicking that Jag replacement over a cliff, the natural response to having problems with a new car.
At 76 my decision was naturally the best, doing all of the work and logistics myself. Iām really enjoying it and getting compliments once a week minimum in a town of 50,000 where I also donāt get out that often only logging about 70 miles a week and doing a winding, hilly, 1500+ up and down altitude change per outing. Itās running as good or better than it did when I got it at the dealership.
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Iām not sure how your car, which is low mileage and newer than my 88 v12, could be that bad for all this work to be done.
Mine was slightly neglected, and sat for 7 years. Yet after replacing a lot of parts, it runs great. The core of these engines are well built, and unless yours sat outside in a field for 10 years, and the PO ran it with low oil, and constantly overheated it, I just donāt see how it could be so deteriated.
The engine is pulled apart already ? I did not realise that.
Do you mean he has totally pulled it apart, taken the crank out and all the pistons out ?
That is a lot of work to start with.
Usually with a V12 you need new gasket sets, a chain, rings, bearings and a few odds and ends.
That can be $1500 to $2000 depending on what brand you buy and who you buy it from.
That is basic cost, but you can also spend money on having parts cleaned ( tanked ), new chain tensioner, new water pump, head skimming and honing the liners.
It is rare for the crank needing grinding, but it can happen.
Depends how far you want to go, and how good the engine parts are to start with. A full and careful rebuild is a worthy target but might not be best decision if many engine parts are damaged and needing replacing or welding/machining.
In that case being patient and looking for a good 2nd hand engine might save a lot of money.
I bought my '88 convertible 11 years and it had the usual initial problems that cost me around 100 hours of work but not much money. The engine is still very good at 140,000km, just one tiny oil leak.
I do not think it had brilliant maintenance from any POs, but it was adequate.
If such a car got rear ended and written off by the insurance company, or failed a roadworthy test due to serious body rust, that engine could sell for $2000. There would be a very good chance the engine will do another 140,000km, or double that, with careful routine maintenance.
My guess is every year in the States 2 or 3 hundred XJ-Ss get scrapped or hidden away in a barn for some reason. Many will still have a good engine.
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Chaz
He may well be as honest as the day is longā¦but perhaps you should look at the decision with a ābusinessā hat on and consider if it is worth spending the money he is telling youā¦or simply āinvestā 
in a whole new XJSā¦up to the same amount you are being asked to spendā¦You can mitigate the risk by carrying out certain tests and asking this group of enthusiasts for assistanceā¦possibly an option for you ??
Yes, unless there is sentimental value, you could buy a very nicely restored XJS for $15000, and part out your old XJS for perhaps $1000s. That rear IRS you have could fetch a few grand by itself.
Hard part is dismantling.
From my seat it looks like heās tossing out a big number just to see what happens. āRun it up the flagpole and see if anyone salutesā.
Shops will do that. Sometimes they really donāt want the job and theyāre hoping the customer gets scared off.
Or, simply, If the customer says āOKā, well, he knows he can spend at least that much of your moneyā¦and itās enough to make the job attractive to him.
For a lot of people, just finding a guy willing to work on a Jag V12 or Rolls Royce is cause to celebrate. He probably doesnāt have much, if any, competition. Since he has a shop full of high-end specialty cars, and a good reputation, he probably doesnāt have to worry too much about pricing.
If you say āNoā he still has a shop full of cars belonging to people who said āyesā.
Iām not saying heās a bad guy or that heās dishonest. Simply, if heās really good and willing to work on oddball cars, he can pretty much call the shots.
Cheers
DD
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Rebuilt my 1987 V12 back in 2007 my myself at a total expense of new parts being under $4,000. Engine had a blown head gasket on āAā bank.This total included NOS heads and having a engine rebuild shop grind all valves with a three angle grind.
All new exhaust valves but reused intake valves. Only additional cost where for shop equipment including hoist, engine stand, ring installation tools. and chemicals.
Suspect of the shop you have selected if they are telling you it needs to be bo
Attached picture shows liners before honing.
Was working full time during rebuild and it took me 7 months and do not have accurate guess as to actual time spent rebuilding but think it would be more than 70 hours.
Was also given an āestimateā of over $12,000 for a complete rebuild. Bottom line is that have put over 60,000 miles on rebuilt engine and it still runs great.
Best of luck on your repairs.
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Well stated. I had another shop that work on my jag within the area for two years. I had exhaust noise form a pipe that had o be removed/replaced,butthey
never got back with me after several conversations about locating one or having one made. I assumed hey didnāt want to do either. their stated cost
just for that was around $1200 assuming no other issues and I still had numerous oil leaks that would have eventually caused other issues. Although I had
trust with he other shop, their hesitancy to make an effort to fix the exhaust noise signal tome they probably didnāt want to deal with it. Some shops donāt get
a thrill working on these xjs carsā¦lol. This new guy didnāt seem to have problem replacing the exhaust pipe and that was key for me. He offer alternatives like welding
or making another one. Iām old enough to be skeptical given my past experience, but no knowledge of this car and its complexities. At some point, I had to trust someone
or the car would sit until hell freezes over. Some hints heās given me during conversation allowed to convince myself i have to bite the bullet. having seen numerous types of vehicles
during my visits and theyāre no long there when I return allows me to believe theyāve been repaired āwith customer satisfaction?ā And I havenāt read any bad reviews or complains thru the BBB
or other. Basically I donāt have many choices and as he stated, if you canāt afford these cars, you shouldnāt have one.
Many thanks for your feedback. Other points of view are much appreciated.