Hi All.
The front cross member on my Daimler has corroded past repair, so I need to replace it.
It looks to be a relatively straight-forward job to me, but I’m wondering what degree of bracing I am going to need seeing as the cross member looks to be a fairly crucial part of the front end.
I’m thinking I’d measure the diagonals across the front before starting , then brace the front before cutting the member out. I could then check and adjust as necessary when fitting the new member (the price of which I thought was very reasonable).
Are there any hidden dangers I’m not aware of ?
The entire front subframe UNBOLTS. The unit is secured at 4 points, 2 in the front and 2 at the rear.
You can replace the metalastic mounts front and rear.
Are you going to cut the BODY???
bob
you will support the engine as well. with something like this.
I used two of them one for the front "engine hook and one for the rear.
My Classic British car specialist made where the part the holds the engine ran parallel and 4 legs supporting the engine.
Disconnect the power steering,
Loosen the brackets holding the horn and possibly ignition wires as well the power steering hoses
disconnect the power steering hoses from the steering rack
Mark the ujoint and steering shaft before disconnecting This will hopefully minimize the fiddle factor of getting the steering in the right place.
disconnect the steering shaft from the steering rack
place a trolly jack or something to safely lower the front cross member. I used a motorcycle trolly lift
remove the two horizontal bolts in the front, expect for the front bolts to put up a fight, more than likely they’re rusted in place and then the two in the rear.
then the front suspension will come out in one unit.
Seem to remember at the factory we used to support the front of the car on two axle stands and the front of the engine ,on a bar that located on the inner wing channels?
A fairly easy job on a car straight off the line,not so easy on a older car! The equipment we had then was pretty crude I suppose. Can see modern day assembly plant workers lying on thier backs under Cars all day! If we had a bad run on steering rack leaks for example,you could be changing front axle beam assemblies all week!
Nigel,
wow - was that the level of fitness of the new racks? No wonder then that they have a reputation for leaks …
Mine has started to leak and I’ve done quite some research to find the ZF rack that was used on the last XJS cars that is supposed to replace the original one. Unfortunately, they ask a quite stately amount of money for these racks, so I didn’t proceed.
Dave,
the SII ROM describes the way Mark has suggested. There is even a special tool (engine support bracket MS.53) looking pretty much like the one in the picture above. They do the entire job on the floor, install the engine support bracket, then raise the car with a trolley jack beneath the center of the cross beam, put the car on jack stands on the front jacking points and finally lower the trolley jack to get the suspension out.
Good luck
Jochen
75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec.)
I tried to reply using my tablet but it doesn’t seem to want to communicate with the rest of the world.
The lower front cross member is a box section that holds the front of the car rigid. Nothing to do with the front sub-frame (,as far as I can see)
I had anticipated that I would clear stuff like the bonnet, bumper,and radiator out of the way then set about the old one with a disc cutter before welding a new one in.
I was just wondering if there were any unexpected issues that I might come across?
I wondered if that’s what was meant. I replaced the “radiator yoke” as I called it, on my first Series 1. It had rusted out like everything else on the car. I had absolutely no idea of what I was doing. IIRC I replaced a pair of vertical pieces as well. I didn’t brace anything, but the job seemed successful, even with dubious welds.
In those days, I found vendors in Hemmings, as there was no internet alternative. I recall that the vendor I used was very “colourful.” I had purchased a new fuel filter element, and the cost was astronomical, or so I thought (maybe $20; can’t remember). Anyway, this guy agreed to supply me with a complete used front crossmember, including the side pieces, in exchange for the returned fuel filter. It was a great deal.
Good to see you, Dave, on the new J-L list.
I was just thinking the same thing.
Unfortunately, I daren’t ask him how his 1996 XJ12 is going, as I believe it threw a rod or piston 6 months after I sold it to him!
The XJ11 (sic) had a piston and a valve that both wanted to be in the same place at the same time. I couldn’t raise the enthusiasm to repair it so it got scrapped.
To be honest the best thing about the car was the memory seats.
I’m running an XJ8 now.
I’ll take pics of the Daimler cross member replacement and do a write up when it’s done. I’m looking at mig welders at the moment. Going to treat myself to a new one.
Yeah, Dave, My welcome as well. great to see the guys coming in, one by one, or more.
I “treated” myself to a MIG welder. Coated wire, not the better version with a separate flux via an inert gas.
I’ve not gotten even close to “mastering” it. I’ve managed a few awful looking welds that passed the hammer test. And, a few that failed miserably.
My talented son holds MIG in disdain, as a mere different form of basic "stick’ welds.
He has a pair of very sophisticated TIG units and has mastered their use.
But, if you do choose MIG, shop carefully.
Sadly, I can not come up with the former guy that
mastered the MIG in “impossible” patches of his two rust buckets. OTH, he was a nuclear engineer by trade, so ???
Carl
Dave,
sorry if I got you wrong - you weren’t talking the part running underneath the front suspension, but rather this one
Frankly, withou any idea of engineering I’d guess that as long as there are no dynamic forces, i.e. the car stands still, the engine is in place and the bonnet locked, you can weld out that lower part of the front rectangular box structure and weld a new one (JS.694 and 12101) in place without any bracing. Maybe you tie the box structure together with strong nylon straps, just to be sure.
Good luck
Jochen
75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec.)
Let me see if I understand, You picked up Flux core MIG welder. youtube is your friend. look up weld.com and weldingtipsandtricks I watched video after video for nearly six months; took what I learned from those two channels, and taught myself how to weld. Also, thatlazymachinest channel is really good about metallurgy; which is something you’ll want to learn in order to be successful at welding (that’s of course you don’t already know).
I bought a flux core MIG, but returned it because I didn’t want to have clean up the spatter. I have very limited experience with flux core what I do remember is flux core can be rather finicky of what you’re trying to weld, and the type of flux core wire you’re using.
I’m not a certified welder, but I do weld. I am with your son went on to TIG I have an alpha TIG 200X it’s a 200amp AC/DC inverter TIG machine. I also have an Oxy / Acetylene kit as well. I enjoy welding old school with gas. I like the control and flexibility of gas welding. but when doing sheet metal work, TIG is really the only way to go. much smaller heat affected zone, less filler metal and the welds are softer than MIG, which makes it easier to form a welded panel. The other thing I like about TIG is if I’ve got a spot on fit up I don’t need filler wire, I can melt the two base metals together.
With a ton of practice I got to the point where I can weld two razorblades; blade to blade weld with stacked times weld. To knock myself off my bragging perch, it took me about 22 razorblades, and I never was successful at not burning through at least one hole in the blade, but the last pair id just had a hole at the start, and then very end. but in the middle stack of times. 5 amps 1/16 tungsten and .40 ER70S6 filler wire.
Sorry, I like to talk about welding…
CAVEAT:
Indeed, I think there is a danger of 'wing spread or twist". The engine bay is a neat cube. When complete, a very strong structure, bested only by a sphere.
So, removing the front top connector and the one directly below it crates a “U”… It may or may not have entrapped “energy”.
In an abundance of caution, I would provide temporary bracing. I would choose steel.
Examples:
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Early Mustangs featured a similarly configured front bay. Oddities in wheel alignment after years of service have been traced to chassis spread! . The fix was forcing the member back in place and doing better welds.
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Circa 1952, I was altering the chassis of our group owned 30 Ford A to bring it down lower and add v8 power. I had a great toy, an Oxy acetylene torch. I was getting the hang on how the flame worked best. I cut the A’s frame at about 12" from he rear cross member. Big mistlake, it spread about 2" !!! A friend and I wrestled with chainand hack til we got it back. I bolted in a chuynk of angle iron to hold it ands then proceed to make the “Z” splice.
Decades, later. Another “A” Ford frame to lower.
Same process, but improved. And, First came the angle brace, then the cut. This time at a 45 and with a hack saw. Really cut much easier than I thought and much cleaner. No flying chassis parts…
Carl
I had a stick welder for a time. I did manage some ugly, but strong joints. The grinder made them passable. No auto helmet at the time made striking an adventure. And, I did learn that a pre warm of the metal with my torch improved the strike as well as keeping the arc “alive”.
I just might refill my tanks this summer and make some seams…
Carl
If one needed peace of mind, and had time…meh…
Removed many a front x-member, up to a 420, never saw a spreading issue.
Now I’m getting a tad confused.
The cross member is a box section that holds the front of the car rigid. Nothing to do with the front sub-frame. (As far as I can see).
I anticipate clearing things like the bonnet, bumper, radiator out of the way then getting stuck in with a disc cutter before welding a new cross member in.
I was just wondering if there were any unexpected issues.