If the plates stuck to the flywheel or cover drive plate it can usually be freed up. However if the clutch plate center is seized on the splines it’s probably going to be a stripdown.
Do you know how this car has been stored for the last few years? Was it by any chance on a dirt floor or outside?
Covered in a dry garage. The current owner is the son of the original owner who passed away ~4 years ago. He babied the car for 50 years, under 60K original miles, never crashed, pretty pristine. The family followed suit after he passed, hyper-protected the car just never managed to get it out! Now they’re suffering the consequence, which is surprising because they were clearly instructed by the dad to “drive this car at least once a week or you’ll start having problems”. Live and learn, hopefully it won’t be a $10K lesson
Just to update I am still unable to get this fork to move. I shot it a couple of days in a row with PB Blaster then bonked it back and forth the best I could with a 4lb dead blow, but no additional motion. Even tried a bit of heat. It seems the 1-2mm of motion is the bushing moving ever so slightly in the bell housing ears, no motion of the overall shaft in the bushings.
I would think that even if the bearing itself was cocked and wedged in somehow that by hitting the fork toward the front of the car it would release it, but nothing.
I’m encouraging the owner to start looking for a place to take it so it gets properly handled.
Any other thoughts or techniques come to mind? I was thinking I could drill a wooden block that the slave rod could slide into, then I could hook the pin back up to the fork, and bang on with a bit more authority, but there’s not enough room with the slave installed. I’m working with the side of the car slightly lifted on jack stands, not a pit or lift, so my striking window is pretty tight. I don’t want to bend/damage the fork which would guarantee an engine pull.
There’s room to slide a crowbar or large screw driver between the fork and the opening of the housing toward the front of the car where I could try to pressure the fork forwards, but I’m afraid it would damage the aluminum housing. The housing itself would provide the leverage so I haven’t gone there.
Thanks again folks, enjoy,
Steve
I think it’s headed for an engine out. Something is quite wrong here. I would not use a pry bar on the fork if it can’t move in either direction with the rod removed. Something is going to break.
1 Like
So it sat about four years and it is that frozen? Did it sit in a flood? Surprising, but worse has happened. If your alternative is to pull the engine and trans, I would not be quite so worried about damaging the fork. I would not try to damage it, but I would try desperate measures. My suggestion, spray as suggested, get someone to stand on the clutch pedal with extreme force, then shock the fork from underneath with a mallet. What do you have to loose, a fork? I would not pry on the housing, I would think that may break. I, as others, are assuming that you have properly diagnosed this as a fork that is frozen to the pin. Personally, I am not as convinced. 4 years of garage rust, I would think the hydraulics would loosen it. Is this a common problem I have not heard of? How well have you been able to look inside? Time for a bore scope?
Tom
I’m not so worried about fork damage. It’s a pretty robust part and not too hard to find if damaged. But if aggressive force on the fork damages the bell housing fork ears, that’s a lot more expensive. Plus if it’s that bad off, it seems unlikely that it will suddenly free up and be fine without deeper work.
2 Likes
I agree with Erica: time to pull the engine.
1 Like
Thanks Tom, it seems the most likely candidate, however unlikely. The garage is clean and dry and there’s no obvious surface rust anywhere on the car, it’s really odd. I’m in a club that has a team that helps remedy these issues; they do have endoscopes which I think is probably the next best check.
Also I agree with Erica, I may be able to free the fork just to uncover the next item of neglect, like frozen rear calipers or some such.
Get out and drive em!
1 Like
My engine and trans sat for years and the. Clutch plate and flywheel were frozen together
It wasn’t rusted but just the plate material stuck to the flywheel .
Hi Folks,
Most recent update on the clutch fork. I was able to use a boroscope to peek into the bell housing to see what’s going on. There are some videos on this dropbox link of what we saw. Any video starting with “J” is from the problem car; those starting with “S” are from a reference car.
The fork pivots seems to be moving in the ears without issue, the fork just can’t move. It appears the pressure plate has extended the throwout bearing surface too far rearward and the fork is at the rear of its travel - its basically up hard against the rear of the bell housing as compared to the reference car where there is maybe 1/2" between the back of the fork and the bell housing.
Problem Car:
Reference Car:
Either this is normal for this clutch (thought to be original to the car) and its just a matter of getting it all hooked up and letting the slave cylinder do its job, or something failed in the pressure plate and allowed the throw out bearing surface to move too far backwards. Can a spring type pressure plate fail that way?
Thoughts from members of my Jag club are in line with prior posters, that the clutch has seized to the pressure plate. The car can run and turn the rear wheels but you will not be able to disengage the clutch. You can’t compress the pressure plate springs with the throw out bearing assembly because the pressure plate face will not release from the clutch face.
This doesn’t make sense to me though because even if the clutch and pressure plate were seized the throw out bearing should still move within it’s freeplay.
I also learned that the car has not sat as long as I thought, it was last driven in November 2018 without issue.
Any thoughts appreciated, thanks again and enjoy the videos!
Steve
Im gonna guess that something in the pressure plate has broken: matters not how far rearward wrt the engine the TO is. It still should push.
Interesting, that doesn’t appear to be a diagram clutch but rather the earlier BorgBeck spring type. Something has very likely broken in the pressure plate assembly and it has somehow hyper extended. Mine make contact between bearing and plate with the fork about a third of the way into the range of the cutaway in the bellhousing and that is with a brand new bearing quite a bit thicker than this one. It might just fall apart once the bell is removed.
I think this is headed for an engine drop…just like mine for a similar reason.
Thanks Erica, agreed on the BorgBeck style. It’s supposedly original to the car which seems unlikely since I believe they were used in the earlier 3.8’s?
It does appear hyper extended though, correct? Should you be able to see the input shaft through the pressure plate in a proper system? There’s a clear shot of the shaft in the first picture above, as well as in the videos.
Unchartered territory for me, I really appreciate all the forum’s insights.
Not sure if this one is similar but the ad says it is a Borg & Beck clutch. Lots of photos of the disassembled clutch. Just in case it might help.
David
68 E-type FHC
Sooner or later the engine and box are coming out!
It looks like the fork shaft (pivot pin) is very loose in the bushings in the bell housing. It seems to be wobbling around in there. It should be a tight fit. If I see it right, the bushings are worn to the point they need to be replaced. The bushings are thin copper and if they wear through, the shaft will start to wear into the aluminum. Not good.
If this is the case (and I am seeing things right), it’s time to pull it out regardless of the condition of the rest of the clutch.
Richard Liggitt
What is the crack that shows up in J5? It looks like it is in the shaft of the clutch fork around the pivot pin. This might be from hitting it with a hammer. In any regard the clutch fork is cracked like this, it’s time to drop the engine.
1 Like
I though so as well. That is the dividing line now, but @davidxk posted some surprising data a while back regarding when the original diaphragm clutches were phased in. I can’t recall when exactly but it was later than the start of the 4.2 as I thought was the case.
I have a B&B out in the garage that was removed from my car a few months back. I’ll grab some photos later. Actually found one on Ebay. It looks like the plate is maybe half inch behind the main housing normally
Here’s the post by @davidxk from May 28 WRT coil spring & diaphragm clutches:
This thread may benefit from a little clarification (or confusion if I get it wrong 
) concerning the clutches fitted to E-Types.
The first 3.8L E-Types were fitted with a 10" Borg&Beck Coil Spring Clutch Pressure Plate
In Feb 1964 (i.e. still 3.8L cars), production switched to a 10" Laycock Diaphragm Spring Clutch Pressure Plate. The 10" Laycock Diaphragm Clutch continued well into the 4.2L cars.
In June 1967 production switched to a 9-1/2" Borg&Beck Diaphragm Spring Clutch Pressure Plate.
So, the original poster’s 10" Laycock Diaphragm Spring clutch was standard fitment to his March 1965 car. Nothing odd about it at all. The 9.5" clutches weren’t introduced for 2 more years.
The 10" Laycock Diaphragm clutch is no longer available. Both the Borg&Beck 10" Coil Spring Clutch and the Borg&Beck 9-1/2" Diaphragm Spring Clutches are available. Using the term Borg&Beck to identify a clutch is ambiguous, as both available types were originally manufactured by them.
If you need to replace a Laycock 10" Diaphragm Spring clutch, you will need to replace all components (Pressure plate, Driven Plate and Throw-out Bearing) with a matching set. You can choose the 10" Coil Spring Type, or 9-1/2" Diaphragm Spring type. I’ve heard that some flywheels are drilled for both types, but I don’t know for which model years this applies.