Does anyone have a good photo or dimensions of the hard fuel line that runs from the pump to the carbs on a 140? I’d like to know the route it takes, where it’s fixed and where it goes in the engine bay. This was absent from my car when I bought it, so I have no reference at all.
Thanks!
Roger,
See attached photos…, note this is of my OTS which is identical to DHC regardless of RHD or LHD (re the fuel line, but not of course the RHD brake pipes/components shown in these photos…
Starting at the LCS pump, note has Nipple connection, not a banjo connection as used for some SU applications, but never Jaguar. Loos out, and a tight turn back against the chassis rail, and passes through a gap in the Petrol Pump Shield - often missing/lost…
Exits the gap in Petrol Pump Shield straight forward through the gap in the chassis outrigger, note the first of four special TRIMOUNT spring clips locate into 1/4in diameter holes in frame.
Exits the hole in the Outrigger Bracket, continues straight and forward, note the second TRIMOUNT spring clip…
Continuing along, forward - through the second and then third TRIMOUNT clip, under the exposed end of the RHD clutch pedal pivot shaft, past the RHD brake pedal… and then a single curve upwards…
Note the fourth TRIMOUNT clip, so known location in its 1/4in diameter mounting hole, just before the fuel-pipe bends upwards…
Note the yellow cap I have fitted temporarily onto the threaded nipple, that then connects to the Flexible/Braided Fuel Hose one end, its other end to the carburetters feed pipe…
No photos of how this looks in the engine bay, but there are no additional clips/supports for the fuel pipe, after the fourth TRIMOUNT clip…
But clearly to do this properly you need an original, or accurately reproduced fuel pipe, and its quite a complex item, with the correct fittings at both Petrol Pump end, as well as Flexible/Braided Fuel Hose end, as well as four of the correct TRIMOUNT fasteners/clips - they are a TRIMOUNT 306 spring steel clip (to accept 3/8in diameter tube) … see pic of my front fuel pipe, after being cadmium plated, ready to install…
Excellent, thank you very much Roger - I couldn’t ask for more detail than that!
I do have a shield: it was missing from the car but your book helped identify it for me, and I even remembered to have it painted black with all the other underbody panels. In the light of your beautiful reference photos I have to admit to modifying the pump connections to take incorrect banjo fittings as the car will be used for touring, and I have had to remove too many SU pumps at the roadside over the decades to skip a small opportunity to make life a little easier. At least it means I don’t have to make that relatively sharp double bend, which would surely need a former to do nicely. All the further forward information is just what I need, so thanks again. I just need to find those clips now.
A word on those trimount clips. Do not push them straight in. Twist them. Same with pulling them out, twist them. They break easily if you force them in straight.
Are those pipes aluminum, not copper?
BTW banjo bolts and fiber washers were used on the Mark 1 fuel pump.
Another word on them, Rob - unobtainium. My car was, for the most part, very original and complete - but some Sacramentian had replaced the SU pump with something else so it came with a piece of rubber hose, minus the clips.
Coventry Auto do a similar clip but it’s not the same and doesn’t fit the pipe size properly, so I suspect it’s metric.
I got mine from XKs Unlimited, which is now Moss. They have them, part C3727, high priced which is why I put out the caution.
Yes, those look the same as the ones I bought from CA. The mount is the same but the part that holds the pipe is completely different from the originals, and isn’t quite the right diameter - it’s not quite big enough, and the pipe has a tendency to jump up out of the clip.
I have the same issue with the brake line clips they sell, which actually look completely correct but won’t take a 1/4" pipe properly. May be designed for the more modern 3/16", don’t know.
Neither Rob…
They are made of STEEL, and I suspect BUNDY tubing…
My pump to fuel tank pipe is original, but my pump to flexible hose/carburetters - as per my photos, was dented by rock damage (shield was missing) so I sourced here locally a length of 3/8in Bundy Tubing (old stock - not still available new in Australia) and replicated the original fuel pipe, indeed re-using, transferring the original fittings both ends onto the new reproduction Tube, then had both the rear and the front tube assemblies cadmium plated, as evidence of my originals indicated. So maybe the steel tubing was not in fact Bundy Tubing as its not usual to cadmium plate Bundy. And you will see in photo the adjacent brake lines that are most definately 1/4in Bundy Tubing, and are not plated. What you see is again new reproduction RHD brake lines, again made from new-old-stock 1/4in Bundy Tubing, with a mixture of original fittings (re-used) and some new-old-stock 100% correct fittings. I was able to replicate all the bends/routing from a set of original RHD brake lines, carefully removed from a local car under long term restoration. And as you are aware - both the 3/8in Fuel Line and the 1/4in brake lines are held in place with Trimount Clips - 3/8in and 1/4in respectively…, of which I was able to source a whole pile of NOS ones locally…
Shame you are not in Australia Roger… I was able to pick up a whole pile of fuel line (3/8in) and brake line (1/4in) TRIMOUNT CLIPS at a local swap meet… seems these same clips were imported from UK new, and used on various model Holdens built in the 1950s. I usually walk past Swap Meet stalls specializing in Holden parts, but something caught my eye, so had a much closer look, and couldn’t believe seeing these NOS Trimount clips as I had just landed some ‘substitute’ clips from a UK (I think) vendor that were no good. Quizzed the vendor as to him having these Clips, and he showed me under the bonnet of his FJ Holden where some of these Clips were used, and his stash came from a closed down Holden Dealership in country Victoria. I got as many as I was ever going to need personally, so haven’t pursued any other Holden vendors, but that’s a good tip for anyone here locally - and I guess also in New Zealand (a big market for Australia built Holdens), looking for these clips - in NOS condition, given the originals break easily when you try to remove them (aged/rusted spring steel)
Roger, I think we may agree to disagree. The beauty of the original NIPPLE connections, is the seal is a accurately machined brass male-nose that sits into the accurately machined female port, and is held extremely easily in place with a collar nut, and they do not leak. And yes, I have also replaced a fuel pump on the road side, indeed on a busy road, after dark in teaming rain, so was really pleased how quick and easy it can be done. The banjo bolt connections, with fibre or aluminium washers, is relatively a total pain in the arse, and is a constant source of leaking/weaping. The SU LCS fuel pump has its ports machined to allow either Nipple / Nut fitting, or Banjo Bolt/Fibre Washers fittings, so if you are looking at having to make up a new fuel line anyway, you should really reconsider and replicate the original Nipple/Nut fitting. 3/8in Bundy Tubing is really easy to make the necessary bends with correct, but simple tube bending tools…, and new Nipples/Nuts are readily available from SU spares sources…
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Thanks for the tip, Roger. Did the job this morning - what you say makes complete sense, and reminded me of my Healey 3000 with its triple DCOEs and multitude of banjo fittings. The smell of petrol was oppressive, and that was before they raised the ethanol content…
Now trying to do the brake lines, but have been caught out by suppliers yet again. The bag of 7/16 20 nuts I bought ages ago is no good - the nuts do not fit over my 1/4" pipe unless I run a drill through them. I suspect over-enthusiastic plating… they also do not have a chamfer around the end to compress the flare properly, just a flat end. Annoyingly, I can’t remember where I bought them so the chances are I could end up with the same again when I reorder.
Hi Roger…try Automec in the UK…great products for brakes/fuel…fittings are top quality…Steve Fittings – Automec
Hi Steve, yes, I use their pipe and other parts. They only sell brass or stainless unions unfortunately, and I prefer mild steel. I’ve ordered some from LS so hopefully they’ll be OK.
L&S Engineering brake pipe nuts are BZP mild steel and perfect.
So are those available from Car Builder Solutions.
The best Cunifer I have found is Automec’s.
I’m actually almost tempted to re-use my original brake pipework, as it’s not even rusty and most of the cadmium plating is intact. Obviously that is limited by the conversion to RHD from LHD, so the sensible answer is to put all of those in careful storage and keep with all the other LHD original parts I’m not using for future proofing. I’m making up new pipes with Cunifer pipework and mild steel nuts.
I have used brass fittings a lot in the past but on dismantling it can be seen that the threaded end of the nut that compresses the flare in the pipe has itself flared, compromising strength. On the advice of a professional restorer I used to work with I switched to steel, as the factories used. I never use stainless in brake pipework for anything due to its propensity to crack or fracture, and the difficulty in forming good flares.
I’m finding some of V&P’s dimensions for the finished brake pipes (allowing an extra 0.5" for both flares) coming up a bit short; although I think this may be down to trying too hard with neat corners and straight runs which the factory may not have been quite so fussy about. And, that said, my original pipes are pretty consistent with the book’s values give or take an inch.