Hi @Cannara Alex, great solution! I was just wondering why you put a resistor in, is that really needed? I guess you could directly wire the fan to the 12V battery in parallel to the heat pump? (Not an expert in this)
In which case, Stefan; each tank is, as said, vented by a hose from the spigot at the top directly to ground level. The fuel separators may be fitted but are not connected…
This open air venting inevitably leaves gas smell, but mainly noticeable outside when standing…
Incidentally, how is the smell with the windows closed? It may help in identifying a suspected area - but leaks must of course still be identified and eliminated…
Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
Good to hear from you, Cannara
Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
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@Frank_Andersen , do you mean the fuel separators (located in the C pillars as I’ve read), are only for Fed spec cars and have no particular function in Euro cars? I planned (at some point) to remove the C pillar covers to inspect those hoses and the separator, but that’s not really necessary if I understand properly?
Edit: the fuel components in the C pillar are called evaporators so I might be mixing those up with what you call ‘separators’?
Stefan
The C-pillar fuel separators gets fuel vapor from the top of the tank - and liquidized fuel is then drained from the separators down to the bottom of the tanks. Hence the name ‘separators’…
The point is that only vapor must reach the charcoal canister. Liquid fuel (which might be forced through the separators by faulty changeover or return valves causing tank overflow) destroys the properties of the charcoal.
Jaguar general practice was to equip all cars the same for all markets - and not connect items not in use. Hence separator may (or may not) be fitted on ‘Europeans’ - and there should be no need to access the separators…
Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
They should be fitted and I thought they were connected but I don’t know for certain.
@Frank_Andersen , @davidsxj6 : taken together the above, I understand it as follows:
→ There is a system to take the fuel extract fuel vapor from the tank and liquidize it and drain it again to the tank. This system is the fuel evaporator set-up in the C-pillar and is connected to the charcoal canister (or is it the same).
→ The purpose is that no fuel vapor gets freed up to the air. Also referred to as closed fuel vapor system here in the forums.
→ However: a closed system is only a requirement for Fed cars. Euro/UK cars, can vent vapors freely to the air.
→ So for UK/EUR cars - whilst the separators are fitted (but maybe not connected)- they do not fulfill any particular role and thus quite possibly are not the reason for the fumes I have in my Euro car.
Is this the correct reasoning?
It’s as good as it gets, Stefan…
One can argue the the the name of the C-pillar ‘thingies’ but the net effect is vapor only to the canister. Where the vapor is vented to open air through the charcoal - which adsorbs (not absorbs) the petrol; the petrol molecules adheres charcoal molecules. Leaving ‘clean’ air to be vented out. When the engine is running, outside air is drawn through the charcoal - and the petrol is drawn into the engine to be burnt…
Liquid fuel reaching the charcoal will be absorbed into the charcoal and will ruin its primary function, solidify the charcoal - and cause problems. Which requires changing canister/charcoal…
Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
There is no charcoal canister fitted on the ‘European’, David, and the tank vent spigot is occupied by the open air vent hose - there is nothing to connect to.
Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
No, home/eu market cars had no recovery system but I thought the separators were connected anyways. Either way there’s just a hose to atmosphere.
Thank you all for your fast and elaborated replies, nice to see the community in action
Well, the fan may make too much noise without the resistor. See what
uouu think!
Stefan,
Thanks for all the info regarding your fuel smell situation. First, please edit your member information to show what car you have and your location. That will immensely aid other Forum members trying to assist.
Next, have you ever heard of gas leak detector dye? There are numerous brands on the market. You add the fluid to your fuel tank(s) then any leaking connections/fittings, etc., the dye will reveal the leak. It’s not harmful to any engine components. I’d suggest after replacing ALL hoses, both fuel and vacuum, if the fuel smell persist try the fuel dye. There is one brand that has a UV components whereby using a UV light the leaks will show up very handily!
Keep us informed of your progress.
One other note and I’m sure I’m going to catch hell for mentioning it but under no circumstance would I add a vent fan! The fan may or may not be “brushless” (i.e. explosion proof certified). If the right fuel-to-air mixture is achieved the fan could ignite the fumes. Fan for battery cooling - OK, For venting unwanted fuel vapors – NOT ME, No THANKS!
Happy Trails,
Dick
@Dick_Wells great suggestion with the dye! You also scared me on the fan
Before I start replacing the hoses and fuel lines: is there a good reference (manual, internet page, forum post) on the correct steps to do so? I know about depressurizing the system, but then afterwards I can start and dismantle all pieces or should I follow certain steps?
Some random blurtings:
Wrap suspected leak areas in colored tissue paper. Even the slightest ooze of a leak (which is what you’re chasing, no doubt) will discolor the paper.
Whatever the fix is, remove your trunk carpeting and thoroughly wash it. It’ll hold the odor for a long time if you don’t.
Although hoses are naturally a first suspect the source might be the pump or the changeover valve. Sometimes these components themselves can develop tiny leaks where the various parts are crimped or pressed together.
Safest would be to do the work with the tanks empty. Each tank has a drain at the bottom. Or bypass the fuel pump relay to power-up the circuit and simply pump the gasoline into containers.
If you want to work with gasoline in the tanks you have to work very fast. It’s a little nerve-jangling. When the hoses from the tanks to the changeover valve are removed you’ll get a very strong rush of gasoline. Small pieces of 1/2" wooden dowel, ground to a point at one end, can be used to quickly plug-off hoses as they are disconnected. Have lots of old towels on hand to sop-up spills. All fire cautions apply, naturally.
Cheers
DD
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Hi Stefan,
Doug gives good advice, from one who owns a like car.
My first choice would be to locate the source of the smell (leak?). It may very well be a hose or it could be a pin hole in a metal pipe or a leaking washer/seal in another component. Until you confirm the source your rather swatting blindly at the problem. Fuel Dye is very helpful with this!
Once you believe you have discovered the source(s) of the smell develop a plan on replacing ALL hoses over 10 years old. For fuel, Marine grade would be my preference. Determine all the size hose (I.D.) needed then purchase a sufficient length to cut/fabricate each replacement. Start at the fuel tanks (heeding Doug’s caution) and work your way forward. If there is a pipe/union/“tee” that can be removed do so and check it for pin holes too! I’ve seen stranger things!
Finally, when ALL hoses have been replaced, all fittings and joints tested and gaskets/washers checked and renewed (as required) you’ll probably still have a strong gas smell in the boot (trunk). Here’s a trick I learned for storing a refrigerator. Get yourself a cheap large can of ground coffee, yes, coffee. Next locate a nylon women’s stocking and some cheese cloth. Pour the coffee grounds into the stocking then wrap in cheese cloth. Lay that in the bare boot (trunk) and close the lid. Keep it that way for a week, a month, etc. whatever it takes to remove the gasoline smell. Toss the coffee rig away when the smell is gone. The smell of coffee is much more desirable than gasoline IMHO>… Ha Ha
Good luck in locating the source of the smell. Inside the car the only thing you should smell is LEATHER~~~ LOL…
On to Happy Trails,
Dick
P.S. Revise you member data to include your location and model/year of your car. It’s really helpful info to the Forum members.
Hi Dick, what do you mean with this?
Hi Stefan,
Excuse my literal thought process. If there are junctions where fuel flex hoses join (metal “Tee” fitting, etc.) with other fuel flex hoses test those metal pipes for leaks. They can (and have) developed pin holes causing tiny seepage/fuel leaks & fumes. Looking at your boot fuel line(s) photo I can see some original Herringbone pattern hoses and other that appear to be replacements. If you’re not sure how “new” a hose is I would recommend replacing ALL. Worm type hose clamps are not up to the job concerning fuel lines. If you replace them with Oetiker - squeeze clamps you can pretty well be assured no leaks fro those connections.
I revisited your posted photo of the trunk fuel lines. From what I was able to see in the photo I would offer several “fixes” to start your fumes elimination. At some point in time it appears two of the fuel hoses were replaced along with their associated factory clamps. Part of your problem may be with the clamps. Worm type clamps aren’t the best for fuel hose application. Jaguar installed C15886/x clamps for a better hose seal. The two replacement hoses have worm clamps, on each end. I would install new hoses along with either C15886/ style clamps or Oetiker Single Ear Hose Clamps to see if that make an improvement. Also the grommets where the metal pipes enter from each fuel tank appear worn out. They should do two things. First, shield the pipe against rubbing (metal t0 metal contact) and seal the area. Consider replacing both grommets too.Some of the fuel hoses appear to be original herringbone design. If that’s the case they are not compatible with Ethanol laced fuel. They also need replacing. Any herringbone patterned hose should be replaced.You may be a victum of a PO’s earlier “repair”. Happens all the time!
Oetiker Single Crimp Hose Clamp. Requires Clamp pliers to squeeze the ears together.
Factory C15886/x style clamp.
Either style of clamp is available from the “usuals”.
Somewhere to start.
Happy Trails,
Dick
Stefan,
Here are some diagrams:
https://parts.jaguarlandroverclassic.com/parts/index/hierarchy/id/C06.C0619.C0619237/brand/jaguar/
To add:
On my SIII, the steel fuel lines that go from the trunk through the exhaust box to the tanks are connected to the tanks via a small section of hose (and not with a fitting like the diagram shows). Mine were seriously damaged.
In order to get access you will need to remove the tank covers.
Also it’s a very good idea to remove the stock mech filter at the fuel pick up inside the tank and install two Hi Flow filters before the pump that you can service and clean in case there is dirt in the tanks.
And of course check the condition of the tanks (from the fuel senders behind the rear lights).
This is false. All S3 are E10 compatible.