Generic keyless entry on SII?

Thanks Frank,

your help is on the spot - as always!

To clarify: I have no clue as to how the remote receiver operates - and there is no bit of documentation on that. It took me a number of emails with the supplier and some online research to find the wiring diagram as shown. We simply have to take as a starting point that “it switches” and that there are two different switching designs:

(1) use K and G: the connection is normally interrupted; operating the switch will close the circuit (which is what I’d need to operate the door lock solenoid relays.
(2) use B and G: the connection is normally closed; operating the switch will open the circuit.

I have confirmed this operation mode in principle with a DMM.

The designation “Power supply for loads” on the right side of the sketch seems to suggest that the RC switch is sitting on the negative side of the load, which is the wrong side for me. Your advice to “reverse” the relay connection and the door lock switch confirms my impression - I’ll think about the effort it’ll take!

Do you have any idea whether there are switches out there capable of switching the power wire? It might be easier to wait and search than turn into one of the dreaded POs that fooled around with the wiring …

Thanks again and best wishes

Jochen

75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)

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The picture shows only the receiver module, Jochen - what about the hand held transmitter…?

The ‘Momentary/Toggle/Latching’ - are they push-buttons or slide switches. In any case - while trying out with the system connected up; use only ‘Momentary’. Which likely operate while the transmit button is held. The solenoids only needs a brief pulse to operate the locks - but solenoids are not meant for prolonged power. Some 3 - 5 seconds is likely safe - a procedural operation…

Delete the ‘Power supply for load’ lines to ‘Load 1’ and ‘Load 2’ on the diagram - and substitute it for the orange/green and orange/red from your drawing to ‘Load 1’ and ‘Load 2’ - that may clarify matters…

The only relevant connections on the receiver is, in this case, likely K1 and K2 - which ‘presumably’ should provide ground to the relays. To test; connect receiver to car ‘GND’ and ‘VCC’ as shown - then connect test bulb(s) in place of ‘Load 1’ and ‘Load 2’, connected to car (+) (NU)…

Press handheld buttons in turn while observing the test lamp(s). In theory; they should now light up while the transmitter buttons are held - either briefly, or as long as a button is held. If so; you are clear to connect the receiver up as described in my previous post…

If not; these are somewhat dark waters. The diagram shows G1 and G2 permanently connected to load supply - this may be required for proper function. In which case; connect car (+) to G1 and G2 - and retry remote…

It seems that the receiver is meant to operate with a variety of load voltages - but needs 12V DC to operate the receiver itself. However, there then reason to suppose, pending other information, that the receiver will operate the 12V solenoids…

Again, if the test lamps lights up by using the respective transmitter buttons; you are cleared to install as previously described…

SE&O

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

Additional, Jochen; the relays just connects ‘G1’ to ‘K1’ and ‘G2’ to ‘K2’ when operated…

So if ‘G1’ and ‘G2’ is connected to car (+) your original drawing with the solenoid relays at common ground is good. And ‘K1’ and ‘K2’ connected at the orange/green and orange/red at the lock switch.

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

I’m finding recent developments and discussion a bit complicated :slight_smile:

May I be so bold as to again recommend…

http://www.bulldogsecurity.com/Products/453055507-model-ke1702-vehicle-keyless-entry-system.aspx

…readily available for $25-30

The manual
http://www.bulldogsecurity.com/pdf/KE100_150_1702.pdf

It can be set for positive trigger, negative trigger, or reverse polarity. I just have to think that this system can be used to (very easily) emulate the function of your console switch. I don’t have a Series II diagram to positively confirm this, but…still :slight_smile:

I’ve successfully installed several of these kits on a variety of cars—Jaguars, Hondas, Fords. I did nothing but follow the directions!

Cheers
DD

Thanks Frank,
now you’re deeper into it than I am. Currently, I’m out of town and we will get back to this issue only later this week, but I will report back.
Best regards
Jochen
XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)

Von Samsung Mobile gesendet

Thanks Doug,

indeed I regret that the thread has become somewhat intransparent. I’m
very happy about your suggestion as the Bulldog seems to permit use
without having to rewire the door lock relays.

Probably, I’ll send back my RC switch next week and try to source a
Bulldog system in this part of the world.

Have a good Sunday night

Jochen

**
First verify that the Bulldog will work directly with solenoids, Jochen…

The Bulldog includes advanced features you may not want, but which complicates installation. Your ‘Chinese’ present system does not require door lock relay rewiring - it will be connected at the door lock switch, and will work together with it to lock and unlock remote or internally…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

At minimum I can verify that the Bulldog system will operate the Jaguar lock-unlock relays…which in turn operate the solenoids. I suspect the Series II cars have the typical lock-unlock relays but I honestly can’t remember if that was 100% determined earlier in the thread.

Unwanted features are simply ignored and the wires unceremoniously clipped off. As such kits go it really is one of the most rudimentary ones you’ll find…thus the appeal.

I’ve used this kit on 3 different Jags and other cars as well. I’m hard-pressed to think it won’t work on the car in question…but there’s always that chance.

Cheers
DD

I just spent a ton of time and ordered and returned a keyless system that was incompatible. Just downloaded the Bulldog system Doug recommended and it looks to me that will work like a charm. And they have a tech phone number if needed. They make it right here in Ohio. I have come to have very high regard for Doug’s expertise so I for one, am going to go with the Bulldog system.

Thank you for the compliment :slight_smile:
Cheers
DD

Jochen,

This is what I think you need to do.

From the back of the console switch piggy back a cable from the brown/blue wire and connect it to the common terminal of the remote relay. G1

Piggy back from the orange/red wire and connect it to the K1 terminal of the remote relay.

When you operate the remote it will connect K1 and G1 together and the door locks will operate.

Connect G1 to G2 together.

Piggy back from the orange/green wire at the back of the switch and connect it to the K2 terminal of the remote relay.

You need to set up the remote switch so that it only operates momentarily. I think you will find that with the remote set to momentary the remote relay will stay connected for as long as the button on the key fob is held down so be sure to only press the button for a split second.

I was unsure that relays on the remote I bought would handle the current so I used the remote relays to operate two separate standard relays which in turn connected the browm/blue to the orange/ red OR brown/blue to the orange/green.

Dave

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The Bulldog is certainly a more advanced system than the version Jochen has got, Doug - the main advantage is that it will operate a variety of AC and DC loads and voltages. He probably should have got the Bulldog in the first place…

The Bulldog list of door lock types fitted to various car makes does not clarify what the differences are - solenoid versus motor versions. In fairness, they also list the appropriate controller/motor required for remote operation on systems without motors/solenoids in the driver’s door - like the SIII. No problem is this case, as the all doors are operated by the lock switch - solenoids in all doors…

In fact; the simplest mounting instruction I can see with the Bulldog remote is to connect the module green/black wire to orange/green on the lock switch, and module blue/black to switch orange/green - and he should be in the ‘lock/unlock’ business. Much like the system he has on hand…

Of course connecting power to the module as per instructions - adding other feature to suit. The parking light ‘flash’ is of course useful for a visual indication…

Frank/xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

Thanks Frank, Doug and Dave,

for your help! As I was out of town for a couple of days and couldn’t actually do anything it didn’t seem to make much sense to create more traffic. Sorry for not answering sooner!

Now, before changing horses during the race, I decided to give it another try with my Chinese box. After all, if it is a switch, it ought to switch no matter whether on the positive or negative side of the load, as voltage is identical throughout the circuit. To proceed I made up a little test bed on my working table:

First I connected the receiver to a 12V source and was ultimately (one initial attempt failed and left me a bit clueless; retrying made my day, even though I don’t know why the first attempt failed!) able to program the receiver and the sender unit. Then I tested with the DMM for continuity and found continuity for B1/G1 and B2/G2 and no continuity for K1/G1 and K2/G2. - I guess that explains the descriptions “B = normally closed” and “K = normally open” (with the terms “open” and “closed” relating to the electric circuits). Then I used the sender and not only heard a reassuring “click” from the receiver module, but could also hear from the DMM that continuity ceased on the B/G connnections respectively was produced on the K/G connection.

Then I made up a little wiring loom with V connectors permitting to piggyback from the door lock switch the brown/blue power wire and connect it to receiver + and G1, G2 (things are made easier here as in the car the loads (i.e. relays) operate at the same voltage as the receiver), similarly the orange/red wire to connect to K1 and the orange/green wire to connect to K2 - actually I’ll have to find out in the car which one opens and which one closes.

In a last step I checked the switching function at the end of the wires with a test light. Good to hear not only the “click”, but also see the test light turn on as long as the buttons on the sender were depressed. BTW, the working mode of the RC switch is “momentary”. Finally, I tagged the wires and wrapped them in cloth tape where they exit the receiver housing.

Hopefully I will find the time for installation over the week end. The receiver housing will only fit to the side wall of the center console rearward of the door lock switch, so the wires need to have some length. To avoid rattling and shocks to the electronic parts I glued some rests of a tennis racket grip band to the base of the housing and I hope to hold it in place with some duct tape.

Of course, I’ll report back as soon as it’s in the car.

Best regards

Jochen

75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)

**
Remember that the K1 and K2 connects to the respective relay coils, Jochen - and G1 and G2 is +12V power to the K1 and K2; connections switched ‘on’ by the receiver’s relays…

In theory; one button on the handheld transmitter should operate one relay, lock’ - the other button the other relay ‘unlock’. While connecting the ‘lock/unlock’ wires as appropriate on the switch is pertinent - the two sender buttons will lock/unlock anyway…

The B connections may be used for other purposes depending on ‘closed’ open’ situations. Like powering an alarm system with the doors locked, disarmed in unlock - or whatever…

The only thing to remember is to not holding the transmitter buttons for a long time - the solenoids needs a second or two to operate…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

Any or all of you are far beyond my “expertise” in this arena.

But, Why not the interior light as a verification that the remote signal worked A door switch as a source of a ground for the relay to complete the circuit. A seemingly simple circuit in the car. Unlike the turn signals with a stalk and a blink feature.

Carl

Carl,

indeed I was thinking about something like this, but then …

The switching circuit only has power as long as you press the button. Putting any lighting or sounding signal (indcators or horn) in parallel would need to remain under the max load of the relays in the RC switch (3A I think) and would only tell that you operated the switching circuit, but not confirm that the doors are actually locked.

So I ended up closer to putting a micro switch at one of the door lock mimics and connecting it to an LED to acually show when the car is locked. It would help me for sure when leaving the car park and thinking “now did I lock that car?”. But this is an entirely new and separate project.

Best regards

Jochen

75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)

**
Indeed, Jochen - I suspect that most remotes just ‘assumes’ that the car is actually locked with the visual or audible signal apparent. Ie, responding to the actuating signal sent to the solenoid motors/solenoids…?

As most systems, and particularly ‘our’ solenoids, are very reliable, faithfully responding to the power signal sent it is likely as good as it gets. Certainly, adding a ‘detector’ to the actuator rod improves the probability, though marginally; to ensure that all doors are locked you need such sensors on all doors. But as increased complexity adds reliability issues. The only foolproof system is to verify manually; testing all the door handles every time - which defeats utterly the purpose of the remote…:slight_smile:

And if you are into projects; you should also consider the ‘railroad’ failsafe approach. Like the rod sensors in series and the audio/visual signal fails to signal ‘lock’ unless all the rods are confirmed in the ‘locked’ position…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

I think I’ve used the ‘parking lamp verification’ feature on just one car, years ago. In practice the lock system is loud enough…especially the older solenoid type…that there’s really no doubt. If the system is working, you’ll hear it !

Cheers
DD

Smart idea Jochen !

In my car, albeit an SIII and an entirely different system from the SII, I managed to make the hazard indicator lights flash twice every time I lock or unlock the car with the remote, like modern cars do.
It started as, I thought would be, a simple project, but was quite complicated in the end , involving one SPDT,and two DPDT micro relays, a delay unit, and an insane amount of hours of trying to decipher the electrical diagrams…
Worked in the end though and I was happy !

A maybe simpler approach would be to feed the horn via a relay to beep every time you lock or unlock.

Indeed Frank, like my Range Rover does…
I think the rod sensors should be in parallel though, and if one wants to go more extreme, with an Androuino board it would be relatively easy. It also opens the road for a whole array of other functions !

Aristides

Hihi … my intention was not to start a thread for building fully digitized Tesla killer Q-ships, but nice thoughts anyhow! Once we’re at it - has anyone ever thought about installing a strongly directed EMP generator to discipline the sometimes rude and uneducated motorists around us? I would gladly retrofit the original distributor for the 1-2-3 ignition currently installed to be able to use such a device …

Seriously, Doug, though I didn’t mention: The loud “thunk” of the power locks in my SII car made me refrain from finding a low power solution to confirm the signal operation.

Even though lock operation is no way bullet-proof (I once encountered a situation where the stitching of the ambla of the door card had given at one door lock recess and effectively prevented the lock “paddle” from moving backward) I’ve never run around the car to double-check lock operation after I had moved the switch and heard the sound in the past and so the “real-lock-operation-check” would give me way more than I ever wanted.

For the moment I’ll be happy if - later this afternoon - I can install the system as prefabricated, set up and with a little wiring loom, without too much hassle - it is lousy weather here, rainy and I have to do the job in a poorly-lit and narrow garage …

Keep your fingers crossed

Jochen

75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)