Headlamps - again...(series I only, please)

All the threads confuse my attention disorder. doing final assembly on a series I FHC which I didn’t take apart and didn’t have all the parts. I just need where to get decent lamps THAT FIT THE FLAT HOUSINGS. Lamps that don’t clear the early housings are of absolutely no use to me. I don’t care if they are original, and I have relay power and an alternator, so they will have enough voltage. When I looked through all the threads I just couldn’t sift out all the options which didn’t apply to the flat housings. Of course it would be nice to have lamps superior to the original. I believe the posts which state originals will be fine with relays, but then which originals? Cibie, etc.? If I buy some and they don’t clear the housings I will be sooooo ticked off.

I do have new reproduction front harnesses.

I believe there was a thread on this topic on the etypeUK forum within the last few years that discusses which headlights fit.

I used standard Hella replacements: fit fine, good light.

Hi Larry, I have the same car. It came with Hella lamps and bulbs - these went on our XJ6 and I fitted something similar to below, which are period correct reproductions. No issues, good light and better than original! There are many variations from English manufacture to Chinese. YMMV. Paul

You and Paul have provided the simple answers I hoped for. The fact that the supplier brags about the quality right off the bat is encouraging. Confirmation of the Hella brand also useful. Original look is a plus, even for somewhat modified cars like ours. Our '64 is goofy as we have a Moss box, stock brakes and interior (sort of), while it has a complete rewire, 4.2 manifold, disc wheels and no front bumpers. Original style headlamps will simply confuse the issue…

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PS you can replace the S1 slant bucket with the later fully round bucket.

Only ones I could find that would fit the S1 buckets were those produced by Wipac. The otherwise superb Cibie is too tall as are the Crystal polycarbonate units. The measurement from the reflector edge to the tips of the bulb connectors must be no more than 3". The Crystal measure 3.75".

!

Same problem with the otherwise superb Cibie’s:

Cibie, Crystal and Wipac lenses for comparison:

Lucas ‘Le Mans’ vertical dipping (can be used LHD/RHD without modification) £120/pair but do not take a H4 bulb:

If you have an S2/3 the Cibie or Crystal units would be a good choice along with the latest Osram Night Breaker Plus or Philips X-treme Vision + 100% bulbs.

David

Thank you David. The pictures are very informative. The “LeMans” may be an option if the Pound Sterling drops to negative territory!

The Lucas PL700 ‘tripod’ lights were used on RHD and LHD cars - except those bound for USA, France, Austria and Sweden which had the fixed focus Lucas F700 headlights.

Reproduction PL700’s are widely available but lens quality is poor. You can tell the difference between an original and a repro unit because:

  1. Repro’s have ‘700 Headlamp’ moulded into the lower edge of the lens whereas originals do not
  2. Originals have ‘Made in England’ moulded into the glass, repro’s usually do not
  3. Originals use a 410 fitment tungsten bulb whereas repros use H4 fitting halogen bulbs.
  4. Originals have a shiny metallic back whereas repro’s have a dull grey back.

David

I have a set of repros on my car and can attest that the lens is pretty awful. Dip isn’t terrible but high is so scattered and diffuse as to be like driving by candle light.

I really liked the drop-in Hellas: they were inexpensive, and the light beam, hi and low, was well-defined.

I bought a pair of real PL 700s around 1973 at a import parts store in Washington D. C. to put in the Ford I owned. The bulbs were sold separately, I bought H-4s. The difference between the standard headlights and the Lucas lights was astounding. I recall the metal backs as being a shiny dark golden brownish color. The glass flutes were sharply molded. They reeked of quality and attention to detail.

They were also rock magnets. I soon bought a pair of clear plastic bubbles that went over the lights to protect them. They were shaped kind of like a shallow bowl with a lip that went under the headlight retaining ring. They were flexible and stood proud of the light lens.

Yes Paul, the Hella’s are the same as the Wipac units (although I have not measured the depth) and the lens quality is very good. The shallow reflector caused by the slope of the bowls means you can’t get the volume of light onto the road. With latest generation H4 bulbs and a couple of relay’s you can achieve very good lighting with them though (mine are Wipac).

I have never checked to see if the S2 bowls can be fitted to the S1 whilst maintaining tyre clearance. If they do fit then the Cibie reflectors would be a welcome addition.

John - I have a pair of NOS Lucas PL700 headlamps fitted with the original spec Lucas 410 bulbs and the light output is pretty dismal. The H4 bulbs will not fit the original PL700 lenses:

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David

Does anyone have a part number for the Hellas? Their web page is not too friendly to old car surfers. If I had an off road truck I’sd be all set :slight_smile:

I stand corrected. It’s been 45 years since I bought them and I’d have sworn the bulbs I bought were halogen bulbs, but your picture of the round globe bulbs do remind me of the one’s I bought, so I guess they weren’t H-4s. the Lucas lights were brighter and threw light further down the road than the standard tungsten headlights I replaced. standard sealed beams of the era were pretty pathetic.

Probably these:

https://www.amazon.com/HELLA-002395801-Halogen-Conversion-Headlamp/dp/B001G72SKQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1532963595&sr=8-1&keywords=hella+headlights+7+inch

XK’s list them as Hella 70477 but you need to check they are no deeper than 3" from lens edge to tips of bulb spade connector. That vendor lists those Hella’s as suitable for S1/2/3 which certainly is not correct unless they are putting S1 lenses into the later cars. The ones John pointed at are about 4" deep so would not fit. Suggest you try SNGB using the Jaguar part number C23643 for US cars.

David

would those fit a series 1-1/2?

Not sure John. If the S1.5 has the S2 bowls then they would fit but if the S1.5 uses the S1 bowls then no. Any car fitted with the bigger S2 bowls should consider the Cibie 7" H4 headlights:

But they only ship from the UK as far as I can see even though they are LHD. You seem to be limited to sealed beam units in the US at least for the S1 cars.

Crap I bought a set of Cibie Z-beam H4s and have been waiting for the heat to break before swapping them for the installed PL700s. So they aren’t going to fit a flat back S1 can? I figured the rubber cap on the back might interfere but didn’t think the housing would be an issue. I guess I’ll need to buy a Porsche to put them on :frowning: