Thanks Ralph. We now have a part number, genuine Lucas and we know it fits the S1 bowls.
David:
Based on your knowledge, have you put together a list of what headlights will fit what series? That would be a great addition to any future “Technical How To Library” section.
Pretty much any 7" H4 headlamp will fit the S2/3 cars: Wipac Quadoptic, Cibie, Crystal, Lucas and Hella being the best known and of the highest optical quality. Avoid reproduction, budget or no name brands.
The S1 cars require a headlamp unit no deeper than 3" from rim to end of H4 bulb connectors and the Lucas LUB314 (LHD) or Lucas LUB328 (RHD) Non Pilot is a quality lens that we know fits. It can of course also be used in the S2/3 cars however you would have better lights with the deeper bowl units, Cibie probably being the best. It is all about the volume of light you are throwing so the S2/3 cars win with their deeper reflectors.
It is also worth researching what H4 bulbs are available in your area as there are some latest generation road legal bulbs from Osram, Ring and Philips that have phenomenal lighting characteristics.
LED bulbs are a poor choice as the 7" reflectors/optics are designed for the H4 bulb so they could dazzle oncoming motorists or not provide full coverage on dip/main. Equally the reproduction Lucas PL700’s are really only for show not for serious night driving. The unique reflector system was designed for the short round 410 bulb not for the long H4 with integrated reflector.
One point worth considering is buying Lucas headlamps with a pilot light as you can fit LED bulbs there for use as daylight running lights. The effect is very good as you have a full reflector of light which makes the car very noticeable on the road. Lucas LUB383 Pilot (RHD and Lucas LUB384 Pilot (LHD) are the part numbers
David
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Great summation. Where does Series 1-1/2 fit in?
The S1.5 cars used the S1 bonnet but with open headlights, they retained the sloping bowls. The S2 cars had the open headlights but they were moved forward (hiding the gap with a wider chrome ‘eyebrow’) so could use the industry standard 7" deep bowls for better lighting.
So S1.5 - Lucas LUB314 (LHD) or Lucas LUB328 (RHD) Non Pilot
David
Thanks David. …
I had a headlight go out on an Oil Leak. Picked up one of these at OReily’s and it fit fine:
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/sylvania-5022/lighting---electrical-16777/headlight-bulb-11519/f5abcf842030/sylvania-clear-h6024-sealed-beam-headlight/h6024/4743118
–Drew
Thanks Drew, but the original poster was looking for non-sealed beam units with the H4 bulb which tend to be deeper.
David
the web site says it doesn’t fit my S1
Bill,
It says that for my car too, but it fit fine. And as David says above, it is a sealed beam unit.
–Drew
The photos below are of some H4 Hellas I’ve got in both my series 1.5 (big buckets) and Ser 1 coupe (slanted buckets). They are wonderful even in the closed headlight car. They are 3.5" high from the inside edge of the reflector to the tips of the bulbs. The only fit issue appears to be the chrome ring - it’s too short as shown - but I just used longer screws. So far so good.
You’ll note that the locator tang is quite a bit longer than the headlight shown in Heuer’s photo, which may explain why it fits and why the chrome ring doesn’t.
Has anybody tried fitting the big buckets to a Ser 1 car? There seems to be a fair amount of clearance to the wheel.
Had big buckets on my 4.2 when I bought it many years ago. When disassembling it last fall I noticed that the paint had been rubbed off by the tires on both sides. 195 75 15. My 3.8 also has the big buckets but there are no rub marks. 185 75 15. Probably a combination of tire size and individual variation.
Yes Geoff says above that the larger buckets rubbed on his car. I has a look at mine and I suspect it would. The farthest back edge of the slanted bucket is only slightly in front of the leading edge of my 205/70 tire. There is plenty of space at rest, but as the suspension compresses, it gets closer. So whether it rubs depends a lot on ride height and how hard you drive.
I think I see why your Hellas fit despite being comparatively deep dished. Instead of plain locating pegs, the locating peg is built up on a (rather tall) standoff. Both my PL700 and Cibie lamps have only locating pegs so the lamp sits flush against the S1 adjuster dish (not sure of the proper name but it’s the aluminum dish that floats on the adjuster screws.
I’m thinking out loud but I’ll bet that spacer shims could be fashioned that would screw onto the face of the bucket using the bucket mounting screws (longer ones of course). Then holes could be drilled and tapped into the shims to accept the stock adjuster screws.
My current PLs seem to be recessed about an inch behind the bonnet chrome trim ring. So the lamp could be shimmed forward and still not look goofy. The only questions are whether it can be moved forward far enough to accommodate most lamps, and whether the act of moving them forward would degrade the headlight function?
I just looked at tire diameters - a stock 185 tire is 25.93, Geoff’s 195 is 26.52, and Erica’s 205/70 is 26.3. It probably doesn’t take much to hit or miss.
As to shimming the light out - the Hella sits further out because of the longer “tangs” (or whatever they are called) and looks fine. I doubt if anybody would notice it. It looks like it could come at least another 1/4" without issue. As to the spacer. The captive nuts on the back of the bucket are rather peculiar. They are mounted with tangs and can move to accommodate the adjuster screws not being 90 degrees to the bucket, so I suspect drilling and tapping the spacer wouldn’t work - you would loose that flex.
I’ve never noticed these tangs of which you speak. I had my buckets powder coated so I wonder if I might already have ‘fused’ them. I’ve never noticed any binding on the adjuster screws. The slot on the screws that captures the aluminum dish seems wide enough to allow the dish to pitch this way or that. I’d have to take a closer look at my buckets.
If it was required it could still be accomplished with a bit more planning. The holes could even be made large then source longer adjuster screws that pass through the shims and go into the bucket as original. This gives me some hope for my Cibies!
These are what the nuts look like. I thought I had some loose, but I can’t find them. They don’t move much.
Ah yes I recall now. I think I just attributed it to sloppy threads. I’ll pay heed to it if I get around to trying this. I did an image google of headlamp adjustment screws and most of them, including some Lucas kits just use nylon inserts for the screws to thread into, like this one. I think it just needs to not be too bindy. Maybe using a bit one size over before tapping would make them just sloppy enough.
First I need to pull the covers and see exactly how much shimming is required if I omit the big plastic plug and just use insulated spade connectors. If it’s too dramatic it’ll be goofy.
Thanks for the hints!
Late to the discussion here, so forgive me if this is redundant. I ordered lights and relays from Daniel Stern a year or so ago for my S1. I received Cibies #082440 and they fit fine. Love the lights - sharp, clear cut off and noticeably brighter, although that may be a result of running power through the relays. I was pleasantly surprised that the glass covers do not scatter the light very much at all.
Huh, those are the ones I have. So they fit with the plastic multi connector hanging off the back? Do you have the standard S1 buckets with the flat backs, or are they the S2 with the round back?
Same ones I used: a big improvement over standard sealed beams, fit fine in the S1flat buckets.