Heating seized engine via water pump - possible?

It might be free advice but it doesn’t mean to say it’s correct or suitable for me. Anyone can say ‘do it right’. They could also say ‘hand it over to a Jaguar specialist or you will be forever unhappy’.

I need to work with my budget and available workspace. There’s no point stripping the engine down if I can get it to free off. Why disturb components that don’t need to be disturbed?

It’s not urgent at all. I’ve been sitting on the problem for 4 years now trying to decide best course of action

Based on decades of experience: if the rings are stuck badly enough to keep it from rotating, the damage to the cylinders is very likely to be bad enough to cause, at the very least, a rough-running engine, with likely smoking issues.

If you get it unstuck AND you run it, you are likely to irreparably damage a/some liners and pistons, which will cost you MORE money than just simply “doing it right.”

The vast majority of the advice you have gotten is sound, and is offered by a group with massive knowledge of these beasts. Do as you will, but it appears you want the easy way out (understandable), but know that that easy way out is VERY unlikely to result in a properly-running engine.

1 Like

The 6 I’m familiar with: if someone wanted a top notch rebuild, assuming an average old XK, it could EASILY top $6000.

I think you need to calm down Wiggles. You strike me as one of these guys who thinks he owns the forum. How many V12s have you rebuilt?

Also no need for capitals when you’re dishing out ‘helpful’ advice.

The easy way? Perhaps the most practical way…

Also - it might not be the rings that are stuck.

Also - you can transfer pistons and liners from another engine if that is the case.

Why tear down the engine to establish that? If the engine does run rough due to damaged rings then tear it down.

Also no need to quote doing it right as it was you who originally used that phrase.

I quoted you. You don’t need to quote your own comments

$6K

How much of that is labour and how much for parts?

It would take me ~30 hours to diassemble/shag parts/get stuff to/from machine shops/paint/breadboard the componentry: at $80/hour, that’d be $~2400.

The rest would be the machine work, external rebuilding (head) and parts. This is for a 6-banger.

maybe check the cylinders with a borescope? if it is minimal surface rust, loosen the rust BEFORE forcing the rings past it. just remember that rust could exist below the pistons too. with nothing to lose, I would fill it with something (tranny fluid, diesel, etc) and see what happens with some time. you could even fill it with used tranny fluid, get 5 gallons from a shop and fill the oil until it leaks out the top. bad idea? so what, its junk anyway. $6k might be practical to some where a $500.00 used motor is better for others. I have installed hundreds of used motors, 10-20 rebuilt/crate and only rebuilt a few myself. depends on the purpose/practicality, and sometimes the thickness of my wallet.

1 Like

I was thinking of a big prybar on the flywheel, jacking against the bell housing, but believe it or not there are tools made for this.

Jegs 60129

Lisle 23800
image

One or the other of these might work for a $25 investment to your tool inventory.

But you have the right idea with the breaker bar and socket on the pulley bolt. I would use a shorter socket if you have one, and keep trying it back and forth. Kroil (or trans fluid and acetone mixed 50/50) down the spark plug holes might work. You can also put a long pipe over the handle. 150 foot pounds torque is the same as 75 pounds on a 2 foot bar, or 50 pounds on a 3 foot bar, or 30 pounds at the end of a 5 foot pipe.

1 Like

While we are suggesting additions to the tool collection—always a good idea!!—this is one handy sucker.

1 Like

In your opinion is it stuck on the crank on rings? stick something on the front of the engine so it touches the pulley and put a paint line so you can see if it moves, if the crank can move a couple of thou its the rings, if it solid its the crank, you’ll need to force diesel into the oilways. If its only the rings then what’s down the bores will be getting to where it needs to be, I’ve worked with various stuck engines, tractors, stationary engines, cars, never had muck look with a bar on the front pulley, you will need to take the starter off and attack the starter ring. WHEN it moves, its best to whip off the rocker cover and make sure the valves are coming up ok.

1 Like

You read my mind jrinam.

I’m planning to flood the bores with ATF, Coke, whatever. Then heat the water jacket. Then put the bar on the main pulley nut.

I might remove the valve-covers first just in case it’s the valve-train that’s seized.

You can get 2nd hand units in UK for a few hundred £s (not stuck). I can always turn to that if mine is junk.

I quite fancy stripping down the 2nd hand (HE) unit I have just to see what’s involved.

There is a lot of talk about prices to rebuild an engine but my question is how much would it cost to disassemble and rebuild a good engine?

Cost of gaskets perhaps…

My engine shouldn’t be worn as it’s very low miles so let’s say I do get it apart and the only things un-useable are rings/liners.

It’s unlikely they’d all be ruined.

Lots of things to think about but bottom line is it’s all speculation until something is done

Thanks Dirt.

That’s new/useful input. I’ve never considered the crank. Assumed it had to be the rings.

So basically if the crank moves a fraction it’s the rings that are stuck?

Yeah, they just get stuck with standing, if you take the starter off and pry bar between a tooth and the bottom of the starter hole it’ll move, you could try rocking the crank a bit first with your big bar.

1 Like

Boiling oils new to me, I’ll try that next time.

I have heated ‘stuck’ components cherry red and dropped in oil or squirted oil on it. not so sure you could do that with an entire engine. I honestly believe what little water/condensation was in there settled at the rings and started to rust and just needs loosened, then broke free.

1 Like

From davidm above
An old mechanic told me to pour boiling engine oil in through the spark plug holes, put the plugs back, and leave it for a few days. The hot oil forced its way past the rings to some extent, as the metals expanded.

1 Like

If you strip it and only replace the very basics including:a set of rings, gaskets and seals,chain dampers, chain. In the UK around £1,000.00

If the crank was seized it would be most likely a bearing issue which means a strip anyway. Even if it was a corrosion issue stopping the crank from turning ( which is very unlikely) then logic says that the corrosion of the bores would be seriously bad! I hope I’m wrong, but still feel you should strip it. Even if you get the enginevto turn, the rusted parts in the bores will continually accelerate wear of both the liners and the piston rings and piston skirts.

**
I still fail completely to understand why you haven’t tried turning the engine with the starter, Foxy…!

Either the engine will turn, or it won’t - in which case you are no worse off than before. To remove pistons requires turning the engine to access the big ends in turn. With the crankshaft bolt broken; turning options are limited - but it’s easier if the engine can be turned…

Prying at the ring gear require leverage in a difficult to access location - while the starter is designed to do the prying…:slight_smile:

Unorthodox methods abound in DIY - but in each case; one must know the limited goal of each such operation.

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**