Help Identify this 3.8L Motor - Will it work in a '63 XKE?

XK-Engine
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I am hoping that someone might be able to help me figure out the engine in the pictures and guide me on if it will work for my application.

A little backdrop, my dad bought a '63 XKE in 1973, drove it till 1979 and then the engine seized on it. He took it to a machine shop along with the head and then proceeded to have the owner die, the shop close and my dad never get back the original motor. (yes I do plan to put the serial of the car out there to see if by chance anyone has the original but near term going to source a different one)

So long story short I have a XKE that needs a ton of work but I love building cars and will be redoing this XKE that I used to sit in and pretend to drive when I was 4-7 years old. It will take me a while to do but I stumbled on a potential motor for it if I could get some guidance from you knowledgeable folks.

This engine is an XK that I am guessing was in a sedan based on the two carbs (I have the original to my car XKE carbs so no biggie). Looking at the color of the head, it looks like perhaps this was 3.4 head from the color and I initially questioned the seller on the motor because of that being odd on a 3.8. He has since sent me the attached pictures with the 3.8 liter stamp on the engine.

So a few questions… based on what you are seeing in the photos, am I correct that this is the same basic motor as would have been in a series 1 XKE? What stampings should I be having him send me pictures of and where would they be located on the engine? What additional information could I gather to determine what this might have come from and confirm that it will work in my future application? What should a complete 3.8 cost in unknown running condition (seller notes that it is not seized and it will be completely disassembled and painstakingly rebuilt so I really just want good bones)?

The motor is unfortunately all the way across the country so I can’t just swing over and look myself. The price is right enough that I think it is still a good start on getting a power plant available even with having to ship it.

Unfortunately I can only post one picture. But the other pictures I would post would show the Jaguar and 3.8 Litre stamping, some stamping that looks to say C 2 250 FF with a TL underneath it and then a picture of the head which is painted a blue green color.

Any guidance you can give, questions to ask, etc would be greatly appreciated.

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Sorry for the multiple replies, just wanted to be able to post the additional pictures for reference. Thanks again for any help you can provide.

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You are certainly on the right track.
The picture with the JAGUAR logo, at the very bottom edge there is a serial number, which would tell us exactly where this engine started life.
It appears to be a Z followed by a B. If this is so, it would be from a 3.8 liter Mark X saloon.
But if it is a 7 followed by a B it would be from a 3.8 liter S-Type saloon.
http://www.jag-lovers.org/xk-lovers/library/engine_numbers.htm
You might ask the seller to wire brush that number and take another picture.
The part numbers on the side of the distributor would also tell us the source car.
In the Mark X parts catalogue, the part number of the cylinder block is given as C22290. Your picture shows a block part number C2?250 where obviously one digit failed to form in the mold.
The oil filter is pointed the wrong direction for an E-Type so it may need to be changed. The E-Type forum would be the place to ask about that.
So the short answer is it looks close enough for a start.

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I’m not an expert on 6 cylinder E-Types so you should check on the E-Types
list, but I believe you will NEED to use the original triple carb setup
because the manifolds are angled down to clear the bonnet. I am also of the
impression that the original head for your car was a straight-port head and
not the same as what was used on earlier sedan engines. Your manifold might
not fit on that head. If you could get the number that is stamped on the
head on the wall in front of the front spark plug it would help to determine
if the engine is suitable for your needs.

Mike Eck
New Jersey, USA
www.jaguarclock.com
'51 XK120 OTS, '62 3.8 MK2 MOD, '72 SIII E-Type 2+2

This engine is an XK that I am guessing was in a sedan based on the two
carbs (I have the original to my car XKE carbs so no biggie).

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Thank you Mike. That is good insight. I am assuming a lot of that frankly. :slight_smile: This will be a very long process and totally prepared for that. The beauty of things like this… someone always needs the other parts for their project. Anything that doesn’t work for my needs can be rehomed over time. Goals near term are to source a bunch of building blocks, whatever doesn’t get used won’t go to waste because someone else will need it.

This thing needs a tremendous amount of work. I will post some pictures later of exactly how bad the body is so don’t worry, I have no delusions. I don’t assume that this is a bolt it up and go scenario and I love the learning process. Well at least till I fail miserably hahaha.

Keep the thoughts coming!!!

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As it sits, but trust me it is worse than the pic would indicate. Tons of rot all along the bottom in front of the drivers rear tire, front of the floor pans gone gone, some door bubbles. Going to be a karmically good act though to at get the rot stopped, and then I can focus on doing it the justice it deserves.

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The oil filter on that engine is the type used on the 3.8 liter Mark 2 and XK150, pointing up and forward.

On the 3.8 Mark X it pointed straight down, and on the 3.8 S-Type it pointed down and to the rear.

There will be other questions as to fitting in an E-type, such as water pump, exhaust manifolds, front engine mounts and oil pan.
This is the place to ask them, but we would need more pictures and serial numbers.
BTW you can stack up a number of pictures in one posting. Just type a space after each one.

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Just to confirm though… the block and its castings (not casting numbers, but meaning the various bosses and bolt holes on the block) are all the same as an e-type correct? I am not worried about sourcing the other aspects. I basically just want a usable block and crank. If I end up with other usable parts awesome, if not they will go on ebay for someone that needs them. Definitely prepared that I will be sourcing other items, I just want to make sure I have the basic usable bones.

I have my stock etype oil pan and exhaust manifolds. Totally understand on motor mounts and such, just want to make sure that the block will have all of the correct bosses.

I will likely also source at some point a true e-type block for it since it is a series 1 car. Main reason for going after this one is that it is cheap and something I can build as a motor that I can put some miles on and not feel bad about it.

Blocks were all the same other than the casting numbers correct?

Oh, and you are correct on the pictures. But since I was a new user I was limited to one pic until I had some postings under my belt. Thanks!!!

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Not from an S-type or XK150, I have both as a 3.8.
Also it seems to have a B-head, so the triple carb setup will not fit.
That will fit on a Straight Port head.
Also the Oil pan looks to have a wider rear, that will not fit a E-type.

regards,
Peter Jan

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To answer your question directly, yes the block and crank will work in an E-Type.
The flywheel, clutch, distributor and timing chain and cover will work.

A straight port head from a Mark X will work with your original intake and 3 carbs.

For that matter you could use the B head and 2 carb inlet if you just want to get the car going.

When you pull off the oil filter head you will want to check that the passages are clear. In some cases Jaguar blocked one off when they used a certain bypass filter head.

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Perfect, that is exactly what I needed to confirm. That is great insight on the passages too, I will check when I get the motor and start getting it apart. The '63 in the photo is very much a “20 footer” :slight_smile: With that picture you cannot see how bad the rot really is but it is substantial. Don’t worry, this won’t be something that I just drop the motor into and try it out. The entire car is going to be taken down to pieces and painstakingly catalogued bolt by bolt. The body once all the glass and parts are removed will be put on a rotisserie for initial survey of damage. I may at that point do some of the initial structural repair once I can assess how bad things really are. Once I have done that, it will go for an acid bath and an initial spray with sealer. Then come back, go on the rotisserie again and have the real metal work get started.

I won’t be building a concourse car. I will be building a driver. This car has been in family for my entire life. I have ridden in it, but I was a baby and don’t remember riding in it. Apparently I had a “play area” set up behind the seats where I hung out as a really little baby (ah the seventies). After that I spent my formative childhood pretending to drive this thing as it sat dead in the driveway. I would sit in it and play race car driver, play fighter pilot, etc etc etc. When it comes to making this thing drive, there will be no short cuts taken. I will however drive the snot out of this car when done.

I have spent the last 15 odd years teaching myself fabrication in my spare time. While I don’t do it for a living, I have a well set up shop. Mig, tig, lathe, full size variable speed mill, tubing bender, plasma, every air tool I ever thought about needing, English wheel, etc etc etc. I do also know where I may have skillset limitations and where I might pull in some others to help. Thankfully those instances will be limited because frankly I am bull headed mixed with anal retentive. :slight_smile: I will take the time to have it done correctly and to look perfect.

While the body is being worked on… the motor will be being built. Once more, purpose built to drive the living snot out of this thing. I don’t like trailer queens but in the same token, am not disrespectful to the heritage that these ooze. This motor will be taken down completely. Magnafluxed, cleaned, and built to the highest level of performance that can be achieved with reliability. The parts that aren’t needed (I actually have another 3.4 head, and dual carb setup as well sitting around with the rest of the parts for the car) will get rehomed to fund the correct items. I have the original valve covers, timing setup, oil pan, clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, bell housing, intake, carbs etc etc etc for my car. The only things I was missing where the head, block, and internals and a couple trim pieces. I think the block I just bought will be a good base to start with… hopefully the rest of the internals are as well. If not… oh well. There is enough there that I will get my money back out of it and go source another.

Thank you all for the great insights… I am sure I will be asking a boat load of questions as this journey unfolds…

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Just wanted to say thank you to everyone for their great advice. The motor is now somewhere in middle America on its journey to Washington state. I am supposed to get it in a week or so according to the shipping company. I then will leave on the 17th to head to Illinois where I will pick up the actual car and my car trailer I bought to move it west. :slight_smile:

Going to be a long journey getting this back on the road, but looking forward to diving in once I finish up a couple other builds going on over the summer. Thanks again!!

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Was finally able to get everything home, both car and motor. Just finished a 4000+ mile trip for the car. The motor and head are both serial #7B54293-9. Motor date of 11-8-64.

Curious question… in between the freeze plugs there are what appears to be grinder marks under the paint. At first I thought it was a crack repair (in the section toward the water pump in between the first and second plugs on exhaust side of the motor) or something but then I noticed that there are similar marks, although not as deep in between the plugs 2 and 3 on the same side. Would they have potentially knocked off some casting imperfection on the block with what appears to be an angle grinder disc?

From the detail in the engine numbers list… looks like this was out of an S-type. It is interesting that the head color is a green blue and not a metallic blue, were there some 3.8 heads that were the light green color? I am going to have to start looking around for a straight port head…

Thanks again for all the help!!!

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Yes, taking down casting imperfections with a grinder is certainly a common practice in the foundry industry. Pouring sprues, vent sprues, mold parting lines and core support lugs leave excess metal that is removed early in the finishing process, by torch, chipping hammer or grinder.
My first job after college was in a steel foundry, doing time studies for setting piecework rates, and counting the daily scrap castings and recording the defects. The mold men had awls and would often poke vent holes in the sand at sharp corners if the sand was too wet. These holes would fill up with steel and the casting would look like it had whiskers when it was shaken out.

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Hi Matt
One part you haven’t mentioned that you will need is the E type oil pick up pipe fitted into the oil pump inlet port. You will also need the mounting strut/ tab plate that the oil pipe attaches to that’s fitted across the centre main bearing cap.these sort of bits are still available in the U.K. . ex fighting vehicle engine sump pipes are identical to the E type.

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Many thanks again for the insights. I need to get through all of the parts I have from the original motor and see what all I need to source as I would like to figure that all out and have the pieces sitting in a box while the real rebuild is taking place. Main known pieces missing are three trim pieces (one that I sadly lost on the drive out from Illinois to Washington, sigh), the shifter knob, and keys. That said I am quite certain that I will come across innumerable small parts as I move through this process that got lost over the nearly 40 years this thing has sat.

Can you post a picture of the pick up tube you are noting? Be good to have a visual as I look through box after box of stuff I have sitting…

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Hi Matt
I’m hoping to have one by Monday when I’ve cleaned it up, I’ll gladly send you some pics.
Best regards
Nigel Boycott

Sent frommy iPhone

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Hi Matt
Could you let me have your e mail address? I have taken a photo for you this morning but can’t work out how to send it to you! If I have your in e mail I then have the technology to send the picture!