IRS factory color

E-Type
21

Just to add to the confusion, the diff in my '68 was definitely painted black originally, as it is now.

22

My '64 was faded Glyptal…no black.

23

Reading the lastest entrees here I would suspect that the factory paint would not stick to the glyptal, the factory noticed that it was not sticking and just stopped painting them. Just a guess, but being a veteran, we used the SWAG system quite often. SWAG= Scientific Wild Ass Guess.

24

I want to thank everyone for your responses although I am still a bit confused.
I think mine shows being the red color.

I will check further before finishing it.

Thanks again and have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Steve Wissink

25

Remember this advice from Bill Blass:

26

Which color do you prefer?

Paint it that color!

:yum:

27

I just talked to Mike Mueller and among other things we talked about I brought this subject up and he said that he has never seen a believed to be original pig that was not painted the reddish brown(Glyptal) color with no evidence that it was over painted with black paint.
Bob
889076
Plymouth, Mi.

1 Like
28

Thanks Bob. In looking at my IRS it does appear to be the color you said, Thanks for the reply

29

Or you could paint it purple! It matters not in the end because with the back plate painted black as it should be and the IRS installed, you are doing good if you can see the diff at all. Maybe a few inches of the front where it meets the driveshaft. Looks like 99.999999% of the general public won’t know the difference, if we can’t come to an agreement here on a forum of E Type owners.

1 Like
30

Thanks Doug.
It appears that the vote is the way you have it.
That is the way I will finish mine.
Yours looks amazing.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving

Steve Wissink

31

Hi,

I have not changed words with Mike for a long time, but I have to say thay does not mean much.

Evidence? Did you look at my photos? The diff on 1S20183 has never been out of the car and it looks just like that.

Wiggles confirmed Tweety was that way too, so was my ex 1966 2+2 and 100% of the twelve diffs Pete had worked on.

This has been discussed so mamy times it feels stupid: of course you will find red Glyptal on all diffs. If you take a look at my photos you can see how poorly the black paint had been applied. But it is definately factory work. Anyone who believes that no differential was ever painted black on any E-type at the Browns Lane plant is very clearly wrong, and possibly also believes that nobody ever walked on the moon and that the earth is flat! And anybody who just takes his word for it is a fool. But no, they did not stop painting the diffs black, that XJ6C diff is from 1975 and even much later Salisbury diffs were painted black at the Browns Lane plant.

Yes, if you use tough solvents and/or wire brushes the black will come off, but the red won’t. But it does not prove the diff had not been painted black when the car was made.

Yes, there may have been cars that did not have any black paint on the red Glyptal on the diff, but I have never seen one on an unrestored car, only on restored ones. And most of them seem to be in the US. Looking at parts at E-type wreckers, like R M & J Smith and the spares and cars at Stoneleigh for two decades now, and I have not seen one unrestored one, that did not have black paint on the diff.

While I will go and dig up some factory assembly line footage and photos please take another look at the photos I posted of the untouched diff. It is as it was made in 1975 give or take a few scratches. I only washed it with mild dishwasher soap and a brush amd left it, as well as all the hubs and wishbones with their factory paint. Mike is very welcome to drop over and have a look if he likes and so are pretty much all of you.
Even if it looks like some of you are calling me a liar, huh? Maybe it would be a good idea to check the facts first, this is not a matter of opinion.

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 1S20183 with an original, unrestored rear axle and differential painted black
Fin.

1 Like
32

To add to the confusion, I am the original owner of my series II (1970) Diff is painted black. It has been power washed many times over the years and never repainted.
There are no signs of it ever being painted red and I always questioned the red theory as maybe being related to earlier cars?
Glenn

33

You have been a tremendous help and I am very appreciative.
You went well above what I had expected.
Bringing a XKE back to life after over 35 years since I had it has been a challenge.
My car had been in a pretty severe wreck it appears and I do not know why it was not repaired right.
I would have had insurance for the repair and done it correctly
How on earth did you get assembly line footage. That is amazing.
I have been attempting to get it back as it left the factory.
I will even be redoing the spoke wheels with new chrome spokes.

Thank again very much and have a very Happy Thanksgiving

Steve Wissink

34

my 66 was found with a trace of red remaining at the pinion end. The rest of it was grease and rust.

35

As far as I can see from reading this thread, no-one is calling anyone else a liar. Everyone is recounting their own personal experience, or recounting other peoples’ experience that has been passed on to them. The problem, from my perspective, is that some folks are extrapolating their own experience to assert that what they’ve seen is the only way things were ever done. Is it not possible that some diffs were painted black over the glyptal, and some weren’t? There could be a whole realm of different reasons why this could be the case. As I recall this same issue was a recurring debate over on the XK list at one time, and got a little out of hand. Let’s please not go down that road. As has been proved so many times with these cars, it’s foolhardy to ever say never…

-David

36

Pekka, take it easy, dude. No one is calling you a liar, we are just trying to rationalize how some of these diffs appeared to be red glyptal and some appeared to be black. If you go back and carefully read the Mike Mueller statement, you will see that he is stating he had never seen one that had never been painted black. He is agreeing with you. There again, what if the diff painter was out sick one day and instead of stopping production, they installed a few non black diffs? What if they ran out of paint? My understanding of the times where that production stoppage costs money so they did what they had to do to ship cars out. What if the paint would not adhere to the glyptal and the heat of the diff or inboard brakes cooked it off? Factory line production photos or video will not cover 12 or 13 years of everyday production runs. Is there anyone still alive that was there when they were being made? Even so, they were probably not involved with every single build. Doug’s car was unrestored as was mine, both with no traces of black paint. What else should we think when we know we are the first to remove the diff and no traces of black paint? When I found my front wishbones had not been cad plated I was dumbfounded. Then after discussion and fact finding, It was confirmed that some cars went out with black painted front wishbones, series one and two cars. So we may never really know. Is Thomas Haddock still alive? Maybe he would know. Is there any mention of the diffs in his restoration books?

37

That was factory installed…:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

38

Geez, now you’re making me feel old - I was building cars in 1967 (Chryslers, not Jaguars). Maybe a Mopar site wants me as a survivor expert.

Back on topic, probably a good thing that the judging guide doesn’t look at the diff.

1 Like
39

Finnish, yes: liar?

Never!!!

:joy::joy::joy:

40

Hi Glenn,

That’s not confusion. That’s perfectly normal. However I bet if you open it some day, you will find that the inside is red, as the whole unit has been painted inside out with red Glyptal. I do not know it for sure, but I would bet that they did this either already at the foundry or at the latest at the Salisbury Transmission Company (in the UK, not to be confused with the Spicer and Salisbury companies in the USA, although they are related as the UK company formed by Ed J. Hardy Ltd. after Mr. Hardy had already passed away in the 1950’s, had indeed licensed the “Salisbury” type of hypoid rear axle for manufacturing in the UK.

Hardy and Spicer later merged and acquired lots of related companies later, incl. Laycock.

Maybe the only confusion with your original diff, is that the apprentice who painted in black did a really top job and no red is visible. The diff on my XJ6C shows the brush strokes and the runs really well IMO and you can see the red through in lots of places.

So I am pretty sure those diffs that were painted black, were painted black at the Browns Lane plant, unless the rear axle was assembles somewhere else, at least later in the 1970’s engines and gearboxes were put together in another factory (in Radford, ex. Daimler factory) and transported to Browns Lane for final assembly.

FWIW also 1E16061 is still with original owner who was given the keys of his car in October 1967 at the Browns Lane plant and also that unrestored differential is indeed painted black.

When it comes to Mr. Mike Muller, he is undoubtedly a real expert and knows the early E-types extremely well. However I don’t think he cares too much about how the rear axles were treated in 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973 or 1974. I can of course try to ask him if you like.

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 1S20183
Fin.