Is this a normal cooling problem?

Expensive story, and I’m wondering if this makes sense to everyone:

  1. Our 2006 X-type 3.0 spontaneously started to run the cooling fans continuously—even when the car was turned off. Since the fans normally run for 30 seconds or so after shut-off, no one noticed until the next morning when the battery was dead. Got the car to the local mechanic (not familiar with Jags) and he diagnosed the problem to be the fan module.
  2. He replaced the part with an aftermarket version; it worked for about two weeks until the car had serious overheating. The car was towed to another local shop on an emergency basis.
  3. Shop #2 said it was the fan module (again) and replaced it with an OEM part. (We also later found out that they replaced a whole bunch of other parts; hoses, sensors, virtually everything but the fan motor itself).
  4. This worked great for about a week when it suddenly had more serious overheating. We had the car towed to our trusted mechanic (shop #3; his mother owns an X-type). He claims:
    “The engine cooling system needs to be bled; if not, there is an air pocket, it will overheat and dump a bunch of coolant through a pressure valve. All of the parts are otherwise in good working order” (he’s the one who told us that the previous shop appeared to throw new parts at the problem; hoping to solve it).

My questions are:
• does this sound correct? My auto expertise is strictly with vintage cars; anything built in this century is a mystery to me.
• what constitutes 'bleeding the cooling system?" Is this an actual procedure or is it simply topping off the header tank?
• could it be that the aftermarket module was fine, and the system was too low on coolant? What would the diagnostic codes show (if anything)?
• and on a relate note, what is the proper coolant for the 3.0?

Did bleeding it cure the problem?

It means getting air out. It’s plausible. Many cars ie BMWs need to be bled; the XJS also has an issue with getting the air out.

Not sure if the problem is fixed. I haven’t gotten it back from shop #3 yet. I do trust these guys, so I am assuming that they know what they are talking about. I’ve just never heard of bleeding a cooling system and what ill effects it may have.

Just like bleeding brakes it can only help.

If the high point on the cooling system is above the points where the air con is topped up then an air pocket could develop.

Buy a manual. There should also be info in the owners handbook and service guide. My X-type is a 2.0L diesel estate but the principles are the same. Any professional should be able to identify the filling/bleed point(s), expansion vessel and atmospheric recovery tank. All these elements were common last century.

The type of coolant will be in the handbook documents and by now after probably two overheats/refills you may not be using original spec and should top up using the same as the last shop used and showed on their bill.

Did anyone check the actual thermostat? I hope you don’t get head gasket problems from the bad service you’ve received

Can’t say any of these replies have been useful in solving the problem. I have recently run into the same issue with my 2006 3.0 X type. I replaced the fan module, the temp sensor, complete thermostat and housing, and a system flush and refill with the proper coolant. Fans themselves run smoothly, strong and quietly. As to bleeding the system, it would be nice if someone would state the procedure. One would think that is what a forum is for - to assist others, not tell them to buy a manual ( I have. Poorly written, a waste of time.) The only things left would be to access the water pump and see if the impeller has worn (or disintegrated if plastic) and replace it with a better constructed pump like an AC/Delco all metal. Not sure of other choices other than Jaguar who are crazy with their pricing but still break as often as the less costly parts most of the time. Another great discussion, OEM vs Aftemarket, vs a mystery on e bayThe other possibility is the ECU which I dread.
In my particular case the fan comes on on start up after siting over night for a complete cool down. If the car is driven and then shut down for a bit it may or may not start up. Was surprised that it began to overheat on a relatively cool day while idling for about 10 minutes.
I have a suspicion that the AC is part of the problem, as it seems to cycle more than I would expect. I know it will be overheating as soon as the air A/C starts blowing warm air.
Thats my story and I’m sticking to it. Maybe someone with more insight that telling me to but the manual can help. If not, on to a service provider

Cheers All

You are correct, there is nothing in this thread that was helpful in fixing the problem. The actual problem is that the various aftermarket parts they were installing are well-known not to work properly.
The aftermarket top hose assembly works fine except the thermostat contained in it. Either use a factory upper hose with the thermostat or use the aftermarket hose and replace the thermostat with factory.
There seems to be no acceptable fan module sold separately. The after-market fan modules don’t work correctly and the aftermarket fan assemblies don’t work correctly, probably because they contain the fan modules that don’t work correctly.
The aftermarket temp sensors are also erratic and fail early but this is usually NOT the problem.
The only way you are getting a decent new fan module is to buy the factory fan assembly. I sold the last of them a month ago and they are NLA from Jaguar. I guess that leaves used or searching for someone that still has a new one in stock. Someone might be able to find the component inside and replace that just like the people that rebuild ECUs.
Do not buy a water pump with a metal impeller unless you understand what is compatible with the OAT coolants required in that car. X-Types bleed the coolant system in the normal process of filling the car with coolant. I can’t recall any Jaguars after the V-12s where that was a problem. All the cars after that have bleed hoses so even the complicated systems on supercharged cars bleed easily.

Greg

Thankyou for your thoughtful reply.

I agree about the aftermarket parts debacle which the only way of describing how consumers can make choices. Things like a thermostat and housing or a sensor are easy stuff. We are talking 19th century technology and should have that down by now. This is a FORD engine, yes reworked by Jag engineers but the cooling system not much I would think. The fan cooling module is Nintendo simple, made by the millions and resold at amazing prices in some cases.

We really can’t ascertain the quality of purchased part in many cases unless you have full access to specs and a complete engineering lab able to look at materials, electronics programming et al. and the people to do the work. My work in the German optical industry informed me that when they need an answer on a part, it’s sent to an independent lab for testing. I’m pretty sure the auto industry is the same.

I am currently replacing the ABS wheel sensors on my XJ8… In choosing the product they range in price from $18.00 to over $400 per unit. Really now this is not high tech stuff. I’ve had top of the line replacement parts fail early on after installation and cheap parts fail as well. My guide is who I purchase it from. No business wants to deal with continual parts returns so they will tend to carry the products that cause the least problems. If they give the same return warranty on the same part for $20 as one for $75 then they must have some confidence level in the cheaper one.

You point to Jaguar discontinuing parts. Is that because of the outrageous pricing on components or as what seems more likely slowly getting out of the business. ( another discussion ) Odd that I can get new parts for my long discontinued SAAB 900 much easier than Jaguar. The fact that easy access to factory information on a discontinued model like the X type is disappointing. Jaguar has done it’s customer base a disservice in support. If it does not want to carry a part, it should at least make a recommendation as to an alternative. It’s not unreasonable to support older cars, although Jaguar management may have hated the X Type

AS to Coolants, this is an area that rivals a political debate. Different colors, extended change times. OAT… Bottom line is it seems to be another attempt to complicate maintenance and scare off the shade tree mechanic. No matter what the recommendation of the manufacturer, I change the coolant, thermostat, and flush the system every 3 years or so. Itds have never had an engine fail because of coolant, and water pumps last 100K or more. On that topic, I will default to a metal impeller over plastic every time. Not being a Luddite, I think the use of plastics has been overdone. Metal rusts, plastics degrade and become brittle. It’s on ongoing battle keeping my toys alive.

In closing I have found that forums for enthusiasts whether for cars or baseball cards have become a waste of time. They should be for exchanging information but have become a venue for silly comments, mostly off point. This particular issue which should be an easy solve is a good demonstration of how useless it’s become.

So ends the rant

Martin

Case in point -

Questions have been answered. There is no „the X type cooling issue“. Do you expect someone far away to identify a random problem when you can’t even identify it standing in front of it? Right. Good form, adding a non helpful rant on and to what you feel is unhelpful help.

It took me 6 minutes on my phone and google to find the bleeding procedure in the X type manual, and it is simple, easy to follow and understand, and logical, better than many. So poorly written, a waste of time? Okay.

@Baybjag: Thanks for the kind and thoughtful words. Although I understand the inherent problem of diagnosing a problem online, it would have been more helpful if there was information regarding sourcing a reliable fan module (which ours has gone out once again—for the fifth time!), or having a specific area to look at.

My experience with cars is from the 1960s and 70s. I get the distinct impression that cars—and the manufacturers—are engineering the cars to only last for the warranty period; that long-term reliability is not a selling factor. Constructing a car with a plastic water impeller is insane unless you expect it to fail. ECUs that are poorly designed, expensive, not supported or even available is another way the manufacturers are telling us to junk what we have and buy a new car.

The problem in our car is either the fan module or the ECU—it’s impossible to tell which at this point. The solution would be to bypass those assemblies entirely and wire the fans to a manual switch within the cabin.
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@davidsxj6: Although I appreciate having any responses to my query, I do understand what the term ‘bleeding’ means. Vintage cars do not need their cooling systems ‘bled’ and it is not like a brake hydraulic system. Although both are hydraulics that are under pressure, one controls thermal energy and the other controls mechanical energy. My consulting the manual does nothing helpful since I am not doing the work, but am dealing with mechanics to do the work.

As it turns out, the bleeding procedure did not cure the problem. As stated above, best I can tell the problem is inherent in the either the fan module (a well documented weak spot) or the ECU.
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@PeterCrespin: If I were doing my own work, I would buy a manual, however I thought it was clear in my post that the work was done by shop mechanic(s) and not me. I was looking for accurate information to relay to them. I apologize if this was not obvious. Regarding the type of coolant, I fully recognize that after two overheats/refills that it might not be original spec, which is exactly why I asked what the proper coolant would be. I still don’t know from this post…
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In our case, we have given up on the car and are going back to being a one-car family (actually two-car, if you count the E-type, which I don’t). Our 2010 Mazda doesn’t have anywhere near the grief of the X-type and even the cost of the OEM parts aren’t at Jag-levels. I’m now concentrating on keeping my E-type on the road, armed with my shop manual, reliable mechanic, and trusted parts suppliers.

We all approach our cars from differing viewpoints, however I think we are all looking for accurate and specific information. When asking about a question about coolant type, it is just as easy to say: “an OAT formula like Motorcraft VC-13G” as it is to say: “check the manual”. But again, I appreciate the responses nonetheless.

There are at least 3 procedures I’ve come across regarding bleeding the coolant system, for the official Jaguar Service Manual ( section 303 - 03A of this 2000 + page tome. The New Testament and the 5 books of the Torah Old Testament do not begin to rival the complexity) quite the procedure, to recommendations of making sure the reservoir is filled to the proper level.
I will not let this car beat me and will get to the bottom of it, or it will be found at the bottom of a ravine off Mulholland Drive

Well bleeding is letting the air out. It is not that complicated, there are high spots where the air collects - many cars self bleed but others are more involved, sometimes for reasons. But the procedure I saw was not complicated. If there are other rivaling procedures, that sure does sound like the bible yet that is still a thing. Pick the one you like best… You‘ll find what’s wrong with it. Good luck.