Thanks for bringing things back around, Peter. Correct, no intent on my part to spawn a debate over the merits/drawbacks of JCNA. I was just trying to understand the structure and membership process of an organization that appears to be structured in a “bottom up” (not to be confused with “bottoms up”) manner, rather than “top down”, like most other marque clubs.
No probs Scott. It isn’t as simple as JEC, or big German clubs for example. But like Jag-Lovers itself, sometimes being first means that more modern setups appear later but you can’t easily wind the clock back for a redo. JCNA is the oldest “foreign” car club and is structured how it is because that’s how things started with the Jaguar Owners Association dating back to 1954. Hard to unwind 65 years and 60 plus clubs, especially with a volunteer staff. JEC have quite a few paid staff and paid-for HQ building etc. I believe the German clubs do too and the dues of property-owning central clubs with all their functions run centrally tend to be higher. JCNA dues, being normally a slice off a local club membership fee, are always low in comparision to a system where all the dues start out going direct from the member to the central organisation and they just congregate locally because of geographical convenience and the social side.
Still, J-L took the giant leap of changing software a few years ago and I think there may be software and systems changes eventually at JCNA. Meanwhile, their website would be the place to follow or query developments and the changes would ironically probably be least obvious to those who already have MAL membership, where after a first year extra setup charge the codt of annual renewals drops significantly.
NO! What I said was I had BEEN the Chief Judge at that club in the past! I had a very heart to heart talk with the Chief Judge who was in charge of the Judges at that time.
Currently most Concours are a contest of cleanliness since the bulk of the cars practically just came off the showroom floor.
I haven’t been involved with JCNA in 7 or 8 years since i became too busy and had to stop handling the website but I think the reason for the higher at large dues was to prevent it from competing with local clubs.
At large members are not eligible for regional awards which is another incentive to join the local clubs, at least for those interested in concours
Back then there were few members which only owned new cars, unless like many they also had an older one. Personally I never understood why newer cars were even judged as it is with cars under 10 years old it s pretty much just a detailing competition
I think that you’re right on the mark concerning newer cars entering Concours. As few newer cars “owners" actually own the cars or have any interest in the Jaguar marques history, I’m afraid that the clubs will be in trouble attracting new members in the near future.
Maybe so, but that kind of leaves people like me who want to belong and support JCNA but live over 200 miles from the nearest club with few options.
I too have dropped my “At Large” membership due to the high dues rate. The local club is more of a social dinner club for new car owners. Miss the Jaguar Journal but it is not worth the new dues price.
Jaguar and JCNA used to have a discount scheme that let people join JCNA in return for a few grand off new models. Needless to say, quite a few joined - often as MALs - and never renewed. The good news was they got more members. The bad news was those people actually cost JCNA money. Working with JLR for the common good was one thing, an amateur organisation subsidising a large corporation is something else.
Consequently, at the following AGM, open to everyone for input and agenda items, there was a discussion covering the issue. It was debated from more points of view than here and in a depth J-L threads can only dream of - as one would expect from a board of directors and 100-ish participants. They voted to change the scheme to members of at least six months standing and a first year only MAL fee that ensured we weren’t at a loss on non-renewers. For second and subsequent years it is a lot cheaper.
Jaguars are not the commonest cars, so the very act of buying or leasing a new or recent one means the owner is keen enough to swim against the tide. If some of those commitments extend to entering a club event of whatever sort, I’d regard those people as the most enthusiastic owners from amongst a group already motivated enough to buy Jags instead of the obvious and far higher-selling competitors. Under the circunstances, I’d be very reluctant to claim those entrants were highly likely to disappear from the scene. My iwn club has seen the opposite trend whereby new converts soon go deeper and stock up on a classic or two.
I’m out anyway.
I’ve been a member of a number of JCNA clubs over the last 40 plus years. I’m always amazed at some folks expectations for JCNA. JCNA attempts to be a big tent and as such inclusive of all people who appreciate the marque, and have different interests, and expectations. There is no ideological worship of Jaguar cars, or straitjacketed participation. If you want to show a car do it, if all you want to do is drive and eat go for it. If somebody wants to take a new car off the showroom floor and show it - so what - they will only be competing with other new cars. JCNA is not a shrine for classic Jaguars.
It might surprise some to know that at a typical show the most numerous car type is E Types. Between concours entrants, in their own championship and driven classes, entrants in the modified show class and non judged cars just put on the field by their owners there may be more than twice as many E Types as the next type on the field. The top classic show cars are virtually always restored, and in most instances done professionally, so they are also there in a basic detailing contest. But it doesn’t matter. Ninety five percent of the people there are just there to have a fun day. Most will not be competing regionally or nationally and will only enter their own show - but if a national competition is your thing - well it’s there for you. As is rallye and autocross, again in a national competition if that’s what you want.
Yes JCNA and their local clubs face problems with declining membership. Unfortunately this is a problem with virtually all clubs. Jaguar is not exclusively or mostly exclusively a sports car maker, like Porsche or Corvette, so it’s more difficult. Younger people today do not have the same interest in cars, (or golfing etc) as my generation, and some of the more younger generation actually have an open hostility to them. The future for my hobby is not bright, but I can still enjoy it for awhile.
JCNA still has a lot to offer.
I don’t quite understand how more members cost the club money especially at large members at higher dues
I believe the reason why most first time new cars members don’t renew is indeed because they everybody is busy and has plenty of things to keep busy and the car club thing only works for enthusiasts about the cars and that will be mostly classic owners.
Back in the early 2000s, for a couple of years we had a local dealer here in SoFl include club membership in their new sales as a way of supporting the club. I forgot the details but in exchange they show cars at our concours and car shows, got a full page ad in the newsletter etc. almost none of these new members renewed after the first year.
In the old days car clubs werenyour support group, a source of information about the cars etc. nowadays this thing called the internet has changed that.
Has the JCNA done anything to improve the website over the last few years ? I used to go there quite frequently especially the forums since it was so active a few years ago. When the website was changed awhile back I could not figure out how to use it very well and stopped visiting it. My experience is the same as what Len Wheeler describes so if the website is improved it would probably help draw me back in.
68 E-type FHC
I’ve sensed this— refusing to join a car club, I’ve not seeing it up close—and, like all things, it will undoubtedly become a different vibe, as ICE cars inevitably decline.
Not against modern conveyances, at all, but it will be interesting to see a show showcasing Teslas: will folks brag on how they’ve rewritten the code to get 28 miles more range?
Now that’s just funny but you’re probably right.
Just had a cold spell here and heard a dozen news bites about loss of range from 23 to 40% from running heater.
If they have, then it hasn’t resulted in any more forum traffic judging by the E-Type forum. No posts yet on that forum in 2019! I’m afraid that train has left the station. Unusable forum results in no traffic. No traffic rapidly results in no-one visiting the forum. If Jag-Lovers went down for just a month, how many people would never come back?
If it happens they will be doing it on line, not face to face.
…like this entire conversation…
Anyone know how electric cars get their cabin heat? Blow air over something hot like the batteries or the motors (Corvairs blew air over the leaky exhaust manifolds)? Or plain resistive heating coils? Heat pumps would probably be most efficient–reversing the AC. If you take, say, 33% as average loss of range when heating, that means that cabin heating takes fully half as much battery power as driving the wheels!
One of the sound bites mentioned pre heating the car while plugged in and then suffering in silence on your drive. Wonder what the % loss is for A/C.
Maybe install an aftermarket gas heater ala Volkswagon.
Wouldn’t that just be funny ?
Whoops - major thread drift, sorry.
Resistive panels, AFAIK.
Good luck if you get stuck in a snow storm for a few hours.