Looking for paint

Hello John,
Maybe I’m at cross purposes with others regarding the terminology. I comprehended the discussion as Single Stage being that it was a two pack (using a catalyst) (2K) system, but the colour and gloss is with the paint being applied, with no other subsequent product application required, hence the term “Single Stage”; we call that paint system “Direct Gloss”. Some paint manufacturers have the letters “DG” as part of the paint specification, which stands for Direct Gloss. In this system, whatever paint that’s been prepared and not used, will be discarded as it contains a setting catalyst.

What I comprehended from this Thread is that a Two Stage system was referring to Clear over Base, which uses a Base Coat, that is the colour and is a 1K product that doesn’t use a catalyst, followed by a Clear Coat that uses a catalyst, over the coloured Base Coat. The Base Coat, off the gun, has a rather Semi Gloss appearance, very reminiscent to that of the old Acrylic Lacquer paint systems that were the cutting edge back in the late 60’s. Any left over Base Coat can be saved, whilst any left over, prepared Clear Coat will have to be discarded due to it containing a setting catalyst.

With regards to the degree of ease in doing a small paint repair as you have described, I don’s see much difference between Clear over Base and what I call Direct Gloss, both using a 2K top coat; in each case, you would end up painting the whole door. It could be argued that the colour matching with the Clear over Base may be a little more forgiving, for all but one adjacent panel, as the Base Coat can be edged out from the main repair area, then buried in clear. The colour of the original paint will be seen through the clear at the adjacent panel shut lines.

With the 2K, Direct Gloss systems, where its typical to paint the whole panel, the colour match has to be right. You can blend the edge of the Direct Gloss, 2K system, out from the repair area, but its more difficult in not getting a feather edge at the extreme edge of the paint repair.

With the repair of a 1K paint system, which functions more like an Acrylic Lacquer paint system, the surface of the original substrate will melt with the application of reducer. This allows for the edges of the main paint repair area to be blown out onto a wider area around the repair and melt into the original substrate; thus avoiding an obvious edge to the repair. Any left over paint from a 1K paint system can be saved.

So, in order of ease of pint repair of the damage you described, if the original system was a 1K product, then the 1K system wins hands down. If the original paint system is a 2K system (paint using a catalyst), then it’s line ball as to which of Clear over Base, or Direct Gloss is easiest in a small repair scenario.

Regards,

Bill

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Bill, thank you for this. It is probably the best synopsis I’ve ever read regarding single and multi-stage paints as to ease of touch-ups on a routine basis for any rock chip, scratch or gouge on a showpiece car.

So fortunate I can still do this with lacquer in the comfort of my garage.

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Automotive paints and hardeners are not a typical consumer friendly and widely available item. All body shops are if full production, there have been some temporary supply issues in the last 2 years. NAPA or Carquest here in Canada are about as retail as you can get. All brands are available you just have to find the supplier is your area. I use BASF, but would have no problem using Sherwin Williams Automotive division products, they are top tier.

Good description Bill, one small detail. the melting in as you state is completely gone with lacquer. You have to rely on surface adhesion and is tricky to do on a show type finish. Its best reserved for non obvious areas, or very advanced painters in prominent areas.

Not so Richard. The final finish obtained with either a 1K or 2K paint system can be very similar and difficult to determine what paint system has been used simply by eye. Our ultimate test is to apply reducer to an obscure area of the paint. Two Pack paint resists the reducer, even with robust rubbing with reducer on a cloth. 1K lacquer easily softens and colours the cloth.

Sorry, when I said gone with Lacquer I’m mean since it’s no longer available, because of VOC compliance issues. I guess you are correct there may still be very few older cars with it?
With modern two pack material, it’s a dinosaur!
And in most surface coating discussions, its mostly ignored because of availability.

I’m so very glad my car and I are in a lacquer dinosaur time machine, both fully operational and not extinct. Winning best-of-show at a concours out of 350 entrants with 34 year old paint in 2019, and last touched up and waxed in 2017, solidifies my position on the discussion. I feel very fortunate.

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I was raised using that old stuff, I did many show cars for myself and others, spotting in Lacquer (melting) was its greatest strength. Because it is an unstable product its is very susceptible to other solvents. Break fluids spilled or even sitting compound on a rag too long on the surface can mark it, not to mention checking developing on the third layer if you don’t use flex agents.
Yes it is a dinosaur compared to Today’s bullet proof coatings.
Your beautiful car on the other hand looks fabulous!
I still remember seeing a black show car painted with Nitrocellulose Lacquer (before acrylic Lacquer) it was the shiniest straightest car even today I have ever seen!
My own opalescent green (BASF 2K) 66 will receive a change up on the original sage interior.
Cheers Richard

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I love Opalescent Green almost as much as BRG! Your car looks magnificent.

This happened to me when I was working on the carbs back in 1987. Almost gave me a heart attack as I lifted a rag soaked in lacquer thinner and it pulled a 3" wad of paint right down to the primer off the scuttle. That’s when I learned how to paint, and it was pretty easy (and forgiving) to pick up the technique. Got my first JCNA first place win a few weeks later.

BTW, I understand the value of today’s modern paints, but time and money is against me. I won’t be painting any other cars in my lifetime, and I don’t wish to invest the money it would take to build a paint booth and supply it with the ventilation equipment I’d need to repaint the car I have, especially because it will never need it. What I have will work for me for the rest of my time here.

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Meh: The money you will soon be raking in for repairing clocks, you’ll be able to buy another E type! :slight_smile:

LOL, clock repair is just above minimum wage, until I get really good at it. Then…it’s just a little more above minimum wage!

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You could actually lacquer your car in your driveway…… on a calm day.
Fix everything with a little wet sand and a buff!

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Hello Richard,
Acrylic Lacquer is available from a number of manufacturers and many suppliers, here in Australia.

Regards,

Bill

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Good to know, Bill. Thanks for the tip. It’s been discontinued here in the states, a few years ago, shortly after I bought my last quart of BRG.

I’ve done it! Usually on the garage though. The stuff is great!

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I’m actually surprised as the evaporative solvent, transfer medium goes straight to the atmosphere. It hasn’t been available here in Canada for about 35-40 years! Except some furniture variants.
At 100-150% thinner vs more modern paints at about 20-25% and a large part of that safer alcohols.
You guys are killing us! Lol

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I found Chromabase paint in the US I figure it’s about 3500 dollars for a gal with all the extras to use the whole system
The BC is 1700/ gal I didn’t ask if they ever sell any
How much paint you guys figure to paint a bonnet outside

If you’re asking about bare metal respray of single stage urethane, colour only, three wet coats, a quart will be more than enough. A pint not enough. A quart will give you better than 3 pints of sprayable paint. Lots. HVLP

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Thks Nick hvlp puts about 30% more paint on the car instead of the filters, fans ,floor