[Lumps!] How many holes it takes to fill Prince Alberts Hall

David

If this gets through, very nice work, and thank you Dave. Anxious to see the
pix.
Richard>Smitty & list,

I’m not sure this post will get through, my ISP has been sold and am
having trouble getting email today. I don’t know if my messages are
getting out, if they are,
The Hood vent is from a Chevy Lumina Z-34. Model years 1990-1994
The part numbers are listed as follows:
Louver,Hood Air (White listed,Order by Application)
(91-92 L/R) 10178478-9 $53.24
(93-94 L/R) 10207450-1 $53.25

The lower “baffle” appears to be the lower portion which attaches to the
louver in an under the hood position,
it is listed as follows:

Baffle,Louver R 10256882 $15.60
L 10188367 $15.60

I’m still waiting to download my email to see if I got a Jpeg from
someone on the Beretta list. Apparently someone there has pix of the
louvers. The exploded view I have from the service parts catalog is part
of the hood diagram and does not give a good representation of the
actual look or application or measurement.

Hope this got through.

David Hunt (flying blind)

Hi Richard,
As in most production work, be it one product or 1 million the set-up time
and the production of that first prototype is what costs the most. Check out
how much R & D spends on the production of some new item vs. how much that
item costs after the first run has been made and sold and the second run
begins.
On one item, though lets say I’m getting paid $15.00 an hr. to lay out my
design , complete my setup, punch my first louver ( I’d do the first practice
punch on a piece of scrap crs. approxiamately the same thickness as what the
real louvers will be punched out of!) Then I’d QC it (not “Quick Check”, but
Quality Control) If its OK I’d run it over to the QC lab where they sit
around getting paid $25-$50 an hr to drink coffee! Get them to sign it off.
Punch 1 in the bonnet repeat the above process, getting the First real louver
signed off on the blue print and the work travel papers. Then I’d see how
long my set-up took write it down. Punch 10 more if they want that many, then
time them rechecking the set-up and the if its all still within tolerance,
then punch the other side. Normally a job like this will run me about 2-3
hrs, then the company bills my work to the customer at $250 per hr, Ok the
job just went from $30.00 to $500.00 I get paid my $30 and the company makes
$470.00 ! Only in America! I still think a series of stategically placed heat
release holes would be a better bet. The Bonnets not butchered AND believe it
or not the heat would dissapate better or at least as good as with louvers
w/o the water getting all over the engine. In my humble opinion (IMHO) Albert
Escalante

Albert, Richard, et al,

I am working on a project for GM and the GM guy I interface with is a
body engineer, we were talking about the hood scoop/vent thing last
week, he said he will get the part number for a stock recessed
scoop/vent that might fit what we are all wanting to do. He suggested
that two scoops be mounted, one that feeds the air intake and the other
that is open to the engine bay to allow hot air to lift out. Either one
or both could also have a tray(s) with drainage ports to pass rain. I’ll
post the part number and I can even get a Jpeg of the part and send it
to Charlie so we can all see what it looks like.

David Hunt

David,
Yes by all means, send the JPEG.
I will post it to the site.

         Charlie
         Lumps Admin.
         Matawan, New Jersey,   USA
         83 XJ6 350 Vette eng TH700R4*************************

----- Original Message -----
From: “David Hunt” david@netaware.net
To: Aeseeyou@aol.com
Cc: Lumps@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Lumps!] How many holes it takes to fill Prince Alberts Hall.

Albert, Richard, et al,

I am working on a project for GM and the GM guy I interface with is a
body engineer, we were talking about the hood scoop/vent thing last
week, he said he will get the part number for a stock recessed
scoop/vent that might fit what we are all wanting to do. He suggested
that two scoops be mounted, one that feeds the air intake and the other
that is open to the engine bay to allow hot air to lift out. Either one
or both could also have a tray(s) with drainage ports to pass rain. I’ll
post the part number and I can even get a Jpeg of the part and send it
to Charlie so we can all see what it looks like.

David Hunt

Charlie,

I’ll shoot for next week, may wind uo being week after.
I have also been taking digital pix of the XJS teardown, it’s down to a
rolling shell right now, awaiting bead blast and elpo dip, if that
happens soon, I will try to take additional pix.

David

David,
As soon as you can, let me (us) know. Each day in Phoenix gets a little
hotter. I did resolve the vacuuming that was not vacuuming. It turned out
to be another coil. That is 3 per year since I have had this car. The auto
parts guy that I talked to this time said that the HEI distributor’s coil is
really susceptible to heat and that if I am getting unusual heat build up
under the hood then that is why the coils are going bad so often. Makes
sense.

J. Rick Smith, AKA: Smitty
76XJ12L L82
AIM: Smitty 76XJ12L----- Original Message -----
From: David Hunt david@netaware.net
To: Aeseeyou@aol.com
Cc: Lumps@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Saturday, 06 May, 2000 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Lumps!] How many holes it takes to fill Prince Alberts Hall.

Albert, Richard, et al,

I am working on a project for GM and the GM guy I interface with is a
body engineer, we were talking about the hood scoop/vent thing last
week, he said he will get the part number for a stock recessed
scoop/vent that might fit what we are all wanting to do. He suggested
that two scoops be mounted, one that feeds the air intake and the other
that is open to the engine bay to allow hot air to lift out. Either one
or both could also have a tray(s) with drainage ports to pass rain. I’ll
post the part number and I can even get a Jpeg of the part and send it
to Charlie so we can all see what it looks like.

David Hunt

Charlie,

It looks pretty ugly right now, sometimes I wonder when the light at the end
of the tunnel will stop being another train. I just keep remembering all the
projects that list members have done and think to myself, “someday I will
have a finished car as well”.

David

Charlie wrote:> That’s Cool…

         Charlie
         Lumps Admin.
         Matawan, New Jersey,   USA
         83 XJ6 350 Vette eng TH700R4
         *************************

----- Original Message -----
From: “David Hunt” <@David_Hunt>
To: “Charlie” chache@thethinker.com
Cc: Lumps@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Lumps!] How many holes it takes to fill Prince Alberts Hall.

Charlie,

I’ll shoot for next week, may wind uo being week after.
I have also been taking digital pix of the XJS teardown, it’s down to a
rolling shell right now, awaiting bead blast and elpo dip, if that
happens soon, I will try to take additional pix.

David

Smitty,

We continue working on the project on Monday so I will ask for the part # and
type and let you know sometime Monday night, I also have to go to a Boy Scout
ceremony for my son so I may not post until later Monday night.

David

“J. Rick Smith” wrote:> David,

As soon as you can, let me (us) know. Each day in Phoenix gets a little
hotter. I did resolve the vacuuming that was not vacuuming. It turned out
to be another coil. That is 3 per year since I have had this car. The auto
parts guy that I talked to this time said that the HEI distributor’s coil is
really susceptible to heat and that if I am getting unusual heat build up
under the hood then that is why the coils are going bad so often. Makes
sense.

J. Rick Smith, AKA: Smitty
76XJ12L L82
AIM: Smitty 76XJ12L

----- Original Message -----
From: David Hunt <@David_Hunt>
To: Aeseeyou@aol.com
Cc: Lumps@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Saturday, 06 May, 2000 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Lumps!] How many holes it takes to fill Prince Alberts Hall.

Albert, Richard, et al,

I am working on a project for GM and the GM guy I interface with is a
body engineer, we were talking about the hood scoop/vent thing last
week, he said he will get the part number for a stock recessed
scoop/vent that might fit what we are all wanting to do. He suggested
that two scoops be mounted, one that feeds the air intake and the other
that is open to the engine bay to allow hot air to lift out. Either one
or both could also have a tray(s) with drainage ports to pass rain. I’ll
post the part number and I can even get a Jpeg of the part and send it
to Charlie so we can all see what it looks like.

David Hunt

Charlie,
I hail from Pennsylvania originally, although I have been in the desert for
the last 19 years.
I can tell you that there is a major difference in how heat effects cars out
here. Starting about this time (or very soon) we will be above 100 degrees
during the day and by the end of June, that will be the condition at night,
with 10 or so being the average during the day. From about June to the end
August (sometimes into September) we do not get below 100 at night as well.
The excessive heat play hell on batteries. I have yet to not pay full price
for a battery due to the warranties (in other words, I have never had a
battery make it the intended life), all the major car companies play here in
the desert due to the heat conditions, two of the big 4 paint companies have
test fields here and … well I can go on, and I won’t even attempt to
explain what the lack of humidity does with the heat to the foam rubber or
standard rubber parts. I have been told numerous times now that the HEI is
very susceptible to the heat of an engine compartment, and in 4 years of
driving this Kitty, I have put as many coils in. Sometimes even that little
chip that lays in the recesses of the distributor near the suppressor
capacitor tests out bad.
Now don’t get me wrong, we desert dwellers understand our plight. I mean we
miss out on all that wonderful yard work in the fall, raking leaves,
draining outside pipes, shoveling snow, frozen roads, potholes from frozen
roads, broken tie-rod ends from potholes, not seeing the sun shine from
November to May, things like that. And I tell you, what red blooded
testosterone filled man would feel good about laying beside the pool each
night after work.
But I can tell you that if someone with reasonable knowledge behind the
counter tells me that the heat will cause these things to malfunction, then
I believe. Short of running around with the hood off, which was normal in
some of the outskirts of the city not long ago, the answer has to be in some
sort of venting. Oh BTW, Wells is the Mfg. on the coil (this time). The
thing warns me each time that it starts. When I run the car and try to get
back into it within 30 minutes of shutting it off, then I can forget
starting it until I pop the hood (o the safety catch only) to allow a breeze
or just less hot hair in there or vent the super heated air out (which
ever), give it 10 minutes and I am fine. If I drive around with the hood
popped to the safety latch, no problems. But I assure you that when I drive
it, park it and attempt to re-start. I could get grayer than I already am
waiting on it to cool down in there enough to start. Put a new coil in and
“I go balls to the wall with he heat”. From October to March, I never have
any problem with it. Work out the logic Charlie. Heat is killing the coils
and drafting that air out of there is going to be the answer to the hot
start problems. When I got stranded with it the other day, I drove from
North Phoenix to Cave Creek, picked up my daughter and turned around. About
half way back it started acting up at de-accelerations and finally at a
red-light, boom. Plenty of fuel, plenty of battery and a Auto Zone on the
corner. Change out the coil, vr-o-o-o-m I am going again and have put over
100 miles in the day time heat without so much as even a flutter in
performance. Like I said, dealing with the heat and I presume a variety of
coils from a variety of manufacturers, is an easy do. Venting this cat to
prevent that kind of heat build up is the key. I am going to put one of
those inside - outside thermometer things in the engine compartment and get
some reading to report to the list. It should be interesting.

J. Rick Smith, AKA: Smitty
76XJ12L L82
AIM: Smitty 76XJ12L----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie chache@thethinker.com
To: J. Rick Smith <@J_Rick_Smith1>
Sent: Saturday, 06 May, 2000 02:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Lumps!] How many holes it takes to fill Prince Alberts Hall.

I’d like to say " Balderdash" to the heat susceptibility of the HEI coil.
Having had one, in numerous vehicles, in a hot and humid climate.
present 350, has had one since it’s inception, and temps here in NJ,
range from low teens, to over 100 degrees, today’s humidity is at 78%,
and The Lady runs, a hot, 220 degrees.
It has been without problems, for 2 years now.
Now, I don’t know why Ariz. heat is different than any other,
but heat (to me) is heat.
Have you tried another manufacturer’s coil?
It may perhaps, be the quality of the one you are using.
But in any case, I am sure that there are many other vehicles
in Ariz., with HEI, that run well. Why yours, should be different,
just because you have a lump, is beyond me.

What brand do you have? It would be interesting to compare.

         Charlie
         Lumps Admin.
         Matawan, New Jersey,   USA
         83 XJ6 350 Vette eng TH700R4
         *************************

----- Original Message -----
From: “J. Rick Smith” <@J_Rick_Smith1>
To: “Jaguar [Lumps] LIST” Lumps@jag-lovers.org; david@netaware.net
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Lumps!] How many holes it takes to fill Prince Alberts Hall.

David,
As soon as you can, let me (us) know. Each day in Phoenix gets a little
hotter. I did resolve the vacuuming that was not vacuuming. It turned
out

to be another coil. That is 3 per year since I have had this car. The
auto

parts guy that I talked to this time said that the HEI distributor’s
coil is

really susceptible to heat and that if I am getting unusual heat build
up

under the hood then that is why the coils are going bad so often. Makes
sense.

J. Rick Smith, AKA: Smitty
76XJ12L L82
AIM: Smitty 76XJ12L

----- Original Message -----
From: David Hunt david@netaware.net
To: Aeseeyou@aol.com
Cc: Lumps@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Saturday, 06 May, 2000 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Lumps!] How many holes it takes to fill Prince Alberts
Hall.

Albert, Richard, et al,

I am working on a project for GM and the GM guy I interface with is a
body engineer, we were talking about the hood scoop/vent thing last
week, he said he will get the part number for a stock recessed
scoop/vent that might fit what we are all wanting to do. He suggested
that two scoops be mounted, one that feeds the air intake and the
other

that is open to the engine bay to allow hot air to lift out. Either
one

or both could also have a tray(s) with drainage ports to pass rain.
I’ll

post the part number and I can even get a Jpeg of the part and send it
to Charlie so we can all see what it looks like.

David Hunt

At 09:54 PM 05/07/2000 -0700, J. Rick Smith wrote:

Like I said, dealing with the heat and I presume a variety of
coils from a variety of manufacturers, is an easy do. Venting this cat to
prevent that kind of heat build up is the key. I am going to put one of
those inside - outside thermometer things in the engine compartment and get
some reading to report to the list. It should be interesting.

J. Rick Smith, AKA: Smitty
76XJ12L L82
AIM: Smitty 76XJ12L

Smitty

Check The XJ-S list they’re doing that same project and might have some
ideas.
Fried coils seem to be a frequent occurrence for them too.

Wes Channell
'83 Xj6 350/TPI/4l60
Klamath Falls Oregon USA

Smitty & list,

I’m not sure this post will get through, my ISP has been sold and am
having trouble getting email today. I don’t know if my messages are
getting out, if they are,
The Hood vent is from a Chevy Lumina Z-34. Model years 1990-1994
The part numbers are listed as follows:
Louver,Hood Air (White listed,Order by Application)
(91-92 L/R) 10178478-9 $53.24
(93-94 L/R) 10207450-1 $53.25

The lower “baffle” appears to be the lower portion which attaches to the
louver in an under the hood position,
it is listed as follows:

Baffle,Louver R 10256882 $15.60
L 10188367 $15.60

I’m still waiting to download my email to see if I got a Jpeg from
someone on the Beretta list. Apparently someone there has pix of the
louvers. The exploded view I have from the service parts catalog is part
of the hood diagram and does not give a good representation of the
actual look or application or measurement.

Hope this got through.

David Hunt (flying blind)

Charlie, Richard,Smitty,Albert and everyone else who has email with
questions,

My email is finally back up and running. Alleluia!
I did get a post back from the GM Tech and he had a reply from the Beretta
page. Here is the quoted post, go there and check out the vent/intakes.
Apparently this guy only uses them for heat escape but it looks like
forming an intake pan to line up with the horn off a breather would be
pretty easy to fabricate. Just dont for get to drill a drain hole at the
low point for obvious reasons…See what ya’ll think.

David Hunt
'83 XJS 350/350 (thinking about a rat motor)
'78 XJS

John Stiller wrote:> Dave,

Here’s the first response that I got from the Beretta list on the vents.

John
-----Original Message-----
From: Seth Kussmaul sethk89gt@yahoo.com
To: brendastiller@sprynet.com brendastiller@sprynet.com
Date: Monday, May 08, 2000 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: Z34 vents

check out this link to Pete Sprenger’s page.
http://www.geocities.com:80/MotorCity/Boulevard/6117/outside.html

Seth K 89GT(Z)

john.stiller@gm.com wrote:

Hello,
I was telling someone today about the Z34 hood
vents. This guy is doing a early
70’s Jaguar, and updating it with a small block
chevy powertrain. Anyway, he
told his email list about the Z34 vents in the hood
and some of them are curious
about it. I know a few of you have made this
alteration in your Berettas. Do
you have any pictures of this?

I don’t have a 90-94 service manual for Lumina, but
if I did, I would scan the
service manual illustration of the exploded view of
the hood with all of the
components. Anybody have that and a scanner? What
about that guy on this list
who has the 5 speed Lumina from Midland MI? Vents
in the hood? Digital pics?

Thanks a bunch guys.

John Stiller
89 GT 252K

Smitty & list,

I’m not sure this post will get through, my ISP has been sold and am
having trouble getting email today. I don’t know if my messages are
getting out, if they are,
The Hood vent is from a Chevy Lumina Z-34. Model years 1990-1994

I had these louvers installed on my 91 Lumina EuroSport after the bonnet
was damaged by hail. They looked cool but were TOTALLY non functional.
The baffles prevent any air movement out of the louvers. They also are
designed to duct water to the side rails in the engine compartment.

I pulled the car into a dealer for service and the service writer looks at
the louvers and starts to write Z34 then notices the four doors and said
‘hey they didn’t make 4 door Z34’s’. I told them they did for me.

Dr. Michael E. Rothman
Series III USA '87 January build

Peoples Republic of Oak Park, Illinois
(Borders on Chacago)
Village Motto:
There is no problem so big you can’t throw money at it to make it go away.
If it doesn’t, throw more money.

Change out the coil, vr-o-o-o-m I am going again and have put over
100 miles in the day time heat without so much as even a flutter in
performance.

Since the HEI coil seems to be such a weak link in the system, is there some
motivation to swap out the HEI? Perhaps you might want to consider dumping the
HEI, which is ideal in more moderate climes, for a standard distributor with a
magnetic pickup and standard or high performance coil. These systems run baja
so they sound like they might be more adpatable to what you have to deal with.

Venting this cat to prevent that kind of heat build up is the key. I am going
to put one of those inside - outside thermometer things in the engine
compartment and get
some reading to report to the list. It should be interesting.

I agree. It’ll be interesting to see how your results compare with Albert’s.
Richard