[Lumps!] Springs & Spacers

Lumps
1

Hello Experts!

Quick question. Getting ready over the next 48 hours to put the springs back in the
front of the Kitty. On tear down, found that I had three spacers on the springs.
One on the bottom (comment on this in a minute) and two on top.

Could someone (anyone) confirm the rule of thumb here on the spacers as being for
every 1/8" spacer that I remove, that I will drop the front end by 5/8"?

According to Haynes Manual (pictures), it looks like the P.O. put one of the spacers
on the bottom of the springs in error? I had a little rust in the pan due to the
fact that the neoprene spacer had molded itself to the drain hole that was in the
steel ring that is in the bottom of the pan.

Right now the Kitty sits level (rocker panel measurements) and it is my intent to
drop the front end just a little for that racked look. Won’t be much! Intent is to
take one spacer out and drop it the 5/8" which will be a mild drop.

I am going to be under the car in about an hour, finishing the bushings and the ball
joints on the passenger side. Not going to put springs in until tomorrow (my
schedule at this point). Comments today would be appreciated.

J. Rick Smith
Phoenix, Arizona
`76 XJ12L L82 [LS9] 350ci. w/700R4
Pictures at: http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=965746515
AIM Screen Name: UG2R56271BW

2

Rick,

Look on page 161 of the Haynes manual, chapter 11/Suspension and steering,
section 6 Front coil spring - removal and refitting. It tells us,

“On some models, packing pieces may be found on top of the spring or in the
spring pan. These are used to adjust side-to-side riding height. To check
the riding height, measure between the centres of the outer headlamps and
the ground. The two dimensions should be equal at 24.5/8 in. If necessary
vary the packing pieces. The addition or removal of a packing piece will
vary the riding height by 5/16 in.”

Since the packing pieces are 1/8 inch thick, that means the suspension is
operating at a factor of 2.5 to 1. Do the math, 5/16 divided by 1/8 equals
2.5. Incidentally, if you’re inclined towards lowering the car further like
I was, if you make spring pan spacers, the same 2.5 to 1 rule applies. I
wouldn’t recommend using just washers for spring pan spacers, but if you use
solid aluminum bar stock like I did, you should be fine. My car is now
lowered, looks the way I want it to, but doesn’t suffer any handling
problems either. No doubt someone will reply recommending against this
practice and that doesn’t bother me a bit. Good luck, Rick,

-TIM-'79XJ6L383Lump
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=980908750----- Original Message -----
From: “AZ: `76 XJ12L” ug2r56271bw@home.com
To: “Jaguar [Lumps] LIST” Lumps@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 6:49 AM
Subject: [Lumps!] Springs & Spacers

Hello Experts!

Quick question. Getting ready over the next 48 hours to put the springs
back in the
front of the Kitty. On tear down, found that I had three spacers on the
springs.
One on the bottom (comment on this in a minute) and two on top.

Could someone (anyone) confirm the rule of thumb here on the spacers as
being for
every 1/8" spacer that I remove, that I will drop the front end by 5/8"?

According to Haynes Manual (pictures), it looks like the P.O. put one of
the spacers
on the bottom of the springs in error? I had a little rust in the pan due
to the
fact that the neoprene spacer had molded itself to the drain hole that was
in the
steel ring that is in the bottom of the pan.

Right now the Kitty sits level (rocker panel measurements) and it is my
intent to
drop the front end just a little for that racked look. Won’t be much!
Intent is to
take one spacer out and drop it the 5/8" which will be a mild drop.

I am going to be under the car in about an hour, finishing the bushings
and the ball
joints on the passenger side. Not going to put springs in until tomorrow
(my
schedule at this point). Comments today would be appreciated.

J. Rick Smith
Phoenix, Arizona
`76 XJ12L L82 [LS9] 350ci. w/700R4
Pictures at: http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=965746515
AIM Screen Name: UG2R56271BW

3

Incidentally, if you’re inclined towards lowering the car further like
I was, if you make spring pan spacers, the same 2.5 to 1 rule applies. I
wouldn’t recommend using just washers for spring pan spacers, but if you
use
solid aluminum bar stock like I did, you should be fine. My car is now
lowered, looks the way I want it to, but doesn’t suffer any handling
problems either. No doubt someone will reply recommending against this
practice and that doesn’t bother me a bit. Good luck, Rick,

Cool ! I like it. How much did you lower it and did have have any problems
with camber adjustments afterwards ?

Doug Dwyer----- Original Message -----
From: “Hoffman-bunch” hoffman-bunch@prodigy.net

4

Tim:

| Look on page 161 of the Haynes manual, chapter 11/Suspension and steering, | section 6 Front coil spring - removal and refitting. It tells us,

Yes, in my Haynes, on Page 257, Chapter 11, Section 7, Paragraph 4 & 5 (Xj12 and
Double Six), it says the same, (Except mine does not say, “On some models, packing
pieces may be found on top of the spring or in the spring pan.”)

But I have seen posted and was advised that it actually was 5/8 and that it was a 5
to one ratio. That is why I posted to see what anyone else has actually experienced.

As I mentioned, I am level right now and I want just a little rake effect. There are
three in there now, and I am leery of taking 2 of them out by the Haynes calculation
to get the 5/8" drop.

—Do you think that a 5/8" drop is too much?

—Or should I just be conservative and go for removing one spacer?

—Should there be a spacer in the bottom blocking that drain hole? (The spring will
compress the neoprene into that hole I am sure like it did before.

Anyone jump in here please as I am sure that I will be putting this all back together
sometime this weekend.

Smitty

5

Smitty,

I actually experienced the 2.5 to 1 rule to be true in lowering my car, to
within a 32nd of an inch. One spacer is only going to make about 5/16 of
difference in ride height. My car had spacers both above and below the
springs. If you want to put them just on top of the springs, that should be
fine in my humble opinion. I’m just curious, how many “packing pieces” or
“leveling shims” did you have? Hope this helps. Let us know how it turns
out.
-TIM-'79XJ6L383Lump----- Original Message -----
From: “AZ: `76 XJ12L” ug2r56271bw@home.com
To: “Jaguar [Lumps] LIST” Lumps@jag-lovers.org; “Hoffman-bunch”
<@Hoffman-bunch>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Lumps!] Springs & Spacers

Tim:

| Look on page 161 of the Haynes manual, chapter 11/Suspension and

steering,

| section 6 Front coil spring - removal and refitting. It tells us,

Yes, in my Haynes, on Page 257, Chapter 11, Section 7, Paragraph 4 & 5
(Xj12 and
Double Six), it says the same, (Except mine does not say, “On some models,
packing
pieces may be found on top of the spring or in the spring pan.”)

But I have seen posted and was advised that it actually was 5/8 and that
it was a 5
to one ratio. That is why I posted to see what anyone else has actually
experienced.

As I mentioned, I am level right now and I want just a little rake effect.
There are
three in there now, and I am leery of taking 2 of them out by the Haynes
calculation
to get the 5/8" drop.

—Do you think that a 5/8" drop is too much?

—Or should I just be conservative and go for removing one spacer?

—Should there be a spacer in the bottom blocking that drain hole? (The
spring will
compress the neoprene into that hole I am sure like it did before.

Anyone jump in here please as I am sure that I will be putting this all
back together
sometime this weekend.

Smitty

6

Hello Doug, et all,

Bill Smith and I just recently had a conversation on lowering tips and the
approach I took with my S2. The full scoop is below. To answer Doug’s
questions, I created 7/16 lowering spacers to drop the front end about
1&3/32 inch, or just a hair under 1&1/4. Camber was not a problem with this
much drop. It remained positive and adjustable within spec. Here’s a link to
view the car, which doesn’t look excessively lowered, and below are more
details from my chat with Bill.
-TIM-'79XJ6L383Lump
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=980908750
Hi Bill,

The spacers were made from 3/4 wide flat aluminum bar
stock I got at a local metal salvage yard. I used two thicknesses added
together for each spacer; 1/4 and 3/16, for a total of 7/16. I needed to
bend the bars to match the shape of the control arm. After a little
experimentation, I settled on the approach of cutting a small pie shape on
the inside of each bend before bending. I first drew the centerline on the
bars with a permanent marker. As you bend them, the two sides of the
triangular cut should come back together and the centerlines should line
up.
Once the bars were bent to shape, I would line them up with a control arm
and drill the necessary holes followed by cutting them to length.

The springs themselves weren’t that difficult to deal with. I made a
spring
compressor out of 3/4 inch all-thread from the hardware store and large
flat
washers. I cut a piece about 18 inches long and ran it up through the hole
in the center of the control arm and the spring pocket in the subframe.
You’ll have to have the front end up on blocks under the control arms to
get
the rods in there. That’s because the springs need to be compressed by the
weight of the car in order for the holes to line up between the spring
pans
and the subframe. After that, a nut and a large flat washer can be
threaded
onto each end. You want to tighten it up as much as possible before
lifting
the car off the jack stands and repositioning the jack stands from beneath
the control arms to beneath the subframe. Then you’re ready to continue
compressing the spring without the weight of the car on it. You want to be
very careful because at this point the spring compressor is under
tremendous
tension from the spring.
The threaded rod is held from turning with a pair of Vise-Grips as the
lower
nut is tightened up. This finishes collapsing the spring in the
suspension.
The bolts and nuts holding the spring pan to the control arm are removed
and
then the spring compressor loosened until there is no more compression of
the spring and the spring pan and spring can then be withdrawn from the
control arm. Pay careful attention to how many spring spacer leveling
shims
are on each side.

To greatly aid reassembly, install two long threaded rods into the center
two control arm stud holes. This way you can guide the spring pan into the
correct position as you tighten up the spring compressor nut/threaded rod
combo’. You might find it helpful to tape the leveling shims to the
springs
before you begin this. Once you have the spring pan back into position
complete with pan spacers and compressed spring, you can tighten up the
bolt
and nut combination that passes all the way through the control arm and
spring pan at the outer end of the assembly and then put the nuts on the
longer than stock studs that would have been installed at the other end.
With these two ends buttoned up, you can then remove the long threaded rod
guide-studs from the center positions and replace them with bolts or studs
and nuts of the proper length. Incidentally, you’ll need to predetermine
how
long these revised studs/nuts/bolts will need to be depending on how thick
you make the lowering spacers.

When all this happy stuff is completed, you can then put the shock
absorbers
and sway bar links back in place. The front end won’t settle down entirely
until you take the car for a spin around the block. Then you can take a
step> back and admire your revised ride height. Let me know if you have any more
questions. Take care,
-TIM-

----- Original Message -----
From: “Doug Dwyer” DWYERD@email.msn.com
To: “Lumps List” lumps@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Lumps!] Springs & Spacers

----- Original Message -----
From: “Hoffman-bunch” <@Hoffman-bunch>

Incidentally, if you’re inclined towards lowering the car further like
I was, if you make spring pan spacers, the same 2.5 to 1 rule applies. I
wouldn’t recommend using just washers for spring pan spacers, but if you
use
solid aluminum bar stock like I did, you should be fine. My car is now
lowered, looks the way I want it to, but doesn’t suffer any handling
problems either. No doubt someone will reply recommending against this
practice and that doesn’t bother me a bit. Good luck, Rick,

Cool ! I like it. How much did you lower it and did have have any
problems
with camber adjustments afterwards ?

Doug Dwyer

7

Many thanks for the great post and for taking the time to give the details
of the job. I know what my next project is…

Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA

Bill Smith and I just recently had a conversation on lowering tips and the
approach I took with my S2. The full scoop is below. To answer Doug’s
questions, I created 7/16 lowering spacers to drop the front end about
1&3/32 inch, or just a hair under 1&1/4. Camber was not a problem with
this
much drop. It remained positive and adjustable within spec. Here’s a link
to----- Original Message -----
From: “Hoffman-bunch” hoffman-bunch@prodigy.net
view the car, which doesn’t look excessively lowered, and below are more
details from my chat with Bill.

8

Now…what about lowering the rear suspension ??? Anyone “been there,
done that” ?

Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA

Just caught my fractions error. -7/16 spring pan spacers lowered the car
1&3/32, just under 1&1/8th, not 1&1/4! The rest is right- Anyway, just
look----- Original Message -----
From: “Hoffman-bunch” hoffman-bunch@prodigy.net
at the pictures and use the 2.5 to 1 rule of thumb and decide how much you
want to lower yours. Have fun,
-TIM-'79XJ6L383Lump

9

But I have seen posted and was advised that it actually was 5/8 and that
it was a 5
to one ratio. That is why I posted to see what anyone else has actually
experienced.

Now that we reinstalled all four (on each side, two top of spring, two on
bottom of spring) “packers” on my front end, I can say that the 5:1 ratio
of ride height to packer thickness is quite close to reality. My 79 XJ-S
had a very noticeable rake with the John’s Cars springs and two packers on
each spring. Now that all four are in, the car has a very slight (almost
unnoticable) nose low attitude, the ride height is right at the specified 6"
dimension. The packers raised the car 1.25" -1.5" approx. IMO, this looks
better, and I’m not scraping my spoiler on driveways/dips all the time.
Doesn’t seem to have hurt handling any, either.

—Should there be a spacer in the bottom blocking that drain hole? (The
spring will
compress the neoprene into that hole I am sure like it did before.

Yes, my front end had the spacers (packers) on both top and bottom of spring
when we rebuilt the front end originally. There was a good bit of
accumulated dirt/small gravel in the spring pan, along with some rust. When
we had the spring pan off this time, we drilled a drain hole at the outside
edge of the rounded portion of the pan. BTW, used the all-thread into lower
control arm (4 pieces 9" long) and nuts to decompress/reinstall the spring.
This method works very well, no sense of danger, but is very tedious.

Smitty

Colleen
79 XJ-S enhanced with TPI 350/T700, now with level attitude----- Original Message -----
From: “AZ: `76 XJ12L” ug2r56271bw@home.com
To: “Jaguar [Lumps] LIST” Lumps@jag-lovers.org; “Hoffman-bunch”
hoffman-bunch@prodigy.net
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Lumps!] Springs & Spacers

10

Colleen,
I am now about 4 weeks down the road with the new front end rebuild. I have mixed
emotions about the removal of the packers on the spring. As I had posted, I have two
on top and one on the bottom of the spring, Opting to remove the bottom one and one
top one.
At the time, all new parts, the front end dipped the 1/2" as anticipated by removing
the packers/spacers. What I had not anticipated was that I had placed new springs in
the rear also and I must have gained a little rear end height in the process. Also,
the rebuild took place with less than a 1/4 tank of gas in each saddle. As the weeks
have gone by, I have felt that the removal was a little much, and quite frankly was
considering dropping the springs and putting one of the spacers back in.
Since I have not driven the car all that much over the last few weeks, I have just
been doing the $10 worth of gas routine and was not placing weight of the fuel as
intended by the measurement’s instructions. This last week, I gave her (XJ) a real
good bath, outside, under and inside and filled her tanks. Low and behold, the car
was near level. As I drove, using up the fuel, eliminating the weight, I notice that
the rake came back again. I am presuming that there will have to be a settling in
process since I have placed all these new parts on at one time.
I now have settled into just leaving it alone for now and driving it through the
summer here in Arizona, allowing all the new stuff to settle in well. Come fall when
our temperatures drop down to the frigid 90s, I may go back in and put a spacer back.
As far as the lower packer/spacers, I as I said left them off the bottom, but I too
found that the lower spacer molded itself to the drain hole on the pan, causing lots
of dirt gathering and some minor rust (weird for rust in Arizona, hadn’t seen rust in
some time, at first was not sure what it was :slight_smile:
I didn’t drill the additional holes for drainage, but am going to do so (bottom -
up - pan installed) when I get some energy to get under there again.
Glad to hear from you.
Smitty----- Original Message -----
From: “Colleen” fstcoke@mindspring.com
To: “Jaguar [Lumps] LIST” Lumps@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Sunday, 15 April, 2001 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Lumps!] Springs & Spacers

|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: “AZ: `76 XJ12L” <@AZ_76_XJ12L>
| To: “Jaguar [Lumps] LIST” Lumps@jag-lovers.org; “Hoffman-bunch”
| hoffman-bunch@prodigy.net
| Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 4:22 PM
| Subject: Re: [Lumps!] Springs & Spacers
|
| > But I have seen posted and was advised that it actually was 5/8 and that
| it was a 5
| > to one ratio. That is why I posted to see what anyone else has actually
| experienced.
|
| Now that we reinstalled all four (on each side, two top of spring, two on
| bottom of spring) “packers” on my front end, I can say that the 5:1 ratio
| of ride height to packer thickness is quite close to reality. My 79 XJ-S
| had a very noticeable rake with the John’s Cars springs and two packers on
| each spring. Now that all four are in, the car has a very slight (almost
| unnoticable) nose low attitude, the ride height is right at the specified 6"
| dimension. The packers raised the car 1.25" -1.5" approx. IMO, this looks
| better, and I’m not scraping my spoiler on driveways/dips all the time.
| Doesn’t seem to have hurt handling any, either.
|
| > —Should there be a spacer in the bottom blocking that drain hole? (The
| spring will
| > compress the neoprene into that hole I am sure like it did before.
|
| Yes, my front end had the spacers (packers) on both top and bottom of spring
| when we rebuilt the front end originally. There was a good bit of
| accumulated dirt/small gravel in the spring pan, along with some rust. When
| we had the spring pan off this time, we drilled a drain hole at the outside
| edge of the rounded portion of the pan. BTW, used the all-thread into lower
| control arm (4 pieces 9" long) and nuts to decompress/reinstall the spring.
| This method works very well, no sense of danger, but is very tedious.
|
| > Smitty
|
| Colleen
| 79 XJ-S enhanced with TPI 350/T700, now with level attitude
|
|