Greetings All,
Currently working on a 1934 SS1 Tourer.
I may have to Lump this one as there is missing it’s
original engine, a Standard Flathead 6 cylinder.
Any suggestions?
Contact me through the list if you have any possible
leads for the Standard Flathead.–
Lovell
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
//please trim quoted text to context only
Hi Lovell,
I love the looks SS1 Tourer, if I was you I would look for a Mark IV or Mark V engine that the later Tourers had.
I would love to see some pictures of it.
Greetings All,
Bob S., When the Pile was acquired, I did an immense amount of research. I knew the engine was going to be problematic, but not insurmountable, but just in case… fate was kind to me. I was eventually able to purchase a Jaguar Pushrod OHV engine, 3.5 liters and later a 2.5 version. That is Plan B.
I purchased a NEW aluminum head made by a gentleman out in Australia as the original heads had questionable metallurgy along with a tendency to collapse internally because of their age and corrosion after 75 yeas.
I hope purchasing it was more than wishful thinking regarding getting a correct engine.
While the 3.5 will fit, it might be more than the cable brakes are capable of handling.
Early on, I had a chance to purchase a Standard with the correct engine and obviously a bunch of period parts that could have been used.
Unfortunately, I have a conscience, the car was an older restoration that ran BUT it had matching numbers and I didn’t want to be “That Guy” who parted a survivor vehicle.
Currently car sits on 4 wheels now, though the rear end is a hybrid. The engine swap from a previous owner overpowered the differential. The crown and pinion suffered so the diff was sectioned and a new meatball from a Dodge appears to have been spliced into the original.
I say spliced, as they wanted to keep the wire wheels and brakes for looks, so the cut the center our and installed the stubs from that into the Dodge housing.
I managed to find a correct differential housing along with a crown and pinion assembly.
Pictures…third one is frame, in white because I plan on marking it up as trial fittings are made.
Other two are cowls. First one is mockup of cowl in oak and plywood. Made this as there are so many dimensions that are critical for the rest of the build and I wanted to make sure they were right before committing to building the actual cowl out if marine ply and black locust. The wood is an upgrade because of its shipbuilding qualities.
The other pic shows an original cowl that was used for a pattern and mine. Mine is symmetrical, the original…not so much.
Currently looking for rear axles. Possible vendors, let me know.
Very impressive. I delight in reading and viewing such efforts.
I can visualize the Dodge differential fix. Clever. I don’t recall the badge, but, the center was a casting and axle tubes inserted in it and pinned.in place. My 49 Mercury had one like that. The pins failed and a tube was slipping out. Too much 'soup" added to the mill. And a youg guy’s, me, heavy foot???
Might be hard to find, and not in the scheme of things. But, I have two ideas. One just might look more like the original.
A. 42-48 Flat head Ford six.
B. 32-48 Ford Flat head V8.
Carl
Greetings All,
CadJag… here are a couple of differential pictures.
One shows the tube inserted and welded into the hybrid.
The second shows the hybrid mounted with an empty original unit in front.
The third one shows the rear brake with the tube grafted to the meatball.
What it doesn’t show…it’s narrower than the original. Guessing it had something to do with the donor meatball and modified axles from the SS1 originally.
If any of you know from which of the Big Three that meatball came from please enlighten me.
`Sorry, I just cant be specific. The memory thing. But, a bit of history might help. Ford used torque tubes up til 1949. Then it went to an outsourced axle. Other makers used that source.
Ford went to it’s famed 8" & 9" axles in about 1957.
GM also used torque tubes in Chevrolets and Buicks. til the late 40’s. Then came their 0" and 12 bolt axles. Nameda fter the bolts on the cover.
The name “Hotchkiss” pops up in my mind as the common sourced axle.
Now, mix in DANA!!! Chrysaer used them a lot. They are very strong. They come in many sizes. The architecture resembles the example in your car.
And, of more recent “memory” I spent some time under the back end of my 94 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo. The popular Dana resides there.
Wild card: Sourced from a Japanese “knock off”.
Carl
Greetings CadJag,
Doubt this diff sourced from an import, there weren’t that many imports when this was done.
I have an original ENV SS1 Diff casing and innards, minus the axles.
I also have a CNC Bridgeport and a lathe, so technically, I can make them and might do just that.
So far, the only possible mod. I might make would be brakes. They currently are cable and rod or even hydraulic would make me more secure.
Hudson was also considered as a donor as they had a smaller Flathead in the late 50’s along with an overdrive manual, just thought the Studebaker was easier to source.
Great stuff. Keep “us”, so far just me, posted here. Folks here get it.
I remember my “old” days with cable and rod operated brakes. OK, if one could ever get them balanced. I’ve only driven two that were. .
My friend Roy and I reconstructed a version of an earlier A Ford. Roy had mastered the adjustment of rod operated brakes. Balanced just right, and stopped quite well.
Farmer Bros. operated a coffee company that service restaurants. They had a fleet of ford trucks in various sizes and ages. And an in house shop to refurbish them as needed at HQ in La. My employer did the local service for the local facility. One was a 3/4 37 Ford panel truck. It’s cable operated brakes worked perfectly!!! Twas circa 1950 and the big Ford was as good as new. .
Those Hudson sixes of the 50’s were not little. in size and cubic inches. 48-54. The latter the last year of Hudson…
Pre 48, and on back fr decades, there was a smaller 6.
A lot of years ago, My son bought a little Mazda/Courier
little truck. It’s owner had done a conversion and it went bad.
Installed a Ford 289 V8. Engine issues and a badly bent rear axle. We decided that the engine was just too healthy or the original rear axle. But, most available axles just too wide. They would look dumb. An 8’ Mustang axle seemed a great choice.
Too wide. But the center section was off set. So, one axle was “long”: and the other “short”. The local drive line shop was intrigued and decided their lathe could cut the “long” side of the housing using down to “small” dimension an align and weld it. Done. A “short” side axle sourced. Assembled. It fit just right. Ujoint and drive shaft "fixed’ at the same shop.
Engine more than fixed. Lots of power. Axle OK. A ball to drive.
Good luck with the restification. A term for cars that are somewhere beteen modified and restored.
Carl
:
Greetings CadJag,
My mistake, it was the later Nash Flathead I was looking at, yeah, the Hudson was HUGE!
Nice mod on an offset diff.
I’m into some pretty sophisticated fabrication. I love seeing the ingenuity at the local hot rod shows. So many ideas to steal…er I mean adopt.
Guessing you might have a few years on me, I’m in my late 50’s.
I play with a few different car clubs. We have more than a few members of the MG club who have done very period correct cars, also these guys each have ones that are interestingly modified.
One has an MGA with a V6. The V6 is built and puts out about 260 HP. It has a Ford 9" and is well sorted.
Another has a '67 Midget with a tri carb 4.2 Jaguar engine. The carbs, Weber, far too much time spent dialing that one into being drivable.
The last one, an MGTC that was rescued from a boneyard, a wreck, no engine. The car served as a parts vehicle for one of his other TC’s until he decided it was thirty years later and worthy of saving.
The car went back together with the plethora of parts that were now easily available. There was much cogitation on what should be used for an engine and then…it was decided to power as he would have when he was a younger man.
A Ford Flathead V8, the smaller 60 degree unit was inserted. It’s gorgeously done. Apparently it was a popular mod “back in the day” size and power wise, it is a good choice. Fits the engine bay well, looks impressive and the weight doesn’t overwhelm the front end. Apparently, the V8 is close to the weight of the original 4 cylinder.
Yeah, as to age, about three + decades!!! But, no matter, the sport transcends all.
I dimly recall that little Nash “flat head” six. Odd architecture. Intake and head were common. The exhaust was tubing Just bolted along the block, worst design possible. And prone to head gasket leakage.
Circa 1952, I was in service in Germany. A fellow officer had a black MG TC. He wanted to swap for a closed USA car. I had one, A black 49 Mercury coupe. Alas another had a 50 Ford tudor, They did the swap. Why, I dunno. Perhaps my twin Smitty “steel packs” too loud???
But, the fuse was lit. I sold the Mercury, went carless for a few pay days. Saved up enough for a brand spanking new TD in BRG. Much fun and adventure in it. I was transferred and a fellow officer in my new unit had a red MG. We "raced’ at the former Hockenheim course. Then a simple oval, not the road course it became. His was the MKII version and had just a tad more power. I considered t a victory when we crossed the vintage line side by side.
I recall one so powered and with trimmed fenders and san ruing boards and cut down wires was able to run with the big iron in sport car racing.
Racers and hot rod folks are notorious copy cats.
A year or two ago, one of my favorite magazines had a running article. on the “rectification” of three TD’s. One may have been a TF. One stock and perfect, the next a driver, and the last modified a lot.
Thanks for sharing.
Carl
i’m with cadjag on the Ford inline 6 Flathead, actually a good engine!
fairly light , not much power , but would be close to what you need.
grind off any ford names on it!
couple weeks back was at a storage area , guy had 3 Ford 60 V8s, but didnt want to sell them!
but he is gettin up in age just maybe, and some were in rough shape,look like been in the mud for years!
some how a V8 just dont seem right in that type car.
Ron
I did cross roads with the Ford in line flat head six on more than one occasion
Two late forties Ford 3 yard dump trucks in the “fleet”. Each a “flat head”. One a V8 and the other a 6. Although Unc was not the usual driver of each, he preferred the six. More useful torque.
He preferred his Chevrolet tractor, repowered with a WWII surplus Gimmy 270.
Circa 1949, A chum got a well worn Ford pickup. Flat head six and three on the floor. From time to time I rode with him on his newspaper motor route. One drove, and the other stood in the bed and threw the rolled paper. Usually the big “Sunday” edition.
At about that time “modified stock” racing was taking hold.
The local promoter promulgated rules to move up from more or less stock “jalopy” class to a bit more. Other “better” engines allowed, but in the same brand. One odd Chevrolet mid 30s coupe repowered by a later Pontiac straight 8. Sounded fierce, but not that fast. Cross town somewhat rival acquaintance, Bob, had a ride in a Union 76 local distributor sponsored 34 Ford tudor. A mere shell of the original, and sporting a flat head 6 Ford It was a winner. The car had the torque, the balance and Bob knew the fast way home.
Much later. I swapped my 55 Olds 98 hard top coupe for a very nice 51 Ford pickup. Flat head six and granny four speed. Plus small home built “tear drop” trailer. Sold. an overall profitable “flip”. Both ways. The older couple needed a highway car to go back "east’. The 98 did that better than the F1!!
Carl
Hi Carl.
Those old 270 Gimmys could be bored to become a 302 and was very much the equal of a 296 Mercury flathead. Besides you and I I’d be curious how many on this forum know what a granny four speed gearbox is.
Bob
889076
plymouth, Mi.
Bob;
Thanks. I was going out and finish my Honda powered lawn mower spring revival. But, the weather is actually “coolish”.
So, I’m defering a bit and just might take a day off!!!
Right on as to the power of the Jimmy. After WWII, many new units ordnance depot rebuilds were no surplus. Some one decided that dumping them on the market would “injure” commerce. So, they were ‘disabled". A smash with a sledge
on the block to expose innards and they could be sold as "scrap’"
Not so fast. Ingenuity still alive and kicking. Bought. A patch curt and screwed on. Ready to go. One or more powered “modified” racers. Home welded header and dual intake, and they were up to running with the big Mercury’s.
Outstanding torque out of the turns.
On another track, a neophyte got one. Bolted it into a simple chassis. On to the races. Oh, no. Out of a turn an punched it.
Immediate 180!!! Why? I dunno. but I suspect a couple of things. Open differential, too much torque, Driver in over his head.
In anoher. field, a guy by the name of Montgomery, I think, repowered a 41 Graham sedan, GM 270 power did well on the
dry lakes of SOCAL.
Yeah, let’s see if we get any comments on Granny low.
Carl
Another flat head six to mimic the Standard for SS power.
Continental motors produced a version or more. Pre war in Graham Paige, Willys sedans, IHC pickups.
Post war, a version appeared in Kaiser Frazier cars and Willys 4x4 pickups ands station wagons.
Carl
those 270 Jimmys were a tough motor, because they had FULL pressure lubrication!
and in the 50s Wayne made an aluminum cross flow head, that really perked them up!
some made runs at BONNEVILLE blowin away the Ford V8 flatties!
Greetings All,
Heavily modified Continental helicopter engine made and supplied to Tucker Motorcars.
Very interesting design.
Jimmys had a very strong lower end besides the full pressure oiling system although the Chevrolet “dip and dunk” system worked well as long as everything was aligned correctly. Concerning the Wayne Horning head check out “The 12 port story”, pretty interesting! In these days of thin wall casting it’s had to believe that the 270’s could be bored 7/32 and become a 302, talk about thick cylinder walls!
Bob
889076
Plymouth, Mi.
Jimmys had a very strong lower end besides the full pressure oiling system although the Chevrolet “dip and dunk” system worked well as long as everything was aligned correctly. Concerning the Wayne Horning head check out “The 12 port story”, pretty interesting! In these days of thin wall casting it’s had to believe that the 270’s could be bored 7/32 and become a 302, talk about thick cylinder walls!
Bob
889076
Plymouth, Mi.
