Mk5 Overdrive Conversion

In fact the paint on most cars on the road in Britain in the early 1950s was black. Traveling at that time my sister and I would choose a colour of car and at the end of the journey the one who had chosen the most frequent colour would win but black was never permitted.

Peter

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It’s funny how even among this small group we have our various color preferences. Hopefully it won’t lead to arguments. :smile:
Only two Mark Vs left the factory in two-tone, consequently a two-tone will be a deduction in JCNA concours.
I don’t like white cars at all. Almost every car in my town is either white or black. I once saw a Mark V in refrigerator white and I couldn’t stand to look at it.
I tried black on my Mark V and soon came to regret it; it always showed the dirt and I was forever cleaning it. Now I’m going back to the original gunmetal.
Here is an example of the pale blue with dark blue piping in 520264. It was only offered with pastel blue metallic, but this car has been repainted in dark blue.
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Then there are some people that have to be different. This is 628003. I suppose for every color imaginable there is at least one person that likes it.
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This car has since been sold, so maybe it will be restored in something else.

Hi Rob,

Yes, nice photos, maybe I misunderstood you, as Pale Blue was offered for many combinations, typically Birch Grey like my car or Lavender Grey like the car in that B&W photo.

But if you mean blue paint, yes the only blue offered for a MKV was Pastel Blue Metallic. What I have seen of the original paint samples IMO one could describe both Pastel Metallics as ”Silver that shifts to blue in the shade” and ”Silver that shifts to green in the shade.” :slight_smile:

Opinions? I like to stick to facts, opinions change all the time. I don’t like white cars either and yet we’ve had this one for almost nine years. I’m beginning to get used to it. :smiley:

Cheers!

image

Ps. No idea why it ended upside down?

My mistake, it was the other way around; Pastel Blue Metallic paint was only offered with Pale Blue interior.
Pale Blue interior was indeed offered with Ivory, Birch Grey, Lavender Grey, Gunmetal, and Pastel Blue Metallic paint.

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Was there a reason other than post-war austerity? My grandmother was given a choice of colour for her new Austin A40 Devon, Black or Grey. She chose Gunmetal Grey and my grandfather was furious! I’ve no idea why? Perhaps too outlandish? :smile:

Tim

I’m not too knowledgeable with the history of the timeline of development of automotive paints but I believe there was a general problem with the durability of colours other than black. I think cost was another factor along with difficulties in maintaining consistency with pigments. Though colours have been used since day one, black was much preferred for the mass production environment. The buying public always prefers a choice and colours became more common as the associated technology - different than black - was resolved. Henry only offered colours for his T in the last two of its 19 years production due to buyer pressure and the offerings from the competition.

Peter

Yes, most new cars were sent for export to help with our crippling war debt and the general population of cars on the road was pre-war.

Peter

So… because the colour of pre-war cars was Black, in the main, was is just a continuation of the theme? I thought it might have had to do with cost or availability? Jaguar did seem to offer more than just Black. Perhaps 70% Black and the rest a cross-section. Obviously it took time for gentlemen of discernment to add cream to the black for that stylish ‘Two-Tone’ effect! :sunglasses:

Tim

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I think the post war prevalence of black cars was simply because most of the cars on the road were manufactured pre-war when black was common. Most of the new cars post war were not black. There just weren’t many new cars on the roads in Britain in the late 1940s early 1950s.

Peter

Allan Crouch’s SS & Jaguar book gives color choice totals for each pre-war year and IV & V totals.

In 1938 46% were black, 21% gunmetal, 10% suede green, 5% lavender grey, 3% ivory, 8 other colors in smaller numbers.

With Mark IV it was 48% black, 19% gunmetal, 15% suede green, 8% lavender grey, 5% battleship grey, 4.5% birch grey, 1% ivory.

With Mark V it was 38% black, 17% gunmetal, 7% suede green, 10% birch grey, 7% lavender grey, 7% battleship grey, 5% dove grey, 3% pastel green metallic, 3% pastel blue metallic, 2% cream, 0.3% ivory, 0.1% silver.

There were indeed problems with at least some of the pre-'52 colors, with reports of new cars off the boat in Australia having to be repainted, and all the metallics being deleted after '52.
MKVDHC_No_20_90mm MKVDMC_No_21_90mm
Though I think the two-tone rage may have been led by the Americans, take it how you will…

Hi,

Yes, I have the book(s). What’s also worth noting is that Ivory and Cream are the same paint, some call it Old English White. Allan has listed the colours as they were recorded in the build sheets. But the sales brochures called a white MKV ”Ivory” and a white XK120 ”Cream”. Same time, same paint shop, same paint.

Then Ivory went out of fashion and on a MKVII it was also called ”Cream”.

Cheers!

Quite right.

But be careful in what company you say that. There are 120 owners who are quite adamant that they are three different colors. :grin:

Hi,

Sure! I’ve had a few discussions about this during the last 20+ years.

Thanks to my first car I quicky learned the nature of men. From 1961 to 1967 over 95% of all ”dark green” E-types were painted Opalescent Dark Green at the factory. But about 90% of the people who own and want to restore those cars want to believe it was British Racing Green, when in fact it was not.

Almost the same story with Opalescent Silver Grey vs. Opalescent Gunmetal, because to some folks (who can not tell the difference) Gunmetal sounds cool and because ”9600 HP” was Gunmetal. :slight_smile:

Clausager puts it well in the ”Factory Original Jaguar E-type” about the white S3 E-types: Cream, White & Old English White = most probably the same colour.

Why? Because what was written on the build sheet depended on who was on that shift, and what they thought the colour was called at the time.

Anyone who has seen the photos of the Foleshill assembly line and paint shop could not believe they would have suddenly stopped painting, cleaned the guns and supply, change to another tone if white, when after say #670202, an XK120 in ”Cream” they were supposed to spray a MKV Saloon with ”Ivory!”

”Nah, it’s white anyways, innit!” :smiley:

The names of the colours are marketing.

There is more variation in production just by batch, especially when the paint supplier changed, and the whole base material of it.

That is also why all the metallics were left out in late 1951 when production moved to Browns Lane and the new paint shop started using a rotisserie for the bodies and new urethane based paint instead of the old cellulose based Domolac/Zofelac paints.

Metallics were reintroduced in 1961 with the E-type and they were very popular.

Cheers!

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From what I’ve been told the reason for the repaints, restoration of interior wood, new interiors on cars coming to Australia was due to exposure to salt spray and sun due to poorly sealed cargo holds. Additionally the laziness of UK dockside workers was to blame as it was well known that they would frequently leave the windows of the cars down especially on warm days. The problem was so bad that Jaguar had to send new wood and interiors in crates in case the exposure damage was too great. That would account for the photos Rob posted. Ironically it gave the Australian dealers more flexibility in the paint and interior colours on offer to prospective buyers.

Tm

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Hi Wayne,

Have you managed to take any photo’s as yet?

Did you end up with the J-Type or A-Type overdrive?

Would you mind telling me the name of the company who gave you the information please? I wouldn’t mind contacting them.

All the best,

Tim

I still haven’t reinstalled the engine/tranny in the MK V. The striping of the car has taken longer then I’d hoped. The rocker panels had a bunch of rot as well as the inner rear fender wells and transom where the bumper brackets go through. I’ve finally finished that work but keep getting side tracked working on my 1930 Garwood 28’ triple cockpit speedboat. I’m replacing the topsides and bottom as well as the lower half of each frame. Bopping back and forth from mahogany to steel keeps my head spinning! I’m also in the process of rebuilding the 2.5L Jaguar engine but I have the Volvo tranny with Laycock overdrive adapted to the Jaguar bell housing ready for when I finish painting the body. Add to that finishing my 1931 Lasalle ccp and it seems I need to clone myself at least a couple of times!
I’ll keep you posted once the engine is ready to go back in.

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Fair enough Wayne & Clone! :grin:

Do you have the name of the Overdrive Company you contacted?

Tim

Quantum Mechanics in Oxford, CT 203-463-8299

Thanks Wayne. :blush:

I sent them a message several weeks ago but received no reply, sadly. Is that typical?

Tim

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