Hello Friends,
What differences, if any, are there between the locking door handle on a right hand drive MKIV DHC and Saloon? They are listed as different part numbers.
Cheers,
Tim
Hi Tim,
I donāt think there is a different part number. It looks as if the DHC has locking handles on both sides whereas the saloon only has a driverās door lock.
Peter
Hi Peter,
Two are required for the DHC, Part Number BD.7 (R.14084/H), while one of these for the OS and another BD.8 (R.14084/J) for the NS are required for the Saloon. Barretts list them as different part numbers on their website as well.
I am left wondering what the difference is between between the two part numbers?
Cheers,
Tim
Is there a left and right handle because of a twist in the square shaft, left and right?
I know that is the case with XK120 FHC/DHC, both sides have a key barrel, but the shaft has a left or right twist, because the shut face is slightly angled and the handle is 90 degree horizontal.
You sometimes see professionally restored FHC/DHCs with droopy handles because they put them on the wrong sides.
Hi Rob,
Thanks for the reply. If I understand you correctly then the difference is in the square shaft not the handle itself? It might then be possible to use the square shaft from my original handle and fit it to the remanufactured handle? My original is badly pitted because of the poor quality of the original āmuck-metalā used. The remanufactured handles are cast brass I believe, and therefore a much better quality.
Cheers,
Tim
I donāt think you would be able to swap shafts. If you have oxy acetylene you might be able to heat the shaft and twist it but I wouldnāt try it without such a concentrated heat source.
Peter
Hi Peter and Rob,
It must be possible to swap the shafts, looking at the new offering from a supplier in the UK.
How is the square shaft held in place in the handle? Is it with a grub screw, a pin or by the lock barrel? I wonāt have access to my original handle until tomorrow (Monday) to look and answer my own question.
Iām also interested to know how the lock locks the handle?
Cheers,
Tim
Apologies Peter, You are correct about their being only the one Part Number for the Locking Handle. I misread the Parts Catalogue - too much going on at the moment inside the old head. Rob must be right about the ātwistā in the square shaft and thatās why Barrettās have the NS and OS as different part numbers? Although the OS, while listed, isnāt available.
Cheers,
Tim
Letās not jump the gun. I was merely offering a guess as to why there might be left and right handles. I donāt know for certain, and looking at my SS today I canāt see in there to say if there is or is not a twist on the front door handles.
There certainly is on XK120 FHC; here it is.
Coincidentally, I took off my RR door handle R.14084/C (BD.10) today as a step for removing the chrome moulding to measure it for a winter project, making a 1714/G the LR chrome moulding.
There is no twist on this one, so it is not obvious to me why there would be left and right part numbers on these rear door handles.
My LF handle does not have a key barrel, so thatās obviously why there are left and right on the front door handles. But the LF looks just like the two rears, so I just donāt know why there are 3 part numbers.
I think the square shaft must be pressed in or moulded into the handle. I donāt see anything promising in being able to get them out and back in successfully.
Hi Rob,
What about the square shaft on the locking handle? How is that held in place - pressed, pinned or grub screwed to the lock?
Tim
Hi Tim,
I did have some MkIV handles but I donāt have them now. I have just looked at my old SS locking boot handle and I canāt see any sign of a pin. There certainly isnāt any grub screw. My impression is that the handle was actually moulded around the shaft. There is only about 3/4" of handle before you come to the square lock bolt so the handle shaft doesnāt penetrate far into the locking handles. As far as I can recall the lock bolt engages with a hole in the waist line moulding.
Not very relevant but the chrome strip on my SS was missing when I bought the car so I made one from 1/4" brass strip and brazed a brass plumbing fitting where the handle passes through and put a hole in the side of that for the lock bolt. The SS has simpler chrome strips than the MkIV.
See: http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk/New%20page%2016.htm
Peter
I have not taken out the locking handle on the SS.
Here is a locking handle from an XK120 FHC which I think probably is the same basic operating design as SS, Mark IV and DHC Mark V.
The large square shaft was held in with a round pin.
The tumbler barrel was held in with another round pin.
The small square peg slides inside a square hole through the handle body, which is located between the two round pin holes.
On the end of the tumbler there was an eccentric round nub, which is worn off on this example, but it would have fit in that notch in the small square peg. There is a little bit of the nub left, almost undetectable in this picture.
When the tumbler barrel is turned, the nub moves the small square peg in and out of the side of the handle body, and when moved out it engages a square notch in the outer oval chrome piece, thus it is locked.
Hi Rob,
Thank you very much for the most helpful information and the photo, I really appreciate it.
I had a chance to look at my locking driverās door handle today and can see how the locking mechanism works and is held in place by the various pins.
What became apparent, following a few conversations Iāve had with various owners, was that once the mechanism becomes worn, through use, it is quite common for the square shaft to become twisted. That is quite understandable when you think how many times the door is opened, often with too much force. You can see that in your photo of the disassembled handle. In short, they were square and true when made and not twisted from new. Perhaps thatās why Jaguar went to a push button mechanism in the MKV and subsequent saloons?
One more piece of the puzzle in place. I really need to right this stuff down for the sake of others in years to come.
Cheers,
Tim
Here are some photos from my bits and pieces bins for the Mk IV. The side view shows the similarities between the two handles. The square shanks are cast into the handle, and the locking handle has an extension on the base to accept the locking barrel mechanism. As noted in the previous posts, there is an eccentric peg on the end of the barrel that slides the notched square locking pin left and right. On the Mk IV, this pin engages in the slot of the brass chromed waist trim.
Note also the special set screw in the end of the shank. These screws are often missing and replaced with a conventional screw. The correct screws have a tapered shank in the unthreaded section under the head, which is quite thin. The reasons for these features are that the taper spreads the split end to tighten the shank into the door lock, and the head is thin so as to not foul on the door panels.
Handles are part of the waist trim as an assembly, being connected by a set comprising a spring, a cap, and a split pin. Many cars are missing this important set, and the handle can be rattled back and forth in the trim.
I hope this helps by adding a bit more detail particular to the Mk IV
Hello Peter,
Thank you very much for this helpful information. I was able to look at my door handles today and am pleased to report that I have all the parts you mention including the special set screw, as well as springs, caps and split pins.
Cheers,
Tim
Iām notablylazy. We had to do several sets of SS side strips over the years. I just bought 6mm brass strip and had the shape and 45 deg chamfer each side NC Milled
Likewise a T slot in the back , similar to mkIV for captive screws/ plates to slide along in
Extruded stock is better for plating than castings and NCmilling easier on the arms , and very accurate
1 Like
They look nice.
Peter
Thatās basically what Iāll be doing, cutting one out of 1/4" x 2" brass flat stock to make the LR.
I want to make it clear that on XK120 FHC the square shafts are twisted intentionally from new, not due to overstress. Thatās why there are lefts and rights. I think that might be true on Mark V DHC as well.
Interesting that Peter has a short piece of door trim on his locking handle. Mine is just one long piece, so I would have to pull it all off.
I also discovered when putting the RR trim back on that, though there are 5 screw holes on the door and the Mazak moulding piece, there are only 4 access holes in the inner panel of the door. I canāt get a screw in the front most hole by the handle because the latch mechanism is there.
Hi Rob,
Perhaps Iām not understanding correctly but canāt you access the front hole after removing the lock mechanism?
Peter
Hmm, wish Iād thought to take a picture of it. This is the right rear door. The foremost screw in the moulding is about 1" to the rear of the handle with the square shaft. The handle has to be installed on the chrome moulding strip before they are installed together on the door. The inner latching mechanism has to be installed first because the square shaft goes through it. Then you bring in the moulding and handle, and find the inner latch mechanism blocks access to that foremost screw.
Then you put on the special set screw mentioned by Peter Lloyd. Mine also had a tapered external star lock washer there.
Unless Iām missing something here.
Iāll be taking apart the left rear door when I have the new chrome moulding ready.