[modern] more English than before

Disused Categories Modern
1

Well, I finally decided after a long trip that it was time to lose the Jeep.
Although a fine car for what it is, it was mutually decided that it was time
to acquire something safer for the kids and the dog, especially after the
accident that occurred two weeks ago with my Jaguar and the senseless lady
with the Ford Expedition.

We traded in the 96 Jeep and purchased a 95 Land Rover Discovery today with
29k in absolutely perfect condition. It has virtually every option including
the full wood dash and doors. The wood is important as this way I can feel
kind of like I am in the Jaguar when I have to drive it.

I have watched Jeeps fold beautifully in minor accidents and just felt that
there was too much plastic built into the car for my comfort.

So, wish me luck because now we have two English, one French and one German
car, (I just can’t sell the Benz as it simply runs too well).

A great weekend to all,
@Spothound1
89VdP/38k
and various others

2

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the information as I know that I will probably be using it rather
frequently!

What I really wanted was either the last of the County LWB cars or a Defender
110 however, this was a rather quick decision for us. Of the LWB cars that I
looked at, none were acceptable with regard to condition except for one in
black with butterscotch interior. The dealer would not budge from 27k. I
felt that that was a bit high, and he was not willing to give me enough for
the Jeep. It was perfect and the dealer knew it. Interestingly enough, I
was quite happy to learn that the Jeep is worth 17k at the retail level, but
I have no interest in selling it privately due to the tax consideration. I do
not want to pay tax on the entire amount again.

Of the few Defender 110’s available, I found a 93 for $55,000 and I got
talked out of that very quickly by my wife, as it is for her. This car was
absolutely perfect but a real rough car for her to handle the streets of New
York in. You have to really drive it. And really, it is a bit much for
around here. She felt that for that kind of money, we should perhaps keep
our Jeep and buy a new Mercedes to replace our wonderful 300D. It was all
getting out of hand.

We only use the SUV’s for fun with the kids and the dog, and we both agreed
that it would be silly to spend that kind of money for a car that would be
driven around here. I must tell you however that it is one hell of an
automobile and I am still dreaming about it.

So, the compromise was to get a slightly used and totally loaded Discovery
with low mileage. The dealer was quite flexible with regard to adjusting the
trade in value with the sale of the Discovery and built the entire deal into
a six thousand dollar venture and the hand over of the Jeep. I felt that it
was quite fair with the tax included in the deal, and everybody did just fine
as everyone is entitled to make money for their work.

With my luck, the only reason why the mileage is so low is that it probably
lived most of its days in the shop!

It is amazing with regard to the attitude of my wife. I am on my fourth
Jaguar and as beautiful as she thinks they are, she hates them and has made
her feelings known to me since 1979. Labor intensive you know.

Now all of a sudden I have become the UK genius and has deemed me competent
to fix anything!

She is happy, and that is all that I care about as I prepare to get my hands
really dirty now.

By the way, your Rovers sound like very interesting and wonderful vehicles.
I would love to know how you acquired them and how they are doing.

In any event, thank you very much for all of the great info and I will speak
to you soon.

Best regards,
Chris Terris
@Spothound1
89VdP/28k
and no driveway that I can see anymore.

3

I have watched Jeeps fold beautifully in minor accidents and just felt
that
there was too much plastic built into the car for my comfort.

Really? I’m a little astonished because my father’s 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee
has been in 2 accidents. The first was rear ending a MB 190E at 35 mph. The
MBs trunk folded up into the rear seat pretty thoroughly, the car was
obviously totalled. My dad’s Grand Cherokee, a new bumper cover, 2 driving
lights and grill.
The second the Jeep was rear ended itself by a Chevy minivan doing 40. The
Chevy Venture’s front was flush with bottom edge of the windshield and the
engine was sitting on the ground. Again, the Jeep, a new rear bumper cover,
a minor realignment of the rear frame rails and the dented in tailgate was
popped back out and repainted.
It seems like a pretty safe car from his experience.

Rob Mc.----- Original Message -----
From: Spothound1@aol.com
To: modern@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Friday, 27 August, 1999 16:40 PM
Subject: [modern] more English than before

4

Hi Rob,

I bet that Mercedes did crunch right in! I think that any passenger
automobile would. However, I also bet that the occupants in the Benz were
safe by virtue of the design structure of the car, much in the same way that
anyone would be in our beloved cats.

Actually, not one of the cars that you mentioned had a chance. The Jeep,
just like all SUV’s have a bumper that is seven inches higher than that of
any passenger car, (with the exception of the Mercedes ML series as they sit
at twenty inches).

When considering SUV accidents in our house, we thought more of truck to
truck impact as opposed to truck to vehicle incidents. This type of vehicle
has multiplied like a rabbit where I live and frankly, I do not even care for
them. I would much rather have a nice E 320 four-matic wagon, but I feel
that even they are a bit overdone when you consider what they are for. I
only own this type of vehicle because I will not allow my dog, or food, or
kids shoes on the leather in my Jaguar, or any of my other cars.

An SUV is the family car to mess up, get the bugs on, go hiking with and so
on. I just feel that there are some safer and more luxurious SUV’s that we
could be driving, hence the purchase of the Land Rover.

It is clearly a better vehicle than the Jeep as it should be. It is more
sophisticated in its overall design.

I do enjoy the Jeep in many aspects, and in some I feel that it is an
over-torqued taxicab. The Land Rover has better on and off road manners and
feels more “balanced” than the Jeep.

If I have to drive one of these gorillas every once and a while, I would just
rather do it in something that feels and smells more like my Jaguar than my
Jeep does.

I hope no Jeep owners are offended by this, as it is just what we decided to
do. Our Jeep was wonderful to us and never gave us a moments trouble and it
was a terrific off roader, it is just time to move on.

@Spothound1
89VdP/38k
and others

5

I made a typo. VdP has 38k.

6

Johathan,

You were close, but it is a light blue metallic with navy 82 with 276k that
runs and looks like it has about 50. It is my sixth and like Jaguars, have a
personality of their own. I have had everything from a 250 SL to a 4.5 SEL
and a 6.3 and each was a wonderful experience to own and drive. The “turtle”
300D however is just impossible to give up. Other than not being a rocket it
does everything just beautifully.

At this point in its life it gets little use, maybe 3k per year and it just
sits there and always looks pretty, and ready for use. It has paid for
itself many times over.

With regard to the four matic. That was the hands down choice for the entire
family but we wanted one that was a bit newer and those cars simply did not
exist. There is no doubt in my mind that it would have been the car had
those “missing years” not been the case.

Rest assured that yours will run for many years to come and it will give you
constant pleasure. They in my opinion do nothing wrong.

Thank you
Chris Terris
@Spothound1
89VdP/38k
and others

7

Just make sure that all correspondence correctly references the Jeep Cherokee
vs the Jeep Grand Cherokee. They are considerably different vehicles. The JC
is a 1981 design that went into production in 1984, has solid front and rear
axles, is shaped like a box, and has had one minor update just a year or two
ago. The JGC is an entirely different, more sophisticated and larger
platform, funded by Chrysler’s money after they bought AMC circa 1988, and is
considered a Jeep, not a Chrysler.

So, Jeeps remain Jeeps even though rescued by Chrysler in the 1980’s by buying
a dying company, AMC. The same Chrysler that is now DaimlerChrysler, a
German-American company, and the resulting products are MB’s, Chryslers and
Jeeps.

Given the above, can someone explain the logic of S-Types being Fords? Or, is
that the product of narrow minded thinking by some erstwhile members of this
group.

Flamecoat on!

Pat Lamey

Spothound1@aol.com wrote:

Hi Rob,

I bet that Mercedes did crunch right in! I think that any passenger
automobile would. However, I also bet that the occupants in the Benz were
safe by virtue of the design structure of the car, much in the same way
that
anyone would be in our beloved cats.

Actually, not one of the cars that you mentioned had a chance. The Jeep,
just like all SUV’s have a bumper that is seven inches higher than that of
any passenger car, (with the exception of the Mercedes ML series as they
sit
at twenty inches).

When considering SUV accidents in our house, we thought more of truck to
truck impact as opposed to truck to vehicle incidents. This type of
vehicle
has multiplied like a rabbit where I live and frankly, I do not even care
for
them. I would much rather have a nice E 320 four-matic wagon, but I feel
that even they are a bit overdone when you consider what they are for. I
only own this type of vehicle because I will not allow my dog, or food, or
kids shoes on the leather in my Jaguar, or any of my other cars.

An SUV is the family car to mess up, get the bugs on, go hiking with and so
on. I just feel that there are some safer and more luxurious SUV’s that we
could be driving, hence the purchase of the Land Rover.

It is clearly a better vehicle than the Jeep as it should be. It is more
sophisticated in its overall design.

I do enjoy the Jeep in many aspects, and in some I feel that it is an
over-torqued taxicab. The Land Rover has better on and off road manners
and
feels more “balanced” than the Jeep.

If I have to drive one of these gorillas every once and a while, I would
just
rather do it in something that feels and smells more like my Jaguar than my
Jeep does.

I hope no Jeep owners are offended by this, as it is just what we decided
to
do. Our Jeep was wonderful to us and never gave us a moments trouble and
it
was a terrific off roader, it is just time to move on.

Spothound1@aol.com
89VdP/38k
and others____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1

8

Chris, congrats on your new Rover. You now have a stable of the finest cars
made, Merc included. I’ve had german cars since 1973. An Audi first, BMW next
and then back to Audi 4 more times. Preasently a 1996 Audi A6Q. Never a Merc,
not that I wouldn’t like one, just can’t afford them,LOL. I agree with you on
the crumple factor of German cars. The damage done in an accident has no
bearing to the saftey of the passengers. I got hit with my 73 Audi from the
rear, daughter in front passenger seat. I was stopped at a light and a
Pontiac(big cars back then) hit me at about 40 mph and put the whole back end
of the car flat up to the rear window. Niether of us got hurt and the doors
opened perfectly. The car absorbed the shock and never distorted from the
crumple zone forward. The body shop cut the rear off just after the rear
doors and welded on a new rear clip. Drove that car another 5 years with no
problems(execpt mechanical as they where actually junks). A stiff heavy
framed car would have caused injuries I’m sure. Sorry to be so long winded.
Good luck with your new purchase.
Jim Moore(88 XJ40)
PS Unlike the Jag, the only problem with German cars is you never get
intimate with them. They just start and run whenever you need them.

9

I’m sure, had my father read your reply, he would not feel offended and
agree with much you said. He actually considered the Discovery for a bit but
it would have used up too much of his retirement buyout. The Grand Cherokee
is also bigger inside than the Discovery and the Jeep dealer is only 15
minutes away from him. The Land Rover dealer is an hour’s drive and not
convenient to any public transportation.
Personally, if I was inclined to buy an SUV, I would opt for a used Land
Rover Discovery myself. I’ve driven a Range Rover and find them too ungainly
for my taste. Plus, in the press and according to mechanics I deal with, the
Range Rover seems to still suffer from many of the bug-a-boos identified
with older British cars.

Rob Mc.----- Original Message -----
From: Spothound1@aol.com
To: <@Rob_Mc>
Cc: modern@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Friday, 27 August, 1999 21:43 PM
Subject: Re: [modern] more English than before

Hi Rob,

I bet that Mercedes did crunch right in! I think that any passenger
automobile would. However, I also bet that the occupants in the Benz were
safe by virtue of the design structure of the car, much in the same way
that
anyone would be in our beloved cats.

Actually, not one of the cars that you mentioned had a chance. The Jeep,
just like all SUV’s have a bumper that is seven inches higher than that of
any passenger car, (with the exception of the Mercedes ML series as they
sit
at twenty inches).

When considering SUV accidents in our house, we thought more of truck to
truck impact as opposed to truck to vehicle incidents. This type of
vehicle
has multiplied like a rabbit where I live and frankly, I do not even care
for
them. I would much rather have a nice E 320 four-matic wagon, but I feel
that even they are a bit overdone when you consider what they are for. I
only own this type of vehicle because I will not allow my dog, or food, or
kids shoes on the leather in my Jaguar, or any of my other cars.

An SUV is the family car to mess up, get the bugs on, go hiking with and
so
on. I just feel that there are some safer and more luxurious SUV’s that
we
could be driving, hence the purchase of the Land Rover.

It is clearly a better vehicle than the Jeep as it should be. It is more
sophisticated in its overall design.

I do enjoy the Jeep in many aspects, and in some I feel that it is an
over-torqued taxicab. The Land Rover has better on and off road manners
and
feels more “balanced” than the Jeep.

If I have to drive one of these gorillas every once and a while, I would
just
rather do it in something that feels and smells more like my Jaguar than
my
Jeep does.

I hope no Jeep owners are offended by this, as it is just what we decided
to
do. Our Jeep was wonderful to us and never gave us a moments trouble and
it
was a terrific off roader, it is just time to move on.

Spothound1@aol.com
89VdP/38k
and others

10

Actually, the full lineage of Jeep runs from Willys & Ford (the both built
Jeeps in the 40s) to Studebaker to American Motors to Chrysler to Daimler
Benz. All the while, a Jeep was, and is, still considered a Jeep.

Rob Mc.----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Lamey patlamey@usa.net
To: modern@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Saturday, 28 August, 1999 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: [modern] more English than before

Just make sure that all correspondence correctly references the Jeep
Cherokee
vs the Jeep Grand Cherokee. They are considerably different vehicles.
The JC
is a 1981 design that went into production in 1984, has solid front and
rear
axles, is shaped like a box, and has had one minor update just a year or
two
ago. The JGC is an entirely different, more sophisticated and larger
platform, funded by Chrysler’s money after they bought AMC circa 1988, and
is
considered a Jeep, not a Chrysler.

So, Jeeps remain Jeeps even though rescued by Chrysler in the 1980’s by
buying
a dying company, AMC. The same Chrysler that is now DaimlerChrysler, a
German-American company, and the resulting products are MB’s, Chryslers
and
Jeeps.

Given the above, can someone explain the logic of S-Types being Fords? Or,
is
that the product of narrow minded thinking by some erstwhile members of
this
group.

Flamecoat on!

Pat Lamey