New (not re-manufactured) starter

XJ
1

Hi - I just had to replace the starter in one of my S1’s, and the Remy brand remanufactured replacement starter I got truly sucks. Personally I HATE reman alternators and starters and only ever install them if there is no other option. These days the only option is reman or $200 gear reduction… or so I thought.

I just found this one ebay and the seller says it is 100% brand new.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/372655828149?ul_noapp=true

Has anyone here tried this thing? I’m sure it’s made in china but everything like this is nowadays - I’ve had good luck with new, chinese made alternators so thinking about giving it a try.

~Mike

2

Mike,

if you appreciate original looks and the performance of Lucas 3M100 parts - they are still around, admittedly a bit more expensive, but then again, far from moon prices at approx. 300 EUR https://www.limora.com/de/englische-marken/jaguar/jaguar-xj6-serie-i-iii-und-daimler-sovereign-serie-i-iii-1968-1987/elektrik-zuendanlage-heizung-klimaanlage-und-armaturenbrett/anlasser-4-2-serie-i-ab-mai-1972-und-alle-4-2-3-4-serie-ii-und-iii-modelle.html, NAYY

Depending on the equipment of your car the exchange of the starter motor may not be something you’d like to exercise one more time just to try that cheapo starter that may or may not work.

BTW, I installed a very cheap alternator one year ago - functioning perfectly so far (touching wood). So, who knows …

Jochen

75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)

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Mike, do you not like the gear reduction starters or is it mainly the price?
Folks seem to like them once they get them to fit properly.

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Hi Jochen… Too expensive for me plus shipping from outside the US would be insane I think.

That’s it exactly Bob. I have no problem with the regular Lucas starters just that I can’t get a new one for a decent price… Unless that ebay reproduction one is okay. Granted it’s only about $60 or so more for a gear reduction but 60 bucks is 60 bucks :slight_smile:

I gotta do something cause my ‘brand new’ reman Remy nearly caused me a serious problem. I live on a mountain and I was at the top on a steep road behind some trucks and I accidentally stalled the S1 with the manual gearbox. Embarrassing (foot slipped) but I shoulda just been able to restart. That POS reman starter would barely turn over the engine - heatsoak I’m thinking although it’s weak all the time. Luckily it started but if it didn’t I dunno how I woulda got the car somewhere safe. No shoulder, steep incline etc… BTW battery, alternator, cables all in new condition. Only reason I had to replace the original 47 year old Lucas starter was cause the solenoid was getting a little wonky. Still no problem turning over the engine. I may switch the solenoid on the reman one to my old Lucas and see how that goes.

5

I keep forgetting you live on a mountain, Mike. Certainly not compatible with my cars. I live in the flatlands and when I was younger, the police all knew me and kindly let me work on my car in the road while they watched. They would get a bit itchy after 20 minutes or so and start offering to help me push it off to the side. I had a series of problems which I won’t bore anyone with here, but each one took about five failures before I figured it out and fixed it.

Back in the day many solenoids were sold separately (probably not Jag) and I would often replace one without replacing the starter–so I think you have a good idea. Often, the contact disk is what fails; you might take your old solenoid apart and see if that’s it. Of course the mechanical parts can wear, too.

At my age I think how nice those gear reduction units would be mainly because of their weight. Concerns I didn’t used to have. :slight_smile:

6

VW Bugs, ca.1960 to 1974, would occasionally do the damnedest thing: you could replace EVERYTHING…and the starter would not work.

The cure? Wire in an accessory solenoid, to operate the solenoid ON the starter.

It worked… and I never knew why.

7

Dears, real OT but what mean “one of my xj6” ?

you have 2 ? can i see forum user cars in some section?

Fred

8

I am old school so I strip and rebuild my own: skim the commutator on a lathe, replace the bearings; replace the brushes and perhaps buy a solid state regulator (if an alternator). This way I satisfy myself - had some poor outcomes with so called rebuilds. Still running the original starter in my S1. Paul

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Solenoids. Interesting topics along with Bob’s comment on “starter weight”.

Paul: My “bugs” never had starter issues. Others, using the Delco Remy did have “hot start” crank issues. Not uncommon. I solved it in my Delco Remy cranked IHC Scouit II . I used a solid circuit relay sourced from a Mopar…

The issue seems to be inadequate volts at the solenoid atop the starter.

Some used a Ford style remote solenoid, wired in one way or another. Electricly, the solenoid is just a big relay…

Son and I just did another conversation as to the need for a relay on my Jaguar. My theory, Very 'delicate" ignition switch and small wires. Need more juice at the starter!!

Well my lump is back to a hissy fit. No crank issue, again. Came home from the market on a flat bed. I have a beef with the folks there, actually, the boss. I might have made my last visit there. another tale for another time and perhaps another place. Actually another beef as well. My cell let me down!!

Decades ago, I removed the starter from my IHC and took it apart. Hot crank time. It was just fine inside. But, I noted a contact disc plate that could be reversed to present a fresh face to the volts… Slick, indeed…

And, on one of my present diversions. You Tube.
Two teams competing to restart two junk yard derelicts.
Each late 40’s cars. One a Buick straight OHV eight, the other a flat head Packard straight.

Interestingly, the Packard’s starter was the classic Delco Remy. Relevant? Same architecture as Lucas!!Very crusty and struck. The team took it apart and cleaned it up, Freed, Applied power, passed bench test !! Will it crank the “refreshed” straight 8? Will they beat the Buick team? , Next coming up…

Carl

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Carl, do you recall (as I do) that GM operated the relay directly from the starter switch (button or ignition key) but that Ford had a “starter relay” (as does Jaguar).? The starter relay fires the solenoid, which fires the starter–two cascaded relays.

That’s because solenoid serves a mechanical function as well as serving as a relay. The solenoid is wired so that it’s “pull-in” winding draws current through the starter motor itself–quite a lot of current. Then, when the solenoid is “in”, 12V is delivered directly to the starter, the pull-in winding sees 12V on each side so it it disabled, and a “hold” winding, which draws far less current, continues to keep the solenoid engaged until the manual switch is released.

Trivia: I mention the above as background to the fact that the solenoid can serve not only as a “big relay” but as a buzzer, or clicker. The latter function requires a weak battery. The solenoid is activated, and pulls in. This turns on the starter, which overloads the weak battery, lowering its voltage. The low voltage is no longer able to keep the solenoid pulled in, so it releases. Now the starter is no longer loading the battery, so voltage goes back up and the solenoid can once again pull in, repeating the familiar cycle of click click click. Same way a buzzer or bell works, only they have less mass so they repeat the cycle more rapidly. Bad battery contacts act just like a weak battery, of course.

11

Ford and GM early on used different starters and he means to energize them.

Ford used a remote solenoid. It’s only task was to provide volts to the motor. Connecting the pinion to the fflyweel and withdrawing it was rotational inertia. In essence a large relay. Solenoid energized in very early Fords via a separate button on the dash. Quite reliable and not subject to heat crank issues. AMC used a similar architecture.

GM and my scout energized the solenoid atop the starter from the ignition switch. No relay as does
Jaguar.

Aye, the “rattling” relay does convey a message.

Bum starter. bad connections, dead battery…

Carl…

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12

Ha! Yeah I lived in super-flat, super-wide-roads S Fla for a long time. If I ever had a problem it was not near as precarious as it is now. It’s worse going up the mountain because at least if you’re going down gravity kindly assists.

Yup - When I was a youth I drove alot of Caddys - used to do alot of screwing around with the solenoids and cleaning or rotating the discs to avoid spending 30 bucks on a new starter! Those were the days.

@Wiggles - Interesting… I guess the original starter wire wasn’t supplying the power the starter’s solenoid needed to jump out. Thought about wiring a Ford external solenoid and using the original starter as a work-around but I didn’t want yet another non-Jag thing hanging off the inner fender.

That’s the way to do it @Breen60 ! Just wish I had a lathe - maybe some day. I also have so much other stuff to do on so many other cars I’d kinda like to just put in a starter that works and forget it :slight_smile:

@Cadjag I used to have the heat-soak issues in my GM cars all the time in FL. They made a heat resistant blanket that worked pretty well.

I’m still mulling over my next move. I have a car show coming up and the XJ needs to represent. I missed it last year - the 50th anniversary of the XJ as you know - so gotta get down there this year by hook or by krook. Not many Jags at this show and definitely no XJ’s

Thanks all!
~Mike

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Hi Fred - I have 5 XJ’s but they aren’t all show cars or even running. You can see users cars if they have uploaded the info to their profile pages I think. I haven’t though. Here’s the car in question:

72%20XJ6%20Fog%20Ligths%20SM
72%20XJ6%20Fog%20Ligths%20SM1200×863 354 KB
72%20XJ6%20RS%20Engine%20Compartment
72%20XJ6%20RS%20Engine%20Compartment2000×1500 704 KB

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14

Wow! new wasn’t wonderful like now! :raised_hands:

radiator size and fan aren’t 1s you have increased cooling performance , top!

i have some question but OT , i will ask PM

fred

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15

Well to update, I pulled the re-manufactured Remy brand starter back out, took off the solenoid from that one and installed it on my 47 year old, 75K mile original. Old starter is back in and it turns over like a champ! So much better than the so-called new Remy reman. And just to be thorough, this is not the original flywheel so it’s not cause the old one was used to meshing with it :slight_smile:

This is why I hate re-manufactured starters and alternators. It’s a crap-shoot whether or not you’ll get a good one and they rarely last as long as they should if they are okay to begin with.

Still haven’t gotten any replies from anyone who’s used this new version of the Lucas starter unfortunately. There is a seller on ebay who is a British car shop and he’s selling one but he specializes in MG and Triumph and doesn’t know anything about this new version of the starter either.

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Great news, Mike. At least you got use from the solenoid.

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Thanks Bob. I’m so happy to not have to throw another 200 bucks at the starter. Now I gotta start working on the A/C.

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I have a few ideas there, Mike! Better stay away from me to avoid hearing them. :slight_smile:

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I’d bet we’re thinking along the same lines but that’s for another thread :slight_smile: