As has been said you should use the starter whilst the filter block is off. if you don’t get oil gushing out you have to investigate further. it is not uncommon for the oil pick up pipe to be touch the bottom of the sump. In any event I think the sump needs to come off next.
My Jaguar would sit for over 6 months with out starting the engine , before I restored it , never had a problem with the oil pressure , so not sure it’s a priming issue !
You could try pouring some oil in the block , just make sure you pour it in the right oil way , one goes straight back to the sump !
Here are the oil passages labeled.
You can try priming the pump by pouring some oil down the hole labeled From Oil Pump and see what happens when you crank it. If nothing comes you probably have a failed pump. If it burps or gushes you probably have a blocked pickup tube as Phil suggested.
I don’t see anything wrong with your blanking plate or gaskets.
You can follow the passages in your filter head to see where the oil is supposed to go. It should go in the lower rear area and flow around the outside of the filter element, through the element and on to the outlet to the oil gallery. If the filter is clogged it should go through a bypass valve and on to the oil gallery. There should also be another bypass valve where excess can dump back into the sump.
Gent says he has cranked without filter block attached
I would vote oil pump is not priming
Was the oil filter cannister full of oil?
If I was you, i would inject +2litres of oil into a GALLERY plug…this should “backfill” oil pump,
let it drain down for a day or so, then crank with no filter block
pumping oil into the filter block holes wont help with that condition, (as it was explained to me by someone that knows more than me, altho yr labelled diagram disputes that)
dont want to scare you, but its not impossible that NO oil pump is even fitted!..I have come across several Jag engines with vital parts not installed
Rob is right…forcing oil into the “from oil pump” opening in the block will allow oil to run down to the outlet (pressure) side of the pump…but this transfer tube is basically parallel to the ground as mounted to the engine so patience is in order here as it will take a while. I doubt this will work anyway UNLESS the pump is bone-dry to start with. But, I’d say it’s certainly worth a try because there may be just enough clearance within the pump to allow oil to migrate into and thru it…possibly priming it.
Thank you Lee.
Bruce, thinking about it some more, you would probably need half a quart of oil in the From Oil Pump hole to fill that transfer tube, then gravity might help it to flow backwards through the pump, but you could also turn the crank backwards a few times with a socket wrench on the damper bolt, or push the car backwards with the trans in a forward gear, unless you have an automatic.
But you said at the beginning of this thread that you had installed the cover plate on the bottom of the sump. Is there any chance this cover plate is blocking the end of the suction pipe?
I see there is supposed to be a hood on the end of the suction pipe. What does that do? Pardon my ignorance but my 120 does not have this type of pickup.
The gallery connects to the center main bearing hole and those six brass plugs which are just drillings through to the seven main bearings. Oil goes in those and from there through drillings in the crank to the con rod bearings. All important of course but none of that connects to the pump.
Since it appears the 2.4L sump is MUCH smaller…6 quarts vs. ~14 quarts for the 3.4L…I have to assume the oil pick-up tube and sump are quite different between the two engine sizes. (Doesn’t make much sense to me since the engines are the same width and length, but this is what we have been told.) Maybe the 2.4L pan has a shallow and a deep end?..much like the typical American V-8? Sure hope somebody did not forget to install the short oil pump drive coupling between the bottom end of the dizzy drive shaft and the oil pump.
My workshop manual says 13 pints of oil
I just did a oil change on my 3.4 MK2 , 13 pints , it was at the height limit on the dip stick , wanted to check to see if the dipstick was right , it was spot on !
I have a 3.8 MK10 Engine , and a 240 Engine , the sumps are the same !
Far as I know they all hold 13 pints English pints that is 6.5 quarts us
Looks like the later engines have a much shallower sump that the early ones…my 140’s is about 9" deep…maybe jag did away with the extensive baffling used on the early sumps? This would allow for a shallower sump. Either way, the 2.4L’s oil pump pick-up must be quite different than the set-up on my 140…or Rob’s 120, though the oil pump does feed the filter housing in the same manner.
Only one sump is shown in the 2.4 Mark 1 parts catalogue, but there were three, the initial aluminum one and two steel sumps. The two steel sumps had an external dump hose coming from the filter head. If the pump is putting out more oil than can be squeezed through the bearings, the excess will dump out this hose back to the sump. I don’t quite see the logic of this hose as they already had a dump hole in the block.
Only one oil pump system is listed.
I was wondering about item B24 the “Hood” on the bottom end of the suction tube, what does that thing do? Does it fit into some hole in a baffle plate? Could the suction tube simply be too high, out of position, not picking up the oil? Remember Bruce said there was a claim that the engine had been rebuilt by the dreaded “reputable shop”, (DRS?).
There is a similar arrangement on my 140…the “hood” is there to prevent oil from being drawn into the oil pump pick-up tube without the oil first flowing thru the oil strainer, which is attached to the full-length sump baffle on the 140. The hood seals against the strainer, thereby allowing only the oil which has migrated down thru the strainer to reach the end of the pick-up tube. Not having the parts pictured in hand, I can’t really tell how this particular system works exactly, but it looks to be of the same principle as used on the 140.
Don’t want to confuse things ,but my 3.4 engine has the steel sump , that holds 13 pints , like the alloy one !
Jaguar did a lot of changes to the oil filter system on the XK engines life , ending up with just 2 open holes in the block , far as I know the pump and pick up system stayed about the same
Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I checked some photos of my oil pick-up tube to see if it might be touching the circular plate. It is 1/2" - 3/4” above the circular plate.
I primed the oil pump at the hole in the block with 20W50, primed the oil gallery hole and removed a gallery plug to add some more oil.
When I cranked the engine for 25-30 seconds I got a flow of oil out of the oil pump hole. Flow stopped when solenoid button was released. I did this about 5 times and had a flow of oil each time.
I then reinstalled the housing, filter and pressure gauge. I read that I should load the canister with oil but, that is impossible. I also read I could fill the canister by pumping oil into the oil pressure gauge fitting on the housing – not sure about that.
I cranked the engine 4 more times - 25 seconds each time. I did not see any oil flow at the cams. The OP gauge has not registered anything.
I’m going to crank the engine again after the battery is charged.
I have an extra oil line with the 3 banjo bolts that will attach to the back of the block. Should I sacrifice it for priming or, continue to use the starter to crank the engine?
My understanding, from research on J-L, the oil flow is:
1 Pickup in the sump
2 oil pump
3 filter housing
4 oil filter
5 filter housing
6a block:
- through oil galleries to the crank through the main bearing, then the crank feeds the big ends.
- through oil gallery to the cam feed outlet
Or,
6b pressure relief valve to the sump
Assuming the above is correct, would any oil get to the cams if the pressure relief valve is stuck open?
Do the photos above offer any indication of the position of the relief valve? Thanks
looks like you are on the right track
I primed thru the OP gauge hole to fill the filter cannister.
the relief valve is in the filter block itself, and easy to remove and check
fwiw, I am pretty doubtful that you will see cam oil FLOW by just cranking alone
I cracked a camfeed banjo bolt slightly, and oil seeped out, at that point I was confident to start motor, and it took a few seconds to see oil actually flowing under camcovers
I cannot recommend a digital gauge strongly enough, as it WILL show instantaneous, but low pressure in gallery, (4-8psi on cranking) a mechanical gauge will not do this. $40
Yes, good to hear that you are getting something out of the From Oil Pump hole.
Your description of the oil flow appears to be correct.
I don’t think you need to be concerned about getting oil up to the cams as long as the pump is working right.
If you are really worried about it, there is another way.
You don’t need to sacrifice a banjo assembly, just remove it.
Then get a 3/8-16 UNC bolt, drill a hole down the center, cut off the head, and screw it into the banjo bolt hole. An Allen socket head would be even better, then you would not have to cut off the head.
Get a small hose that will fit over the headless bolt or the Allen head, and a squeeze bottle, and squirt some oil into the back of the head through each banjo bolt hole.
Here is the filter head.
The bypass relief valve is part 18, held in by part 17, which can be removed with a pair of snap ring pliers.
Thinking about it, your symptoms of not seeing oil up to the cams could be caused by this bypass valve not seating right.
Normally cranking won’t get oil up to cams.
That’s why you always fill the tappet chest with oil up to about 1/8" min of edge of cam cover face when reassembling ,and fill the cam drilling with oil via an oil can. This gives sufficient initial lubrication until oil pressure is attained.crank it for at least one minute,
then wait to allow starter to cool. Then repeat normally 2 or 3 goes is enough.
Just before you see oil pressure show on gauge, you should hear a slight drop in the cranking speed as the oil pump is achieving its aim if creating oil pressure.
If sufficient oil is present at rebuild a few seconds running will do no harm and will confirm that you have a major problem!
Some engines need a little more revs to "kick " the pump into life than pure cranking can provide Any pump will prefer to pump air, rather than fluids that’s why pump priming is VERY important on assembly.
Thanks Rob. What is the correct set-up for this pressure relief valve? Below are two photos of a oil filter housing I found in a parts box. It is the first type. I don’t know if the sleeve above the spring on my installed housing should be flush like the one in the 2nd photo and, the 1st photo shows an uncompressed spring. My installed housing appears to have a compressed spring.
Spring is not compressed.
.
Relief valve seat is flush with housing
I assume they both work the same and should look the same.
My engine was supposed to have been rebuilt by a pro but, there were no fluids in it when I got the car. The total cranking time after I added oil is probably 10 minutes - in 25 - 30 second bursts over the past 9 days. I assume I can continue to add oil via the gallery and cam banjo bolts to buy more time.