My personal issue is…the jellybean, generic Hyundai I have as a DD, drives WAY better than Tweety or my Rover, which in and of itself, was more pleasant to drive than Tweety. There is also the fact of much less cost/mile to maintain.
On top of that, I cannot, in good conscience, drive as much as I do (>25k/annum) in a car that spews so much pollution as do the Jag and the Rover.
I like old cars, but that appreciation doesn’t blind me to their failings. They are, and will remain so, toys.
Right. In order to change the battery on a BMW, the car has to be forced to “recognise” the battery. This requires hooking up to the dealer computer. Well if the car is so smart to recognise a battery, why isn’t it smart enough to recognise it when you put it in?
It is, but then the stealer couldnt make more ADP.
Precisely my bit*h with current automobiles.
Well, were money no object…I would STILL drive a Hyundai, over a Bimmer or s MERC, two marques with some of THE WORST service records, going.
Have to agree Wiggy. There came a time about 10 yrs ago in which I would take out the E on a hot summer day, come back and take out the DD to do an errand and it blew cool air on me, played soft music and it made me wonder why was I driving the E in the first place. Well we all know that we love them BUT, there was a day when they were as safe, as efficient/clean and better than most of its peers at most everything, not to mention the beauty. That time has pretty much gone. As much as I appreciate old cars, much more than new ones, they are no longer logical (IMHO) for any reason other than we love them.
pauls
That particular item makes me as angry as #^&@#&^&*!!! Its a glass mat battery EXPENSIVE and apparently very touchy about overcharging and rate of charge etc. Its capacity and age need to be considered in its charging characteristics, thus the stealer has to tell the computer abut a new battery change, grrrrr. My car used to sit in the garage for the winter with a float charger on it. Upon start up in the spring it would display that the battery was dangerously discharged! NO, it wasn’t!! But the nanny computer said the car hadn’t been driven enough so of course it must be discharged… After shutting down and restart all was good again but the story is apparently the computer isn’t really checking the battery but looking at some kind of age + drive/charge time map to determine to set its charging characteristics. And the computer only charges the battery to 80% of capacity on a perfect day. I’d love to throw that system out!
pauls
The Germans are no doubt way ahead on the idea of making things as complicated as possible. But I see two simultaneous trends in product design as being responsible for elimination of DIY (do it yourself) in virtually all products.
One trend started many decades ago: special tools. If something state-of-the art was being designed–say the moon mission–engineers would optimize each component and if necessary design a tool to install it. Aircraft and car manufacturers have sparingly used special tools–like the Churchill tools–for decades. But obviously this strategy has ballooned in recent years. Some of the tool used by the Germans seem to be just for spite, like the “triple-square” fasteners that require one to buy matching wrenches. But some, like those for battery recognition, are confined to dealers. [The computer directs the alternator to charge the battery differently, depending on its age, so it needs to reset a timer with each replacement. I think the German automotive engineers are allowed to frolic in their creativity, and management will mass produce whatever they come up with–sorta like artwork produced by artists.]
The second trend is related–making more and more of the product proprietary. Car ownership is now similar to leasing. Apple products, and now Microsoft Windows, are other examples. Even appliances can’t be worked on without access to the manufacturer in some cases. More and more products fall under a model where ownership is either virtually or literally retained by the manufacturer. Software seems to be leading this transition. You lease it rather than buy it. That allows for updates beyond the control of the user, and of course no pirating since there’s no one to pirate from.
I don’t think either of these trends are nefarious, except that they comprise a business model that is intended to be profitable. State-of-the art products require special tools, plus control of the repair/maintenance/updating process.
I’ve had a car that might be considered old (a 1974 Triumph Dolomite Sprint) and one that might be considered modern (a 2004 Renault Megane RS). Each were in their time hot versions of ‘cooking cars’, compact four seat family cars, with tuned or uprated 2 litre four pot engines. When the Dolomite Sprint was first made the factory, British Leyland, put the first half dozen engines on the dyno to check production against design. Power ranged from 127 bhp to 140 bhp, where the prototypes were tuned for 135 bhp. As a resut some cars were quicker than others, and almost all could benefit from ‘blue printing’ - simply matching ports and fine tuning the cam.
All examples of the Renault engine produced 223 bhp. Never more, never less.
The Triumph ran its big ends after around 60,000 miles, bending two conrods in the process.
The current owner of my Renault says it is still running with 150,000 miles on the clock.
I agree that the new cars are more comfortable than the old ones but for my needs of commuting in Houston my '70’s 4 cyl cars with stock disc brakes and nice handing 4 link coil spring suspensions work just fine. I think I can put my operating costs and reliability of them up against anything and compare well. I wonder how the environmental impact of continuing to use the same cars for 40 years compares to buying new ones every few years.
I have always worked for an airline so always use airplanes for longer trips (anyone want me to get on my soap box about how little airliners have improved since the 707 and DC-9). I also live in a relatively mild climate so I know that is another advantage I have to be able to rely daily on my old cars to get around. Most times when I am out of town in a new rental car I would prefer to be in my old bucket-of-bolts.
Anyone have any experience with the new Fiat 124 ? So far that looks like it might be the choice if I were forced to buy a new car tomorrow. Nothing will ever take the place of my E though.
David
68 E-type FHC
Another thing most often forgotten is the cost in money, labor and environment for producing all the questionable smog pieces for cars.
I had a '71 124 coupe. 5-speed, 4 wheel disk brakes, dual overhead cams… when kept tuned it produced very little smog and ran like lightning. Only thing wrong was I had to replace the timing belt every 24,000 miles… got it down to 45 minutes over the years. Little cramped in the rear seat, but kids were little.
LLoyd
Just for the knowledge my 2010 XF 4.2 is the last year that Jaguar put a dipstick in.
I found this out last month when we got home from a dealer and 2+ quarts were in the under tray dripping out on the garage floor. Lucky it was only 90 miles home!
Pulled the dipstick to find that it wasn’t touching any oil, seems the oil filter seam had a crack and was doing the old time jaguar undercoating!
It’s a clone of the Miata which just about everybody says is the better car. I’d be concerned about Fiat’s future in the U. S.
Decent little car, for an Ini one…
Cam belts have never been a good idea, but back then, open to the elements and dirt, plus the STOOOOOooopid idea of a plastic crank cog…I got pretty fast on those, too!
As for the relative benefits of driving an okd car for 40+ years, and the relative costs?
No comparison, whatsoever, in the amount of pollution. Old cars lose every time.
As for the rest…
IME, the difference between new and old is just…different. High tech cylinder lining and tolerances make engine rebuilds before a car exceeds its usable lifetime an irrelevancy. At the same time, failure of plastic tensioners and other parts in the engine assembly lead to expensive repairs, sometimes engine out. Same cost, different problems. What I see as a major difference is the resistance of electrical parts to corrosion. I
With the Posrche Boxster when the “maintenance needed” light goes on it can’t be reset and has to be taken into the dealer. So it’s either pay the dealer $60 dollars or drive around with the warning message popping up every time you start the car. I was able to get around it by buying a special gadget directly from China
OK. “Slow” lightening. Drove one 2,000 miles. Good handling terrible driving position. And. a speedometer that was significantly optimistic. I suspect most of the performance was due to the speedometer.
Yah. Bullsh*t. MY 83 Sentra got 52.5 mpg 3 weeks in a row, my 2004 Sentra hit 40 mpg once and that took all the hyper miling technique i could muster.
That’s one anecdotal data point: having done some pretty deep dives into the data: modern cars are more economical, and greener, WRT to emissions.
What caught my attention is this thread in the E-type forum. It kinda screams oxymoron. I’m going to approach this from a different angle. Old vs Modern car
I’m going to jump out on a limb and answer this question for all of us in this Jaguar forum.
So what is it about us and our Jaguars?
Reliability? Nope
Polar Bear friendly? Nope
Economical? Nope
So what is it then?
Sensual Pleasures.
I feel that Jaguars touch all of our pleasure sensors. The sensual sleek lines of the body stimulate our visual senses. The glorious smell of Connelly leather, stimulates our safe and comfy place senses. The turn of the key, the glorious noise the engine makes, excites our hearts with anticipation of More. The adrenaline rush of driving through the bends on a country road, all cocooned in the finest Coventry had to offer. All of our senses screaming give me more. GIVE ME MORE OF THAT!
Jaguar.
Beauty, Style, and Performance.
Do we really have to ask?