**
Fair enough Jochen…
The solenoid, even in a separate location than yours, is difficult to bypass for testing. Involving very heavy cable from the battery to the solenoid’s starter connection - sometimes a sparkling performance…
Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**
To eliminate ignition problems (bad wiring, ignition switch, and ballast) from your diagnosis, just hotwire straight to the ignition using a small portable battery pack. You can leave the ballast resistor in all the time, as the battery pack’s voltage won’t drop while cranking (it’s only supplying the ignition).
Fuse it, and put a switch in with wires long enough to reach the cabin (otherwise you’ll be able to start normally, but you’ll have to open the bonnet to turn the engine off).
If your symptoms go away with a separate power source feeding the ignition, then your fault is ignition switch, or the wiring to the ignition. If they stay the same then it could be coil or ballast etc, or unrelated to the ignition.
Does the car have an ammeter by any chance? Battery Isolator switch?
Indeed, Frank,
the main posts for positive and negative are less than one inch apart and access is restricted by a water hose …
We’ll see how things develop. For the moment I’ve removed the kill switch at the negative battery pole to exclude this source of malfunction.
Best
Jochen
75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)
Von Samsung Mobile gesendet
SS and Jaguars from the 1930s into the late 1960s had separate starter solenoids.
Here is the one in my XK120.
I once did that with a screwdriver on some girl’s Ford that would not crank. It cranked ok so I told her to turn the key on, and did the screwdriver trick again. The car started up with a roar and jumped forward, would have run me over. Fortunately she was sitting behind the wheel and had the presence of mind to hit the brakes, otherwise I might not be here to tell this story. She had left the shift lever in Drive, which turned out to be the reason it would not start in the first place.
Rob:
Yup, used in that manner on inertia drive starters.
An older Ford version also had a button, some capped and some bare. Press the button and engage the internal plunger manualy.
to crank. Useful as well to crank the engine with the ignition off.
I note the one in your picture is marked 12v. Older ones for 6v cars not marked. I’ve used them both ways with no apparent ill effects.
Simple is good, I like that. And the starter itself is a whole light lighter and easier to swap in and out.
Carl
The XK120 Lucas solenoid in my first picture also has a rubber covered push button, very handy when you want to crank it a bit while you are under there setting the static timing or measuring valve clearances.
I realize we are on the XJ forum but one or two of you may be interested.
You could rig up a little push button switch between battery positive and the white/red wire on your starter relay, if you felt you ever had a need for such a thing.
**
‘We’ll see how things develop’ is about as good as it gets with an intermittent fault, Jochen…
After all, if the car will start and crank after some time or several tries; it’s an inconvenience rather than completely debilitating. While waiting in a ‘non-crank’ situation you can be prepared for the easy bypass of the relay. Conclusively, over time, eliminating the ign key and the relay as factors - after all; elimination is a way forward. And time will also tell if the ‘kill switch’ is a factor…
As an aside; all connections on the solenoid, battery to solenoid, solenoid to starter motor and solenoid to relay are ‘positive’. The danger with a hefty jump cable, battery to starter connection, is touching solenoid or starter body - which are straight grounds Though admittedly; some versions of solenoids may have a separate ground wire…
Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**
An “emergency” crank method from under the bonnet can be useful.
My “tune up” box has a lot of old tech tools. Some still useful.
Two are temporay crank harnesses. A couple of leads, a handle with a button.
When I was having crank and starter failures in my lump, I added a “red” wire at the solenoid. Just touch it’s bare end to the + post on the fire wall. Crank or no crank ? I left it in place with tape on the end.
Some older Ford products included an emergency crank device under the hoods/bonnet. Apparently, the “monkey motion” device on the steering column not all that reliable!!
Indeed, an owner of an older Lincoln had so much trouble with his that in exasperation, he gave the car to my son and a pal. They fixed it and sold it and made a grand or so!!!
It’s new owner delighted. It was a nice car. I’ll admit, I was tempted.
Carl
Rob,
earlier Spitfires even have the pushbutton solenoid standard, but they use different coils, so the solenoid doesn’t have a connector to bridge the ballast resistor.
Sure nice to have - these days such “engine bay starters” are sold as accessories.
Best
Jochen
75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)
Thanks Frank,
the parts arrived some days ago including the new starter solenoid. I also ordered new rubber boots for the ends of the main positive and negative wires as the original ones have deteriorated with age. No need for a fireworks under the bonnet, so I will replace these anyhow …
For the moment I’m out of town and the rest of the season is limited anyhow, so I’m not even sure whether I can get this thing fixed for next season. In a way I’m hoping for some conclusive “incidents” telling whether I’ll have to get at that starter motor.
Best
Jochen
75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)
Hi all,
after going it all through, replacing the starter solenoid without any change, I ordered a new starter and installed it today. So far everything has worked fine. I’ll check during the next weeks - before hibernation is due - whether the problem is gone.
BTW, the last (not the original) starter housing was still marked “Lucas”; the current exchange part is from Indonesia. Glad I could keep the Lucas and will overhaul it as a winter project. Will report back.
Best
Jochen
75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)
Hi all,
this is a follow-up to an ancient thread just to - hopefully - give the final answer to the issue.
As already mentioned I had replaced the solenoid and the starter. Last summer wasn’t that bad with the non-starting situation.
This summer, however, the car wouldn’t even start with the pre-charged battery. Over the weeks and months the problem got worse. Finally, I could see battery-acid deposits at the battery clamp and down in the plastic battery box. So a new battery was due.
Upon fixing the battery I found that the belt had some slack, put some more tension on the alternator and had a wonderful journey across the Black Forest and back over the week end with plenty of re-starts and not a single problem ever since.
So the only thing I can think of is I had a faulty battery from the very beginning with an intermittent short between the cells worsening over time.
Touch wood this was really the problem!
Jochen
75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)
**
A bad battery may certainly cause starting problem, Jochen - but it should show up as very slow cranking. And a slack belt would give insufficient charging - resulting in low battery…
Thank’s for the feedback - it’s always welcome and useful…
Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe |(UK/NZ)
**
Herrenalp and frauenalp!!!
Battery gassing. I thought that was gone with the old type batteries and easily removable caps to faciitate the addition of water. poorly regulated generators!!
My lump “enjoys” a Malaysian starter. PM and geared…
Far lighter than the Delco Remy. the latter very much like the Lucas that resides in my bits shed. Big and heavy!! Each tough as nails.
Aye, the end of the story is important…
Carl
Jochen!
Sounds to me there is a mechanical interference with the starter gear
and the engine ring gear at some point.
You should be able to tell by checking run-out between ring gear and
starter pinion gear after taking the starter out.
Walter
Ales gute
Carl,
you never fail to amaze me! - You know Herrenalb and Frauenalb? For the record, the names of the places in the northern Black Forest refer to two monasteries founded in the 12th century https://www.badherrenalb.de/de/. But yes, the scenery on my rides last week end was pretty much like on the picture. I’m very grateful to enjoy true “autonomous driving” - who knows, we might be the last generation to make this experience.
Good luck to you! How’s your health - can you enjoy the Jag and the Jeep?
Best wishes
Jochen
75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)
Thanks Walt,
indeed, I’m fairly sure that resistance is higher at particular points along the ring. At least it seems the new battery pulls over the high-resistance areas without serious problems. Time will tell …
Best
Jochen
75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)
**
That rises natural questions of ‘why’, Jochen…
‘Uneven’ cranking is normally the consequence of compression resistance - usually detectable only a low cranking due to low battery or whatever…
That uneven ring gear/pinion wear may reduce cranking resistance is fair enough - but increased resistance at some points seems impossible…?
If you had switched ring gear or pinion at some stage, I would have suggested the possibility of a mismatch. Two versions were used with different number of teeth on the ring gear - hence different pitch. Details escape me, but the difference was minimal - but would cause binding, most noticeable with a low battery…
But it would not vary over time…
Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**
Thanks Jochen>
Health is decent. No crisis apparent. Flaws being managed!!!
My dear departed told me a tale about those Alb/
One housed monks. The other, nuns.
Did the legendary tunnel between the two exist???
Whenever we went into the forrests here, she would liken them to the Schwarzwald,
A popular pork product here makes delicious sandwiches. Black forest ham… YUM, I think there is some in the fridge…
Carl
Carl,
“No crisis apparent” in terms of national economy, foreign relations or environmental issues would be sensational, so your physical constitution outperforms our states or societies by far;-)
The tunnel is an ongoing rumour. Exits into tunnels were found in the ruins of Frauenalb, but then in these days monasteries used to be fortresses - good to be inside in dire times, but in situations of siege you wanted to get out as well, so secret escapes were rather the rule than the exception. As Frauenalb was devastated by fire in the 19th century nobody was able to find the exits or destinations of the tunnels.
The distance from Herrenalb to Frauenalb is approx. 3 mls with differences in altitude of 300 feet up and 180 feet down. There are hardly any silver mines in this area and of the same period covering such distances, so I’d have my doubts that a connecting tunnel really existed.
Black forest ham, on the other side, is easily ascertained to be yummy. And yet, it is not the type of expensive ham like Parma, Serrano or Iberico. Pigs aren’t treated to an acorn diet in order to achieve a particular taste of the meat. Black forest people were poor and the meat of the pig that was slaughtered in fall had to feed the house through winter. Also in the mountain ranges there was no chance of simply air-drying the meat. Rather the meat was hung up underneath the ceiling where the chimney fumes would smoke the meat. So in fact the special taste is the taste of wood smoke. Black forest timber supplies the background to Hauff’s tale “The heart of stone” http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/mcdonnell/hauff/hauff.html#stone.
I’ve spent childhood days in the Black Forest, learned to ski there in winter and went hiking in summer, and the older I get the more sentimental I feel with every return there. I understand your wife well.
Good night
Jochen
75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)
