Power loss 97XJ6R

My first attempt at posting on the new format so fingers crossed.

We have had some heavy rain last few week in N Cal. Last time I drove my XJ it was absolutely p…ing down, freeway run about 25 miles in it and put away wet on the drive way. Now a couple of week later dry weather car started and idled fine but on the road; trans in D it would not rev past 2000 rpm and lost power with lots of shaking. ( seemed like it was hitting the governor). So I abandoned my mission after a few blocks. Checking with trans in N same result. No CE light which seems odd for such severe performance interruption. Got about 93k miles on the clock and it’s never let me down in the 10 years I have owned it.

I obviously need some heavy duty trouble shooting but not quite sure where to start. I plan to look for any OBD codes next but not hopeful since no panel lights on; Any similar experience or advice welcome.

Richard Griffiths
97 XJ6R
86 XJ-SC

Had the same symptoms on my XJ6, turned out to be the MAF. I would be inclined to remove and clean to see if that improves things. You may get lucky.

Jim

Is the fuel filler drain clear? You may have got water in the fank. Try some 'Heet" in the fuel?

Thanks for the tips; must admit I had thought of water wetting some sensor someplace but not in the fuel. Don’t usually get that in this climate but adding some to the tank won’t hurt anyway.

I’ve been looking into the ISCV function and seen some reports describing similar running conditions when failed… Anyone know if an ISCV fault would read on the Jag proprietary diagnostic software? Last time I had the car into a Jag indie for an electrical problem he said his factory system would not talk to the 97 R model. I need to know if it’s worth getting her into a dealer.

So I’ll just “Keep Buggering On” as Winnie said.

Griff
97XJ6R

I had a similar issue, which I didn’t pick up on right away because I rarely wind my XJR-100 up over 2,500 RPM. I put gas in the car and got the message that the performance was… Something… I can’t remember the exact verbage but it meant the car is gonna run like S!@t unless I fixed the problem or aka limp-home-mode.

Quick visual inspection that requires minimal amounts of toolage.
Look at your exhaust tips. if the tips are black and dripping sooty yucky stuff, then it’s running rich enough to cause the computer to puke a code. stick your finger in the goo (if there is any) and smell it. if it smells like unburned fuel, it’s a tad rich, if it smells a bit sweet along with that unburned fuel note (smell), could have coolant entering the combustion chamber - don’t panic it doesn’t necessarily mean a head gasket.

Check the air box for obstruction, check the condition of the air filter, if you’re using a K&N (which I wouldn’t recommend) then pick up some MAS cleaner and give the airflow sensor a gentle squirt of cleaner (it’s important that you use MAS cleaner or an electronics cleaner because these cleaners won’t leave a residue which could “damage” the sensor. Brakleen? That would be a No! Also don’t touch the Mass Airflow Sensor with your hands / fingers or any other body parts. The oil in our skin is enough to skew the MAS reading into a lean P0171 P0174 (OBD Code) or both. That’s why I don’t recommend running a K&N or any other oil soaked reusable filter. I learned this the hard way. :frowning:

Check the condition of the ducting to the supercharger, make sure there aren’t any cracks or breaks in the ducting. This can be visually done. For the less obvious, a squirt bottle with water in it. or a can of carb cleaner (I use water because I don’t want to run the risk of the fluid in the supercharger igniting). With the car running, squirt the ducting to the Supercharger and any other gasket or hardware air related mated surfaces that would or could permit air to be sucked in on the wrong side of the MAS. If there’s a leak, the idle will change.

Bust out the toolbox
Pull a coil pack or two and inspect the spark plug, a lean condition will be a chalky white with a slight brown tint. Rich condition… well… will be black, and the electrode may have build up of carbon on it. A perfect burn will be a light taupe(y) brown color. All of the above is based on the fact the plugs aren’t new.

Question
Do you have a OBD tool? If you do, plug it in and review the codes. I have the service / diagnostic manual in PDF format where you can do a code look up. I can send you if you want. Depending on the scan tool, it will also provide the reading from the O2 sensor as to the air-fuel mixture.

If you don’t have a Scan Tool - get one, any Automotive Supply house will have them - not so cheap. I picked up a cheap one at Harbor Freight for $45.00, and yes its crap, but it does what it needs to do.

Anyway, back to me (My wife is always telling me "this isn’t about you, I respond Yes it is! :P)
The scan tool reported back the P0172 and P0175 codes which equates to both banks running too rich (BTW, these P0172 and p0175 are OBD standard codes - and yes my HF scan tool did recognize the Jag codes. Didn’t know what to do with the codes other than list the code(s) along with ‘MSC’, and no MSC doesn’t mean miscellaneous, like the tool holding a the scan tool initially thought. It means Manufacturer Specific Code.

I checked the MAS, the O2 sensor, and the throttle positioning sensors all checked out in spec. Hmmm…
I Picked up a can of Royal Purple fuel system cleaner (This stuff is awesome BTW). The problem didn’t immediately go away, it took about a 1/4 tank of gas to make the code go away, but the performance still sucked. then the codes came back. P0172 P0175. Hmmm… About the same time I’d received a coolant low light. What The ____! Ok, fine.

Back under the hood.
Upon inspection I could see the leak was around the Coolant reservoir. Off with all of the plastic pretty cover up bits, Sure enough, the pretty plastic bit had severed the small return coolant return line back to the holding tank. Hmmm… The timing (not ignition timing) was poor cause I needed to be someplace. and my beloved Xj6 S-III had been put out of commission by a woman in her hubby’s monster truck. :angry:

Anyway, I found a piece of Fuel hose and a couple small hose clamps in the garage, and repaired the leak, until I can order and replace the tiny plastic hose. While I was moving stuff around to ensure that wouldn’t happen again, I noticed the wiring harness for the coil packs and injectors had also fallen victim of the evil plastic cover. The cover had rubbed through the electrical taped (wiring harness). As I was prepping the harness for a repair, I also discovered that it had also rubbed through the insulation on some of the wires in the bundle - yes these are the wires for the coil packs and fuel injectors. In the immortal words of Adam Savage (Mythbusters), “Well There’s Your Problem!” I really didn’t want to purchase a new wiring harness.

I cut the frayed wires and soldered bits of wire of the same size where the insulation was rubbed off, covered with heat shrink and re wrapped. Done!

all of that being said, I would also recommend checking the wiring (harness) to the coil packs and injectors to make sure they are in good nick.

So there you have it. My two cents. :stuck_out_tongue:

Mark

Thanks for your reply Mark a lot to check here. It’s raining again so I have had not had chance to get back to it. I do have a scanner and will get back to looking at some of this as soon as its dry out here again.
Griff
97XJ6R

Finally got some dry time here and put the scanner on my 97 XJ6R. Got a misfire on #3 (P0303) which seems to have fixed itself, also B30F4 and P13BO ? any advice from the group re these two? no definition on my scanner must be mfg specific.
TIA
Griff

So no replies re the B30F4 and P13BO codes and I have not found any online references other than other folks asking the same question.

Since the weather has dried up and the miss seems to have fixed itself for now I just plan to get new plugs and maybe a new coil to have handy if it comes back. Otherwise looks like nothing to fix for now and I’ll clear the codes I can’t identify and keep driving.

Griff

Bought some new plugs and changed no 3 cyl. Turns out leaking gaskets and plug well was half full of oil. cleaned up and running OK now but now I need a valve cover reseal gasket set. So still more work to do. The old plug gap had only increased about 0.005 in I’ll change all the rest when I do the gasket.
Griff

Is it possible that the P13BO is a P1380?
if so, then it’s the variable cam timing (VCT) fault code, I don’t have a 4.0l 6; but I did find the code for P1380. the P30F3 I can’t find in my documentation. Are you sure that’s the right code?
There are two main components of the VCT the crank and cam positioning sensors (along with the connections and wiring it’s connected to). this is a good place to start. I’m not sure on your skill set, but if the issue isn’t a electronic meaning sensor / trigger / wire damage (fix). then the mechanical bit is a bit complicated, and improperly done; will cause serious damage to the engine.
I found this online - it may be of use
https://www.2carpros.com/questions/jaguar-vanden-plas-1997-jaguar-vanden-plas

Thank you Mark. I thought it was fixed with a new plug in #3 cyl but no; so still some work to do. Still hesitating under load at about 2500 to 3000 full throttle. My skills fine on mechanics not so hot electrical, I did not know about a VCT on this engine but I have acquired a “shop manual” CD for it so will take a look.
Griff

Essentially, the tensioners wear, and slop in the timing chain, this is almost always certain death to the early V8 brethren. The little shards of plastic end up everywhere inside the engine if left unchecked, the timing chain skips a tooth and the pistons meet the valves in a bad way. This is worse case scenario. Sounds like you on top of it.

Just to be sure, change the oil and capture a bit if oil in a container, use a coffee filter or paper shop towel, and filter the dirty oil and see what’s there. I cut the top off the oil filter to see what’s been floating around. You can get a oil filter cutter at summit racing for about 40 bucks. I think its an invaluable bit of kit. Gives you a heads up on excessive bearing wear I cut to top off my filters after every oil change to see what’s going in internally.

As A follow up; I never got to the valve cover gaskets so of course the problem came back again. This time on no. 4 cyl. and again caused by oil in the plug wells,or so I thought. There was some oil in no 4. So this time I did change the plugs and valve cover seals but the problem is not fixed. In fact it ran worse and now fails to start.
Codes B30F4 P13BO and P1316 also came up before I "fixed " it and I have not put the reader on it again yet.
Any description as to what these other codes mean? I haven’t found anything on line so far.
Thanks
Griff

HI Richard
I don’t know if you found this site or not, Engine-Light-Help.com It covers the basics check out the domestic codes section

P1316
Misfire excess emission (this DTC will flag only when accompanied by an individual cylinder misfire DTC )

P13B0
Ignition misfire B (bank) 0 Cyl (1) coil pack?

B30F4
B body (code) other than that I’m not much help.

I do have a AJ6 diagnostic code doc that I’d be happy to share with you. Personal Message me.

Just an FYI; on the Other jaguar forum, there’s a thread with the same issue you’re having and well, “Their solution or trouble (depending on how you look at it, their alternator wasn’t keeping up. (producing enough power).

I can’t find these codes anywhere.

Hi Mark thanks for the reply; I have had the reader on it again and am now seeing misfiring on multiple cylinders.

Since I know I have spark, good compression and the crank sensor is working I’m thinking fuel system next, which might be beyond my capability to check and repair anyway. I do admit to not changing the filter since owning the beast but other than that never had any fuel related issues.

So still more to do.

Griff

Get noid off amazon quick and easy way to test the current to the injectors. A fuel pressure gauge is pretty cheap as well.
I will send you the docs that i have hoprfully it will help. I will send via PM

P030X codes? For the Miss fire? Noid can be picked up from amazon pretty cheap and it’s an easy way to make sure the injectors are getting the signal to fire. Check your personal message I sent you a PDF of the DTC. I’ve got the manual Zipped up, but don’t want to send it to the whole forum.

Mark I got the PDF thanks, some useful info there not on the disc as far as I can see. The noid route is interesting; looking at the engine though it looks like the injector connectors are all together in a sub assembly and need to be removed in a lump. On top of that there’s a harness disconnect under the big blower not visible from the top. So I’m thinking of dragging it to my local fixer. I’ve had 4 Jaguars over the years and if I do this will be the first I could not fix myself.

Got to set it aside for a while, I just Changed my internet access from ATT DSL to their Fiber Optic high speed service. Since no good deed goes unpunished my wife is on my case because her old MS Outlook E-Mail program cannot send.
Griff

Did you get the zip file? Outlook… i can walk you through the steps to fix it providing you know the account credentials.

I will need to know the following info.

  1. Email address that doesn’t work‎.
  2. The version of outlook

Actually now that i think about it, ut the email account was part of the internet bundle from your previous ‎internet provider, then you’ll have to contact their support, and request a “forwarder”
To another email

Problem now identified as ECM failure. Any recommendations as to a reliable source for a used replacement welcome. Jaguar’s price apparently more than the current value of the car.
Griff