[pre-xk] Mark V saloon wiring run

I see no reason the DHC wiring would be any different than the saloon
wiring, going through the RH sill. We have the same sills. BTW there is also
a smaller loom in the LH sill for the fuel pump. Can anybody confirm this?
Rob Reilly - Mark V saloon 627933> I am sure some people will have more actual info, but FWIW

on the MKV DHC I find it a bit odd that inside the engine
bay the wiring harness is protected by a metal conduit
constructed of small portions screwed onto the fire wall BUT
once it goes under the floor, there is no protection until
is goes back up just in front of the RH rear wing.

Only the map light door switches have one wire inside each
sill (body, not chassis), for which there is a hole in the
front.

It may be that they thought this is not a big deal, as on
the Saloons that out numbered the DHC ca. 9:1 the harness
goes inside the body (the thin sill?) AFAIK. In my car the
entire harness has been replaced by a confusing self made
bunch of wires (except in the engine bay)

In reply to a message from R_and_J_Reilly sent Tue 30 Mar 2010:

Hi Rob, the non-stock fuel pump on my Mark V daily driver has a
single wire which comes out of a hole in the frame about one foot
forward of the rear of the front door. I’ll check my parts car at
some time in the future, but it could be ten days unless you make a
request for a special trip to it.–
Roger McWilliams
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In reply to a message from Roger McWilliams sent Tue 30 Mar 2010:

Rob

I can confirm there is a two wire harness going through the LH
sill. One wire is the LH door switch earthing wire. The second wire
is to the fuel pump. This wire exits the sill adjacent to the fuel
pump mounting plate, passes through two larger holes in either side
of the chassis side plates in order to connect to the fuel pump.

Terry Crossley
1950 MKV DHC
Port Macquarie
AUSTRALIA–
@Cros
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In reply to a message from Cros sent Tue 30 Mar 2010:

Hello Terry,

Ok, that’s good to know, I think my car is then customized
in that way (the fuel pump wire runs along the chassis from
the firewall) BUT can then verify that the RH harness for
the rear of the car runs under the body next to the chassis
beam from the bottom of the firewall until is goes inside
the RH rear wing and continues to the trunk (except the two
interior lamp wires that continue into the hood).

I thought that’s the way it should be and can not really see
how the DHC harness going to the back of the car could get
from the RH sill to the back of the car.

Like typically (for me;) this does not help the original
problem Ed had, but does seem like an unanswered question
for us MKV DHC folks. Too bad I did not have the brain to
look at this detail last Friday at JDHT or last summer at
Ole Sommer’s collection.

Cheers,
Pekka T. - 647194–
The original message included these comments:

I can confirm there is a two wire harness going through the LH
sill. One wire is the LH door switch earthing wire. The second wire
is to the fuel pump. This wire exits the sill adjacent to the fuel
pump mounting plate, passes through two larger holes in either side
of the chassis side plates in order to connect to the fuel pump.
Terry Crossley
1950 MKV DHC


MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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Thanks, Terry. In my notes I have written that the LH harness was 1 wire for
the fuel pump and 2 wires for the reverse light switch, but I see now I
failed to note where the door light switch wires were. I’ll have to dig out
my harness and see.
The LH harness enters a 11/16" 18mm hole in the front of the LH sill, and
exits for the door switch as Terry said, but I do not find another hole in
the sill for the fuel pump wire to exit. I wonder why not.
The RH harness enters a 1-3/8" 34mm hole in the front of the RH sill, and
exits the large open back end of the sill, turns up and goes through a small
space in the corner where the rear arch, floor panel and rear seat panel
converge, then continues up around the wheel arch to where it joins the boot
harness. I would think DHC would take the same path. The trafficator harness
also joins here and folds back over the RR door to the right hand
trafficator, and runs across the roof to the left side trafficator. I was
surprised to discover mine has the trafficator harness even though it does
not have trafficators.
Rob Reilly - 627933> Ok, that’s good to know, I think my car is then customized

in that way (the fuel pump wire runs along the chassis from
the firewall) BUT can then verify that the RH harness for
the rear of the car runs under the body next to the chassis
beam from the bottom of the firewall until is goes inside
the RH rear wing and continues to the trunk (except the two
interior lamp wires that continue into the hood).

I thought that’s the way it should be and can not really see
how the DHC harness going to the back of the car could get
from the RH sill to the back of the car.

I can confirm there is a two wire harness going through the LH
sill. One wire is the LH door switch earthing wire. The second wire
is to the fuel pump. This wire exits the sill adjacent to the fuel
pump mounting plate, passes through two larger holes in either side
of the chassis side plates in order to connect to the fuel pump.

In reply to a message from R_and_J_Reilly sent Tue 30 Mar 2010:

Gentlemen Re the DH wiring harness I am sorry to be late joined in
this (off with some heavy duty surgery and only now hopefully
recovering) My 3.5 DH currently is exposed, body raised up 2-3
feet, and the harness still in place where it enters the chassis
from the engine bay. If there is still confusion, I could take some
pix if helpful, and email same. I expect to resume work on the
project next week but cannot lift anything for six weeks!–
chilitom
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Tom, glad to hear you are recovering.
I would be interested to see pictures where the harness enters and leaves
the sill, but not if you have to do any contortions to get them.
I have to correct myself on the reverse switch wires; I found another of my
sketches on which I drew the reverse switch wires departing from the main
harness in front before it entered the sill, so they apparently ran along
the RH side of the chassis somewhere and over to the trans.
I see that I did note the door switch wire in the LH sill, but no fuel pump
wire. I suspect my fuel pump wire ran along the LH side of the chassis, but
I failed to draw it on my sketch.
Rob Reilly - 627933> Gentlemen Re the DH wiring harness I am sorry to be late joined in

this (off with some heavy duty surgery and only now hopefully
recovering) My 3.5 DH currently is exposed, body raised up 2-3
feet, and the harness still in place where it enters the chassis
from the engine bay. If there is still confusion, I could take some
pix if helpful, and email same. I expect to resume work on the
project next week but cannot lift anything for six weeks!

In reply to a message from R_and_J_Reilly sent Tue 30 Mar 2010:

Gentlemen, timely discussion as I removed the loom on
Saturday (3april) from the cabin.
As my body is sitting on a rolling timber work frame, off
the vehicle, thus access is easy.
My vehicle�s wiring is as described in Rob’s but with
following changes:-
(i) The wire loom from RH to LH across the center of the
body contains 3 wires, 1 LH trafficator and 2 for the rear
LH cabin light.
(ii) I also have 2 wires as a loom from the dash area up the
RH ‘‘A’’ pillar that plug into the 2 trafficator connections,
I assume this is the feed and not though the RH chassis rail?
(iii) There is only the LH door switch cable in the LH body
rail.
I have included pictures of the loom in the RH rear of the
cabin and the right & left body rail entry points for the
looms. Trust they are some assistance.
I can do more photos easily if needed as the body has easy
access.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1270378456

Cheers Jeffery–
The original message included these comments:

I see no reason the DHC wiring would be any different than the saloon
wiring, going through the RH sill. We have the same sills. BTW there is also
a smaller loom in the LH sill for the fuel pump. Can anybody confirm this?


jeffery hill mkv
victoria, Australia
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Perhaps this has all been resolved somewhere over the last 11 years. Wiring has begun on our DHC 647519 and now we have the same question about the fuel pump wiring. How is it routed from the coil, switch side to the pump itself? Like yours, we have no holes in the LH sill across from the fuel pump for the fuel pump wire to exit. All the wiring for this vehicle was purchased by the PO in 1993 from Rhode Island Wiring. The fuel pump wire supplied is a single connector with a rubber, weather resistant sheath over the cloth wound insulator. Looks like, it was meant to be mounted outside a protected area like the sill. So is this fuel pump wire mounted along the frame on p-clips perhaps? Suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Welcome Michael. I don’t think we’ve heard from you in awhile. Tell us how your restoration is going.
I found an old picture I took of my chassis, and the original fuel pump wire is visible, so I can answer the fuel pump wiring question now 11 years later.
It runs through the chassis frame and comes out the same big hole by the pump where the fuel pipe passes through from outboard to inboard.
At the front end is a little more difficult to describe. I’ll try to get under there and get pictures tomorrow. There is a hole about 5/8" (17mm) diameter in the left front X-frame cross piece near the front, and a corresponding 3/4" hole in the left hand chassis rail, hidden by the torsion bar so it’s hard to see. Both holes have grommets, and the white wire passes through them. It continues on up to the coil. The rubber sheath is indeed protection because it is exposed to weather.
That is how I ran my new wire.

Through the grommet in the X-Frame above the torsion bar.

Into the grommet in the chassis rail above the torsion bar.

Out of the grommet in the chassis rail by the fuel pump.


Looking at it more thoughtfully, I see there is another large hole nearer to the fuel pump connection terminal, which might be a better alternative to run the wire through. Or maybe not; if it broke or fell off the terminal it might get pulled inside the chassis where you’d never think to look for it. The hole with the copper pipe is where my original was, with a couple of inches extra slack.
For LHD cars you want to put a P-clip on the coil end of the wire so it doesn’t get fouled by the brake pedal.

Rob, Thanks for that detail. I’m not sure if this is the correct place for project pics but here are a few of the current state of our project.



2 Likes

Hi,

Nice! What colour is that paint?

A LHD DHC with scuttle vents AND trafficators??? Do you know where this car was sold when new? A rare Continental European car?

Mine (#647194) was sold by Charles Hornburg in Hollywood, LA in 1950, directional indicators instead of trafficators. Birch Grey with a Pale Blue interior, French Grey hood (top) and a white 18” steering wheel. :slight_smile:

Cheers!

Ps. Your car, #647519 is a very late DHC, 1951, so I take it you also have the later style NDV’s (side windows) and the tell tales on top of the front sidelights?

Yes, this is the perfect place for restoration photos.
It looks a little lighter than Birch Grey. Maybe its the lighting.
Only the US and Canada delivery cars had flashing turn signals, and I’m not even sure about all Canadian cars, so trafficators would have been on all other cars for the world.

First the easy stuff. The color “should” be Birch grey. That’s the color ordered. It doesn’t seem exactly right. It has a little more green to it, more like Lavender Grey but this is also under florescent lights. The rest of the interior is Blue with a Faun top according to the Certificate.


Here is a picture of the doors with the side windows before disassembly (again). I’m not sure what the differences are with the earlier units. I do believe we have the tell tails on the front parking lights.

The trafficators are more of a puzzlement. Again, according to the Certificate the car was imported originally to LA but we see no evidence of ever having flashing turn signals.

The wiring harness that came with the car (previously removed) does not show flashers. The car body does show signs of repair to the rear quarter panels on both sides. The front fenders have only the single filament bulb holder welded inside the housing (not the removable two filament holders) and the tail light housing has just the single two filament holder in each light. There is definitely the possibility that some PO over the last 70 years did convert a flasher system to trafficators but there would be a lot of work involved (replacing front fenders, wiring harness, modifying quarter panels and tail lights) just for that look. Would not be the first time that entire bodies were swapped although the chassis number on the frame and the body tag itself do match the Certificate.
We have an earlier Saloon, 628487 as a parts car and assembly model. It has seen better days. It does have flashing turn signals

Those are my observations…

Rob raises a subject that remains unresolved in all my research efforts into 1940s/50s/60s Jaguars - whether Canadian new cars received same modifications from Home and RoW cars as USA cars received because of their local/parochial legislation re matters lighting, and later safety and emissions modifications…
As far as I have been able to establish, all cars sold new into Canada direct from factory via the Canadian Jaguar Distributor (of changing names over the yeras) were exactly the same as Home and RoW cars, apart from being Left Hand Drive when it first became available towards the end of 1947 Mark IVs. So my money is that any Canadian Mark V and indeed XK120, never had the special for USA only ‘flashing turn indicators’. Now I appreciate there has always been easy movement of second hand cars between USA and Canada, with cars sold new to USA being dominant numbers, so the situation today may well be confused without having access to a JDHT certificate that clearly advises exact new car market. Do we have any comments from owners of Canadian new Mark IV, Mark V and XK120 ???

My understanding is that Canadian Cars did not start getting USA legislated modifications until the British Leyland era, and possibly some start just prior with the British Motor Holdings short era…

It must be a different number, as 628487 is showing on saloondata.com as a different car.

More Mark V anomalies, the Spare Parts Catalogue says US and Canada got turn signals, but maybe it means “sometimes”, or “if yours has them here are the parts you can order”. Mine is a New York delivery and has turn signals. We probably should not assume that the SPC is totally accurate, or we could be reading something into it that isn’t really there. Maybe your DHC was a mistaken shipment and nobody noticed or cared, or Calif did not require turn signals at that time, or it went to a buyer in another state. I know Illinois did not require turn signals until 1954.

Hi,

Yes, all correct. The ”Blue” stands for ”Pale Blue” as Jaguar called it. Both Connolly and Ferrari called it ”Grey”. :slight_smile:

Same as mine, except the hood, my ”French Grey” is a very very light grey. It is very much NLA which has been slowing down my restoration for a long time, ”Fawn” or a very close match of the fabric in light beige is available.

On yours the NDV’s have a round corner in the front, mine (the early one) is pointy sharp (difficult to fit the seal so it would not bind or if too loose it would leak).

Made in November 1950, so it shows that very few cars (DHC’s) were built in 1951, almost all were built in 1950.

Really odd that it has the trafficators as it was delivered new in San Francisco (and Hornburg was the main distributor) it should have had directional indicators. (Although all dash warning lights do say ”TRF”.)

Cheers!

Ps. The NDV aka side screen sharp corner can be seen here:

image

Rob, You are are correct. My bad. The correct car number for the parts car is 628442. I thought I did post it on saloondata just so folks can keep track of these things but apparently not.
We found this car in St. Louis. It appears to be victim of a serious flood, washed away and tumbled into obstacles. The floor and most of the frame are completely rusted out. We were able to salvage the engine block and a lot of other misc pieces for 647519 but its biggest contribution was as a roadmap for reassembly.

Where were these fitted on the MKV’s sent to the USA & Canada?

Tim