[pre-xk] Mutocel (in general, but especially MKV)

Pre-XK
1

Hi all,

This came up with the floors and some other panels on my
MKV. The RH door, panel behind rear seat, rear quarter
panels, some parts of the scuttle have their original sound
damping (although I would think they don’t dampen that much
anymore, they seem quite hard) ‘‘Mutocel’’ pieces which give
good reference.

But the problem is this, IME the sound dampening stuff has
always been fitted on the inside, that is the passenger area
of the car, not on the outside. Also my E-type and S2 XJ6C
have things very much in the same manner, but on the MKV DHC
for instance there is Mutocel on the outer side of the rear
seat panel, that is in the luggage compartment (boot) side.
Well that is still inside and not under the body.

The big question is that as the parts book (coup� pg. 106,
saloon pg. 77) lists ''BD.2454 Mutocel for Front floor (2
pcs), BD.2455 Mutocel for Rear floor, BD.2456 Mutocel for
Clutch Housing Cover (2 pcs) and BD.2457 Mutocel for Gearbox
Cover (2 pcs) where and how should these be fitted???

I have not found any trace of Mutocel on the front or rear
floors and I have not yet pulled the carpet off the gearbox
cover, but am puzzled about if this should really be fitted
between the steel panel and felt and if so, in which places
and patterns? On the E-type and XJ S2 there are parts of the
floor panels that have this similar material under the felt.
I have a pretty good picture now how the felt pieces should
be cut and fitted onto the floor.

It seems strange that the seat rails are really mounted on
top of two layers of felt and one carpet, and on the outer
side a moquette covered piece of plywood, but I believe that
is the way it should be…well the floor is also sort of
flexible anyway, I think they had problems with these seat
mountings in then past also. On the E, the seats are really
well fixed onto the body with steel brackets and metal
distance tubes that the bolts pass through. Well I will make
sure the floor is solid enough and straight in the seat
mounts, I have already used some POR patch and a few strips
of glassfiber in places where the were cracks in the
floorpan and pinhols of rust.

I can think there was a piece of Mutocel on the toeboard
part of the scuttle/front floor, but especially the front
and rear floor I can’t figure out or understand where it
should go. Are there any pictures anywhere that would show
this? Rob?

Cheers,
Pekka T. - 647194–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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2

In reply to a message from ptelivuo sent Sun 16 Nov 2008:

Hi Pekka. The sound damper material is pretty much over most of the
floor inside my Mark V saloon. As well, the flat piece in between
the boot and the rear seat back is immediately inside the boot
metal. The damper material is the first layer against the floor
metal in my car. Either because of the petroleum in it or some
other adhesive, it is glued to the floor, except for the boot-
mounted piece which comes free. I could cut a piece off somewhere
and mail it to you if a sample is needed.

In my car, the front seat mounting points are done on top of the
felt and carpet, as you say. It does not seem so firm, but the
triple screws and body-mounted nuts do seem to hold well enough
that I don’t notice any looseness.–
Roger McWilliams
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3

In reply to a message from Roger McWilliams sent Sun 16 Nov 2008:

Dear Roger,

That’s very kind of you, but thank you it will not be
necessary, I have the original Mutocel very much intact on
the panel behind the rear seat squab in the luggage
compartment (boot), and inside the passenger door as well as
the rear quarter panels and some parts of the scuttle.

What I don’t have is an idea where and how to put it on the
floor panels. From what you write I get the idea that it
should be on every metal surface (except the jack access
plates I am sure) all over the floor, toeboard and gearbox
cover. Why I asked this was that on the E it is on the metal
panels, but only in the middle, there are large gaps near
the sills and center tunnel as well as any corners. Also if
there would be any drain holes, those should obviously not
be covered with this stuff. I guess there originally were
none in a MKV? Well there are the extra holes for the RHD
gas pedal (accelerator) and the pin holes water has made in
50+ years…

But so it should go in the depressions on the floor equally,
does it stop where the front stiffener meets the floor
panel, or does it stop earlier or go on top of the edge of
the stiffener?
(the 90 deg. bracket welded onto the inner side of the
scuttle and the floor panel, with two semicircular cut-outs,
one for the lower scuttle access hole and the other one for
symmetry)

BTW here are the pictures of my MKV floor.

Cheers,
Pekka T. - 647194

http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1223913327--
The original message included these comments:

Hi Pekka. The sound damper material is pretty much over most of the
floor inside my Mark V saloon. As well, the flat piece in between
the boot and the rear seat back is immediately inside the boot
metal. The damper material is the first layer against the floor
metal in my car. Either because of the petroleum in it or some
other adhesive, it is glued to the floor, except for the boot-
mounted piece which comes free. I could cut a piece off somewhere
and mail it to you if a sample is needed.

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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4

We’ve talked about Mutocel on the XK list a few times. It is basically
waffled tar paper, sounds like a trade name derived from the idea that it
“mutes” the sound of metal panels trying to vibrate like a drum head, and
either is made of cellulose or the little waffles look like cells.
I have it stuck on the inside of all my doors, the underside of the gearbox
tunnel, under the rear seat, draped over the vertical piece that surrounds
the front of the rear seat, and in the boot lid. I did not have any on my
main floor or scuttle, but it may just be long gone. It was apparently held
on by tar.
It was cut into special shapes before being installed, so each shape got its
own part number for in-process inventory accounting.
It was not anywhere in the roof, instead I have felt padding up there.
Rob Reilly - 627933

5

In reply to a message from R_and_J_Reilly sent Mon 17 Nov 2008:

Thanks Rob! Just what I wanted to know! (in addition to what
I already knew and what others helpfully told me)

‘‘Underside of the gearbox tunnel’’ that’s what I was
suspecting, although I sometimes can’t follow the logic they
used at Foleshill. I too have most of the other pieces left
and know what it looks like. I was curious about the floors
as none of the pictures in the works Service manual (for
instance pg. N.20 which doesn’t even show Mutocel on the
vertical surface of the rear seat structure although you say
yours has Mutocel in there like I have in my car on the
inside of the seat pan and the outside of the squab panel.
Of course a small problem is that many of the photos in this
book are either from the prototype cars (noticable on the
radiator shell support attaching to the scuttle) or heavily
retouched for the book. Most of the missing bits and
probably also on the floor I will use a similar purpose
petroleum/bitum based self glueing mat, although the two
layers of felt on the floor should also dampen quite a lot
of drumming from the floor. After all I’m not planning on
rallying on dirt roads and gravel. I know my roof didn’t
have any, it’s a soft top! :wink:

Cheers,
Pekka T. - 647194

PS. Also on my scuttle there is only very little in hard to
see places like inside behind the dash, on the sides there
is a triangluar piece of felt glued onto the sides in sort
of cavities.–
The original message included these comments:

I have it stuck on the inside of all my doors, the underside of the gearbox
tunnel, under the rear seat, draped over the vertical piece that surrounds
the front of the rear seat, and in the boot lid. I did not have any on my
main floor or scuttle, but it may just be long gone. It was apparently held
on by tar.
It was cut into special shapes before being installed, so each shape got its
own part number for in-process inventory accounting.
It was not anywhere in the roof, instead I have felt padding up there.
Rob Reilly - 627933

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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6

In reply to a message from ptelivuo sent Mon 17 Nov 2008:

I know one thing… Mutocel is not fun to get rid of. I’ve just
come in from spending the day cleaning tar off half the cabin
floor. The other half is tomorrow’s project.
Graham–
GrahamL
Ulladulla/NSW, Australia
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7

In reply to a message from GrahamL sent Fri 21 Nov 2008:

Hi there,

I believe you, although IME enamel thinner, a nylon brush at
2000-4000rpm and POR-15 Marine clean is a pretty good
combination for removing anything from sheet metal.

This is why I has such a hard time believing my MKV DHC
floor would ever have had any Mutocel. I’m still not sure
about it. Some parts of the floor were so rusty which could
explain it (a PO had mounted a thick steel plate on top of
it!!!) but some are really well preserved and I can see no
trace of this stuff anywhere on the floor. But my problem
has been that the car was restored in 1977-78 in Colorado
and they did some relatively big stuff (like replaced the
rear axle with an American unit, screwed the electrics,
painted the engine red, etc.)

I will try to verify the gearbox cover and some other parts
regarding wheater Mutocel was fitted or not. This nicely
leads me back to the carpets. No-one, including BAS Ltd.
UK/US and Canada is willing to do me a set of carpets for a
Pale Blue interior, although the carpet itself is available
in correct blue but the edges and heelpads would need to be
this greenish light blue, so I’m thinking of buying the
material and trying to cut them myself and find someone who
could do the edges etc.

Maybe I’ll buy a kit in black from South Africa that I can
later use as a template or sell to anyone who want black?

I think the four ‘‘Durable dot’’ fastener receivers are on the
scuttle, so that would imply that the felt doesn’t run that
high on the toeboards, does it? Also no signs of Mutocel in
there, although my logic would say it was required there as
the engine bay is right behind the thin steel panel. In the
E-type the toeboard carpet fastener receivers are raised so
that both ‘‘dynamat’’ and similar felt with black top surface
can easily be put between the steel panel and the carpet.
Ok, that was made more then ten years later which in those
days was a huge leap in automotive construction and Jaguar’s
volumes.

Yesterday I took apart the passenger door and cut and formed
replacement panels for the driver’s floor. The door needs
more new wood than expected, but I have already more top
quality beech than I will ever need. Some welding and
grinding and I should finally have a complete floor and I
could start cutting the felts and putting things back in the
car.

I am unsure if the outer seat rails should be plated or bare
metal, I’m thinking of just painting them and the outer
parts of the seat frames with POR-15 Metal mask. It may be
that the rust in there was a result of 58 years, but I would
like to keep them shiny as they now are. BTW I repaired the
3 broken studs on the driver’s seat rails. Two studs were
original and I just welded them back, but as I was missing
one dome nut, and it seemed completely unavailable, I
recycled one of the better left-over dome nuts from an
XK-engine cam cover. The profile is slightly higher and the
nut itself is much higher, but just grind away 1/4’’ and it’s
almost right! BSF vs. UNF

Cheers!

Pekka T.–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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8

In reply to a message from ptelivuo sent Sat 22 Nov 2008:

Ok, thanks everyone for your input, it’s been verified now.

I removed the SUTONE chime plate for the Bermuda bell from
my floor (or what was left of it) and yes, there was Mutocel
under the fitting plate. So my floor too had it. And the
Mutocel inside the gearbox cover and clutch housing (on the
engine bay side) there were remains that were attached with
copper rivets through the metal panels.

I have a pretty good idea now how to progress, but what’s
bugging me is that I have not seen how they avoided edges
and mounting points and holes, or did they? Apparently they
did not put thin onto the holes for the RHD accelerator
pedal mounting for instance, but what about the RHD main
beam dip switch mount holes? Surely the Mutocel in an LHD
car covered those from the outside?

Now would anyone happen to have pictures available or be
verbally so talented that they could describe to me how the
sound deadening material should be fitted onto the floor?

Cheers,
Pekka T. - 647194

PS. Or any idea where I could buy a Sutone Chime aka Bermuda
bell, I’ve tried e-bay, no luck so far! ;-)–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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9

In reply to a message from ptelivuo sent Tue 25 Nov 2008:

Ok Rob, and other owners and restorers of MKV’s and DHC’s.
Please help.

I bought some regular bitum based material that is thin
enough (4mm) and should do the job of Mutocel quite well.

But where should I mount it? The floors for sure, I will
just cut out the frame mounting points, but I guess I should
leave this also under the seat frames, after all it is much
more solid than the felt and carpet that will also be there
between the floor and the seat rails, but what about the
toeboards and scuttle? Where should I end it? The bend from
toeboard to the vertical part of the scuttle? Or higher? I
know it must end before the fasteners for the carpets, or what?

I can read the parts book that lists every piece, but as
there are no pictures I have no idea how big or small the
pieces were and what sort of holes and cut-outs they had.

I suspect the logic in here has to be the same for all MKV’s
but probably was already the same with MKIV and SS Jaguar.
So some sound deadening material was fitted on the inside of
all sheet metal inside the cabin, like the heelboard for the
rear seat etc. I bought enough of this stuff to cover the
whole car, I’m just trying to figure out where to stop and
where to make some cuts, like I will do for the gearbox
cover. That’s where I had clear remains of the original so I
can see how it was done, but my floor had been wiped clear
already some 30 years ago, so I can only guess where this
stuff should be…

Cheers,
Pekka T. - 647194–
The original message included these comments:

I removed the SUTONE chime plate for the Bermuda bell from
my floor (or what was left of it) and yes, there was Mutocel
under the fitting plate. So my floor too had it. And the
Mutocel inside the gearbox cover and clutch housing (on the
engine bay side) there were remains that were attached with
copper rivets through the metal panels.

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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10

I meant to get back to this thread but got interested in some of the others.
Anyway, I can offer this general observation, that on my saloon the Mutocel
was stuck on the inside surface of the doors and boot lid, under the rear
seat, and under the gearbox tunnel. It was usually cut in a rectangle big
enough to stop the door acting like a drum head, but small enough to fit in
the door without folding or tearing, so it does not extend all the way to
the edges of the door panel. It was stuck on with some tar-like substance
which eventually got hard and the Mutocel came unstuck and folded itself
down in the bottom of the doors. Same with the bootlid. In the frontal
scuttle areas and the sides of the boot there was the thick felt, not
Mutocel.
I have one picture of a DHC door and it looks like the Mutocel is cut in
shapes to fit in the door easily but does not extend all the way to the
bottom or the front edge. I think you should assume that the Mutocel was
added after the door was at least partially constructed, so it either tucked
in under the wood framing or was cut in 2 or 3 pieces to fit easily.
Remember some guy did this on 3000 DHC doors working piecework, so he would
have found a way to do it easily.
Under the rear seat it was cut in shapes so that each piece would lie down
and assume the contour of the panel. I think there was a left piece, a right
piece and a center piece over the little driveshaft hump. Then there were
one or two pieces that were draped over the front edge of the rear seat
support.
If you want to put it on the main floor, I would say to make cutouts for all
the holes and depressed shapes. Do not have it bridge over gaps and valleys;
stick it down everywhere flat. Mine did not have any Mutocel here, it had
felt shapes cut to fit in my floor valleys, then another felt overlay.
Rob Reilly - 627933> I can read the parts book that lists every piece, but as

there are no pictures I have no idea how big or small the
pieces were and what sort of holes and cut-outs they had.

11

In reply to a message from R_and_J_Reilly sent Thu 11 Dec 2008:

Hi Rob,

OK, no sweat, I have just been reporting as I go.

Thanks, I have also that DHC door picture I got from you, it
looks exactly as my RH door did (before I disassembled it,)
but the Mutocel is still on it and hopefully will remain there.

Maybe I wasn’t clear enough what I have:

I have the original Mutocel left in these places, actually
in very nice condition, only some corners torn etc.

-RH door skin (two pieces)
-trunk lid (inside it)
-rear seat pan
-rear seat squab (the back side, inside the luggage comp.)
-in the dash, or behind it, up there in the scuttle
-in the LH front seat bottom panel (not RH) a bit strange as
the seats were not done by Jaguar at Foleshill, but by ''H. S
& C. in Birmingham. Well maybe that was about the only sound
deadening available then in the Black Country!

The rear seat treatment you describe is like mine, and also
our 2+2 E bears the same logic in the rear seat some 16
years later.

And I have found remains, partly thanks to your and others
earlier hints in these places:

-inside the gearbox tunnel
-the LH floor, under the Bermuda bell mounting

I am still a bit puzzled about the floor in that respect,
the parts book says there were basically three pieces, one
for each side and one for the rear floor, and I am sure
there was a cut or a hole in the real and probably also fake
chassis mounting points (as the floor pans are the same,
there are depressions without purpose on the the other side)
but I am almost convinced that it should have been also in
the depressions in the front LH and HR floor, I mean the big
rounded square around the heelpad area, as the flat part in
the very front where the acc. pedal is mounted to the right
and some of the area towards the side of the body surely
could benefit of some sound deadening material.

The remains of Mutocel in the drivers floor can be also seen
in the SUTONE closeup.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1223913327

Anyways, I am surprised if some cars did not have this all
over the floor when they left the factory as the felt that
should be in the depressions and the second layer on top of
it (thicker with rubberized surface) is good for many things
but not as good as gooey stuff with some soft material
(paper? cardboard?) in deadening the metallic dings and
rattles you would get in those days with dirt roads, gravel
etc. The ad I was referring to in here earlier (the XK100/MG
side thread inside the SS100 DHC thread) from I think 1949
also states that the comfortable MKV Saloon and Coup� are
‘‘most silent without any rattle and noise’’ hmmmm… maybe
in the late 40’s comparison they were! :slight_smile:

Anyway, without looking for trouble I plan on getting it as
rattleproof as Mr. Lyons intended, or should I say achieved.

Cheers,
Pekka T. - 647194–
The original message included these comments:

Under the rear seat it was cut in shapes so that each piece would lie down
and assume the contour of the panel. I think there was a left piece, a right
piece and a center piece over the little driveshaft hump. Then there were
one or two pieces that were draped over the front edge of the rear seat
support.
If you want to put it on the main floor, I would say to make cutouts for all
the holes and depressed shapes. Do not have it bridge over gaps and valleys;
stick it down everywhere flat. Mine did not have any Mutocel here, it had
felt shapes cut to fit in my floor valleys, then another felt overlay.
Rob Reilly - 627933

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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12

In reply to a message from R_and_J_Reilly sent Thu 11 Dec 2008:

Hi,

This one would seem to have ‘‘Mutocel’’ all over the toeboard,
but none can be seen on the front floor panel, yet I know
from the Bermuda bell mounting on mine, that there
originally was some there. (in the middle of the front floor
panel) Maybe it just got scrapped off later on this one,
although I started to question the parts book again: maybe
‘‘BD.2453 Mutocel for Dash Front’’ was this one (although I’d
bet it was in two pieces as the heater mount is there in the
middle) and ‘‘BD.2454 Mutocel for Front Floor’’ 2 pcs was on
the floor…or it could be also the toeboards as we know
they confused the felts too and the instructions in the
Service manual. %-[

However these basket cases that have come up on e-bay
occasionally seem to be a good source of information. BTW
that was one of the last cars without the side vents in the
scuttle, so they did revise the felt and Mutocel and carpet
parts in the book right after two more DHC’s.

Cheers,
Pekka T. - 647194–
The original message included these comments:

If you want to put it on the main floor, I would say to make cutouts for all
the holes and depressed shapes. Do not have it bridge over gaps and valleys;
stick it down everywhere flat. Mine did not have any Mutocel here, it had
felt shapes cut to fit in my floor valleys, then another felt overlay.
Rob Reilly - 627933

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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13

In reply to a message from ptelivuo sent Mon 2 Feb 2009:

Hi,

SORRY! Forgot to paste in the link:

Cheers,
Pekka T. - 647194–
The original message included these comments:

This one would seem to have ‘‘Mutocel’’ all over the toeboard,

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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14

I dug out all my Mutocel, and I can now definitely say that the number of
pieces listed in the parts catalogue does not correspond with the number in
my car. I have more.
I was able to identify some of them, and I found that same toeboard piece as
the car linked from saloon.data with the pedal shaft holes through it, also
a piece that is probably the toeboard piece from the other side.
I have 5 pieces definitely from under the rear seat. One for each side in
the flat area, one draping over the little hump, one spanning across the
entire width above the little hump, and one draping over the heelboard
panel.
I have two pieces that are like an oval truncated on both ends, which I
believe went over the jacking holes.
I have a piece that fits the left side kick panel under the vent door, so it
appears that the felt was tucked into the body structure at the kick panel,
and then the Mutocel was stuck over it, then the upholstered panel screwed
on over that.
There are 3 pieces of Mutocel on the underside of the gearbox tunnel, a
large main piece with slits in it to make it fit the shape, a horseshoe
piece at the rear, and one at the clutch area where it flares out.
I also have Mutocel in all my doors and the bootlid. These are not mentioned
by the pc.
Then there are two long thin rectangles with screw holes through them that I
have not yet identified. They fit on the door hinge posts, but the screw
holes don’t match anything.

I also noticed the felt actually has a woven backing on one side of kite
string at 10 strands per inch, and a black coating over the string. Its on
places that were not stuck down, so it must not be adhesive to stick the
felt to the body as I had previously thought. The felt is actually glued
down on the hairy side, not this black coated side.
There are pieces of felt stuck in all around the vent door structures and on
the sides of the rear inner fenders in front of the rear seat back panel.
Everywhere under the scuttle too.
More research next weekend.
Rob Reilly - 627933> This one would seem to have ‘‘Mutocel’’ all over the toeboard,

but none can be seen on the front floor panel, yet I know
from the Bermuda bell mounting on mine, that there
originally was some there. (in the middle of the front floor
panel) Maybe it just got scrapped off later on this one,
although I started to question the parts book again: maybe
‘‘BD.2453 Mutocel for Dash Front’’ was this one (although I’d
bet it was in two pieces as the heater mount is there in the
middle) and ‘‘BD.2454 Mutocel for Front Floor’’ 2 pcs was on
the floor…or it could be also the toeboards as we know
they confused the felts too and the instructions in the
Service manual. %-[

However these basket cases that have come up on e-bay
occasionally seem to be a good source of information. BTW
that was one of the last cars without the side vents in the
scuttle, so they did revise the felt and Mutocel and carpet
parts in the book right after two more DHC’s.

Cheers,
Pekka T. - 647194

The original message included these comments:

If you want to put it on the main floor, I would say to make cutouts for
all
the holes and depressed shapes. Do not have it bridge over gaps and
valleys;
stick it down everywhere flat. Mine did not have any Mutocel here, it had
felt shapes cut to fit in my floor valleys, then another felt overlay.
Rob Reilly - 627933

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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15

In reply to a message from R_and_J_Reilly sent Sun 8 Feb 2009:

Thanks Rob, I pretty much have the original felts and
Mutocel in the scuttle area with then exception of the
kickboard and under battery tray which had been rusted and
repaired earlier.

Cheers,
Pekka T. - 647194

PS. The jacking plates? Are you sure they weren’t in the
oval depressions to the front of the jacking access plates?
I would think the jacking access plates would not rattle
especially if they were filled with felt, like you wrote before?–
The original message included these comments:

I have two pieces that are like an oval truncated on both ends, which I
believe went over the jacking holes.
I have a piece that fits the left side kick panel under the vent door, so it
appears that the felt was tucked into the body structure at the kick panel,
and then the Mutocel was stuck over it, then the upholstered panel screwed
on over that.
I also noticed the felt actually has a woven backing on one side of kite
string at 10 strands per inch, and a black coating over the string. Its on
places that were not stuck down, so it must not be adhesive to stick the
felt to the body as I had previously thought. The felt is actually glued
down on the hairy side, not this black coated side.

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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