[pre-xk] Self Locking Nut Identity

Pre-XK
1

So we went the entire month of May and nobody had anything
to say. Here is a new topic.

I have a number of these self locking nuts on my Mark V and
my XK120. The Mark V parts catalogue identifies them as
Philidas nuts, but I have learned that this is wrong.
Philidas is a completely different style, which I have also
found on my Mark V and XK120.

I’ve been searching on Google and there are a lot of
different styles of self locking nuts on the market, but I
have not found these mystery nuts anywhere.

Can anyone identify the manufacturer or the trade name for
these? Are they used on earlier models?

http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1433288531--
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

2

In reply to a message from Rob Reilly sent Wed 3 Jun 2015:

Hi Rob, yes, I have seen on the Mark V these type of ‘‘self-
locking’’ nuts that you picture though I cannot identify their
particular name presently. My memory is that there also are
Philidas self-locking nuts on the Mark V. The Philidas style
has compressional-distorted slotting on one end. I’ll hunt
around a bit to see if usage and answers pop up. On first
glance, the nuts you pictured also have a compressional action
to lock, fairly similar to the standard Philidas at the point
of contact, maybe the Philidas name was used in a broader
generic sense than my awareness. It might have the usage like
the word ‘‘Coke’’ in the US used as a brand name and also used
more generically. Cheers, Roger–
Roger McWilliams
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

3

Sorry Rob,

I think you are going off on a tangent suggesting the Mark V (and XK120
and Mark VII) Spare Parts Catalogues are wrong.

The Mark V SPC as you know identifies SIX part numbers as being PHILIDAS
SELF LOCKING NUTS, C.3320/1, C.3320/2, C.3220/3, C.3320/4, C.3220/5 and
C.3320/6 for 1/4"ANF, 5/16"ANF, 3/8" ANF up to 9/16"ANF respectively.

IT also gives a count of how many of each size was actually built into a
Mark V - 16 off C.3320/1, 18 off C.3320/2 etc.

Now with a bit of cross-referencing in the SPC you can see exactly where
these Nuts were used, then go and have a look at your Mark V and see what
they are like, and you will find they ARE exactly what is in your linked
photo.

I did exactly the same thing with a 1951 Mark VII I pulled apart, and
clearly the most likely Nuts still factory original are those that secure
the bolts that mount the body onto the chassis - never been touched since
first fitted in 1951.
And all mine were these exact same PHILIDAS NUTS as per your photo.

Where I think you are getting confused is because of the modern offerings
of PHILIDAS LIMITED who still offer a range of new ‘split-beam’ style nuts
that inevitably some thus refer to PHILIDAS NUTS.

Surely we are more concerned about what a PHILIDAS NUT was in 1950, before
today’s Philidas Limited came into existence.

In 1950 Philidas Nuts were made by the PHILIDAS Division of Whitehouse
Ind., Ltd of Ferrybridge, Knottingley, Yorkshire, so that’s who would have
supplied the C.3320/x family of Philidas Self Locking Nuts for use in Mark
V, XK120, Mark VII, noting they were superseded by ‘split-beam’ AEROTIGHT
brand self-locking nuts for XK140/Mark VIIM.

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Whitehouse_Industries

Roger Payne
8 Beggs Place
MACARTHUR ACT 2904
Australia

Email: @Roger_Payne2-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of Rob Reilly
Sent: Wednesday, 3 June 2015 9:42 PM
To: pre-xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [pre-xk] Self Locking Nut Identity

So we went the entire month of May and nobody had anything to say. Here is
a new topic.

I have a number of these self locking nuts on my Mark V and my XK120. The
Mark V parts catalogue identifies them as Philidas nuts, but I have
learned that this is wrong.
Philidas is a completely different style, which I have also found on my
Mark V and XK120.

I’ve been searching on Google and there are a lot of different styles of
self locking nuts on the market, but I have not found these mystery nuts
anywhere.

Can anyone identify the manufacturer or the trade name for these? Are they
used on earlier models?

http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1433288531

–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0 --Posted using
Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

4

Bloody new software - sent of my earlier INCOMPLETE draft, and not for some
reason what I thought I was sending, and of course didn’t keep a copy
either.

Basically I added at bottom of draft that my guess is that PHILIDAS in 1950
was certainly the company name (or Division name) of Whitehouse Industries,
so PHILIDAS is more a trade-name and not a specific identity of these type
of self-locking nuts.

Certainly some period adverts found for Whitehouse Industries do show their
split-beam version self-locking nut, so what I am guessing is that Philidas
in 1950 offered a couple variations of self-locking nut, the split-beam
style as per adverts, but also the C.3320/x family of PHILIDAS Nuts as used
by Jaguar on Mark V/7/XK120. So what I think in the absence of EVIDENCE
otherwise, is that Philidas offered at least two types of Self-Locking Nut,
but it would seem that the C.3320/x version was near obsolete, as even
Jaguar for the XK140 ditched these Philidas Nuts for AEROTIGHT brand
split-beam nuts, that seemingly were preferred over the Philidas
Split-Beam-Nuts.

I haven’t pursued this too much further as at this stage it works for me to
believe the various XK120/140/Mark V/Mark VII Spare Pats Catalogues that
C.3320/x are simply ‘Philidas Nuts’ and that they were superseded by the
C.3968/x listed by Jaguar as just ‘Self-Locking Nuts’, but been confirmed as
Aerotight brand ‘split-beam’ nuts, distinctively different to the Philidas
split-beam nut.

I am onto some new period-technical-literature at present that may shed a
little more light on this, but do not expect to see for at least a month!

Roger Payne
XK140MC OTS; 4.2E OTS; DaimlerSV8
Canberra, Australia

.-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Payne [mailto:@Roger_Payne2]
Sent: Thursday, 4 June 2015 11:29 AM
To: ‘pre-xk@jag-lovers.org’
Subject: RE: [pre-xk] Self Locking Nut Identity

Sorry Rob,

I think you are going off on a tangent suggesting the Mark V (and XK120 and
Mark VII) Spare Parts Catalogues are wrong.

The Mark V SPC as you know identifies SIX part numbers as being PHILIDAS
SELF LOCKING NUTS, C.3320/1, C.3320/2, C.3220/3, C.3320/4, C.3220/5 and
C.3320/6 for 1/4"ANF, 5/16"ANF, 3/8" ANF up to 9/16"ANF respectively.

IT also gives a count of how many of each size was actually built into a
Mark V - 16 off C.3320/1, 18 off C.3320/2 etc.

Now with a bit of cross-referencing in the SPC you can see exactly where
these Nuts were used, then go and have a look at your Mark V and see what
they are like, and you will find they ARE exactly what is in your linked
photo.

I did exactly the same thing with a 1951 Mark VII I pulled apart, and
clearly the most likely Nuts still factory original are those that secure
the bolts that mount the body onto the chassis - never been touched since
first fitted in 1951.
And all mine were these exact same PHILIDAS NUTS as per your photo.

Where I think you are getting confused is because of the modern offerings of
PHILIDAS LIMITED who still offer a range of new ‘split-beam’ style nuts that
inevitably some thus refer to PHILIDAS NUTS.

Surely we are more concerned about what a PHILIDAS NUT was in 1950, before
today’s Philidas Limited came into existence.

In 1950 Philidas Nuts were made by the PHILIDAS Division of Whitehouse Ind.,
Ltd of Ferrybridge, Knottingley, Yorkshire, so that’s who would have
supplied the C.3320/x family of Philidas Self Locking Nuts for use in Mark
V, XK120, Mark VII, noting they were superseded by ‘split-beam’ AEROTIGHT
brand self-locking nuts for XK140/Mark VIIM.

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Whitehouse_Industries

Roger Payne
8 Beggs Place
MACARTHUR ACT 2904
Australia

Email: @Roger_Payne2

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of Rob Reilly
Sent: Wednesday, 3 June 2015 9:42 PM
To: pre-xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [pre-xk] Self Locking Nut Identity

So we went the entire month of May and nobody had anything to say. Here is a
new topic.

I have a number of these self locking nuts on my Mark V and my XK120. The
Mark V parts catalogue identifies them as Philidas nuts, but I have learned
that this is wrong.
Philidas is a completely different style, which I have also found on my Mark
V and XK120.

I’ve been searching on Google and there are a lot of different styles of
self locking nuts on the market, but I have not found these mystery nuts
anywhere.

Can anyone identify the manufacturer or the trade name for these? Are they
used on earlier models?

http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1433288531

–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0 --Posted using
Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

5

The locking nut as shown at http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1433288531 is
used on the 2 bolts that hold the mounting clamp to the steering box on a
MKV and most XK120’s I have seen.
The XK120 parts book refers to these as Jaguar part number C.3968/4 listed
by Jaguar as just “Nut on Bolts”
terry> ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 11:28:57 +1000
From: “Roger Payne” rogerpayne@bigblue.net.au
Subject: RE: [pre-xk] Self Locking Nut Identity

Sorry Rob,

I think you are going off on a tangent suggesting the Mark V (and XK120
and Mark VII) Spare Parts Catalogues are wrong.

The Mark V SPC as you know identifies SIX part numbers as being PHILIDAS
SELF LOCKING NUTS, C.3320/1, C.3320/2, C.3220/3, C.3320/4, C.3220/5 and
C.3320/6 for 1/4"ANF, 5/16"ANF, 3/8" ANF up to 9/16"ANF respectively.

IT also gives a count of how many of each size was actually built into a
Mark V - 16 off C.3320/1, 18 off C.3320/2 etc.

Now with a bit of cross-referencing in the SPC you can see exactly where
these Nuts were used, then go and have a look at your Mark V and see what
they are like, and you will find they ARE exactly what is in your linked
photo.

I did exactly the same thing with a 1951 Mark VII I pulled apart, and
clearly the most likely Nuts still factory original are those that secure
the bolts that mount the body onto the chassis - never been touched since
first fitted in 1951.
And all mine were these exact same PHILIDAS NUTS as per your photo.

Where I think you are getting confused is because of the modern offerings
of PHILIDAS LIMITED who still offer a range of new ‘split-beam’ style nuts
that inevitably some thus refer to PHILIDAS NUTS.

Surely we are more concerned about what a PHILIDAS NUT was in 1950, before
today’s Philidas Limited came into existence.

In 1950 Philidas Nuts were made by the PHILIDAS Division of Whitehouse
Ind., Ltd of Ferrybridge, Knottingley, Yorkshire, so that’s who would have
supplied the C.3320/x family of Philidas Self Locking Nuts for use in Mark
V, XK120, Mark VII, noting they were superseded by ‘split-beam’ AEROTIGHT
brand self-locking nuts for XK140/Mark VIIM.

Whitehouse Industries - Graces Guide

Basically I added at bottom of draft that my guess is that PHILIDAS in
1950
was certainly the company name (or Division name) of Whitehouse
Industries,
so PHILIDAS is more a trade-name and not a specific identity of these type
of self-locking nuts.

Certainly some period adverts found for Whitehouse Industries do show
their
split-beam version self-locking nut, so what I am guessing is that
Philidas
in 1950 offered a couple variations of self-locking nut, the split-beam
style as per adverts, but also the C.3320/x family of PHILIDAS Nuts as
used
by Jaguar on Mark V/7/XK120. So what I think in the absence of
EVIDENCE
otherwise, is that Philidas offered at least two types of Self-Locking
Nut,
but it would seem that the C.3320/x version was near obsolete, as even
Jaguar for the XK140 ditched these Philidas Nuts for AEROTIGHT brand
split-beam nuts, that seemingly were preferred over the Philidas
Split-Beam-Nuts.

I haven’t pursued this too much further as at this stage it works for me
to
believe the various XK120/140/Mark V/Mark VII Spare Pats Catalogues that
C.3320/x are simply ‘Philidas Nuts’ and that they were superseded by the
C.3968/x listed by Jaguar as just ‘Self-Locking Nuts’, but been confirmed
as
Aerotight brand ‘split-beam’ nuts, distinctively different to the Philidas
split-beam nut.

Roger Payne
8 Beggs Place
MACARTHUR ACT 2904
Australia

Email: rogerpayne@bigblue.net.au

So we went the entire month of May and nobody had anything to say. Here is
a new topic.

I have a number of these self locking nuts on my Mark V and my XK120. The
Mark V parts catalogue identifies them as Philidas nuts, but I have
learned that this is wrong.
Philidas is a completely different style, which I have also found on my
Mark V and XK120.

I’ve been searching on Google and there are a lot of different styles of
self locking nuts on the market, but I have not found these mystery nuts
anywhere.

Can anyone identify the manufacturer or the trade name for these? Are they
used on earlier models?

http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1433288531

XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0 --Posted using
Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

6

The locking nut as shown at http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1433288531 is
used on the 2 bolts that hold the mounting clamp to the steering box on a
MKV and most XK120’s I have seen.
The XK120 parts book refers to these as Jaguar part number C.3968/4 listed
by Jaguar as just “Nut on Bolts”
terry

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 11:28:57 +1000
From: “Roger Payne” rogerpayne@bigblue.net.au
Subject: RE: [pre-xk] Self Locking Nut Identity

Sorry Rob,

I think you are going off on a tangent suggesting the Mark V (and XK120
and Mark VII) Spare Parts Catalogues are wrong.

The Mark V SPC as you know identifies SIX part numbers as being PHILIDAS
SELF LOCKING NUTS, C.3320/1, C.3320/2, C.3220/3, C.3320/4, C.3220/5 and
C.3320/6 for 1/4"ANF, 5/16"ANF, 3/8" ANF up to 9/16"ANF respectively.

IT also gives a count of how many of each size was actually built into a
Mark V - 16 off C.3320/1, 18 off C.3320/2 etc.

Now with a bit of cross-referencing in the SPC you can see exactly where
these Nuts were used, then go and have a look at your Mark V and see what
they are like, and you will find they ARE exactly what is in your linked
photo.

I did exactly the same thing with a 1951 Mark VII I pulled apart, and
clearly the most likely Nuts still factory original are those that secure
the bolts that mount the body onto the chassis - never been touched since
first fitted in 1951.
And all mine were these exact same PHILIDAS NUTS as per your photo.

Where I think you are getting confused is because of the modern offerings
of PHILIDAS LIMITED who still offer a range of new ‘split-beam’ style
nuts
that inevitably some thus refer to PHILIDAS NUTS.

Surely we are more concerned about what a PHILIDAS NUT was in 1950,
before
today’s Philidas Limited came into existence.

In 1950 Philidas Nuts were made by the PHILIDAS Division of Whitehouse
Ind., Ltd of Ferrybridge, Knottingley, Yorkshire, so that’s who would
have
supplied the C.3320/x family of Philidas Self Locking Nuts for use in
Mark
V, XK120, Mark VII, noting they were superseded by ‘split-beam’ AEROTIGHT
brand self-locking nuts for XK140/Mark VIIM.

Whitehouse Industries - Graces Guide

Basically I added at bottom of draft that my guess is that PHILIDAS in
1950
was certainly the company name (or Division name) of Whitehouse
Industries,
so PHILIDAS is more a trade-name and not a specific identity of these
type
of self-locking nuts.

Certainly some period adverts found for Whitehouse Industries do show
their
split-beam version self-locking nut, so what I am guessing is that
Philidas
in 1950 offered a couple variations of self-locking nut, the split-beam
style as per adverts, but also the C.3320/x family of PHILIDAS Nuts as
used
by Jaguar on Mark V/7/XK120. So what I think in the absence of
EVIDENCE
otherwise, is that Philidas offered at least two types of Self-Locking
Nut,
but it would seem that the C.3320/x version was near obsolete, as even
Jaguar for the XK140 ditched these Philidas Nuts for AEROTIGHT brand
split-beam nuts, that seemingly were preferred over the Philidas
Split-Beam-Nuts.

I haven’t pursued this too much further as at this stage it works for me
to
believe the various XK120/140/Mark V/Mark VII Spare Pats Catalogues that
C.3320/x are simply ‘Philidas Nuts’ and that they were superseded by the
C.3968/x listed by Jaguar as just ‘Self-Locking Nuts’, but been confirmed
as
Aerotight brand ‘split-beam’ nuts, distinctively different to the
Philidas
split-beam nut.

Roger Payne
8 Beggs Place
MACARTHUR ACT 2904
Australia

Email: rogerpayne@bigblue.net.au

So we went the entire month of May and nobody had anything to say. Here
is
a new topic.

I have a number of these self locking nuts on my Mark V and my XK120. The
Mark V parts catalogue identifies them as Philidas nuts, but I have
learned that this is wrong.
Philidas is a completely different style, which I have also found on my
Mark V and XK120.

I’ve been searching on Google and there are a lot of different styles of
self locking nuts on the market, but I have not found these mystery nuts
anywhere.

Can anyone identify the manufacturer or the trade name for these? Are
they
used on earlier models?

http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1433288531

----- Original Message -----
From: “Terry Mcgrath” <@Terry_McGrath>
To: pre-xk@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2015 11:57 PM
Subject: Self Locking Nut Identity

7

Actually Terry,

Your observation is most telling!

Part Number C.3320/4 is identified in the Mark V SPC p98 as being a 7/16"ANF
Philidas Self Locking Nut, and I maintain that this is the Nut pictured in
Robs Link.

The XK120 SPC J.8 - first edition dated Oct 1950, p.40 item S.44 shows:-
C.3320/4 Nut on Bolt (the bolt being an NB.143/23D - thus a 7/16" ANF
thread)
The XK120 SPC J.8 - second-edition AL1 Oct 1952, p.40 item S.44 now shows
as:- C.3968/4 Nut on Bolt (same NB.143/23D), so that tells us that by Oct
1952 the C.3320/4 Philidas self-locking Nut had been superseded by the
AEROTIGHT split-beam type self-locking Nut.
Third edition J.8 - AL2 May 1953 remains unchanged still a C.3968/4 Nut on
Bolt.
Fourth edition J.8 - AL3 June 1954, p.40 item S.44 now shows as :- C8150/8
Nut on Bolt (same NB.143/23D), so now by June 1954 the AEROTIGHT split beam
self-locking-nut was now superseded by a NYLOC 'nylon-insert type
self-locking nut).

This is 100% consistent with my observations across other XK120/140
applications where Philidas Nuts were initially used, progressively replaced
with AEROTIGHT split-beam-nuts, that were in turn also progressively
replaced with NYLOC nuts. Actual Mark V fasteners I haven’t looked at so
closely but I would expect to be all Philidas Nuts without yet introduction
of any superseding AEROTIGHT Nuts, given the XK120 dates above.

But of course, you need to check appropriate editions of Mark V SPC as well,
not the later post-production revised editions which will give part numbers
appropriate to publication date of SPC, and not the actual build date of the
Mark V.

But most interesting this item S.44 on an XK120 steering-box is my first
awareness of the introduction of NYLOC nuts on an XK.

Roger Payne
XK140MC OTS; 4.2E OTS; DaimlerSV8
Canberra, Australia

.-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of Terry Mcgrath
Sent: Friday, 5 June 2015 9:30 AM
To: pre-xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [pre-xk] Self Locking Nut Identity

----- Original Message -----
From: “Terry Mcgrath” mcgrath1@bigpond.net.au
To: pre-xk@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2015 11:57 PM
Subject: Self Locking Nut Identity

The locking nut as shown at http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1433288531 is

used on the 2 bolts that hold the mounting clamp to the steering box on a

MKV and most XK120’s I have seen.
The XK120 parts book refers to these as Jaguar part number C.3968/4 listed

by Jaguar as just “Nut on Bolts”
terry

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 11:28:57 +1000
From: “Roger Payne” <@Roger_Payne2>
Subject: RE: [pre-xk] Self Locking Nut Identity

Sorry Rob,

I think you are going off on a tangent suggesting the Mark V (and XK120
and Mark VII) Spare Parts Catalogues are wrong.

The Mark V SPC as you know identifies SIX part numbers as being PHILIDAS
SELF LOCKING NUTS, C.3320/1, C.3320/2, C.3220/3, C.3320/4, C.3220/5 and
C.3320/6 for 1/4"ANF, 5/16"ANF, 3/8" ANF up to 9/16"ANF respectively.

IT also gives a count of how many of each size was actually built into a
Mark V - 16 off C.3320/1, 18 off C.3320/2 etc.

Now with a bit of cross-referencing in the SPC you can see exactly where
these Nuts were used, then go and have a look at your Mark V and see what
they are like, and you will find they ARE exactly what is in your linked
photo.

I did exactly the same thing with a 1951 Mark VII I pulled apart, and
clearly the most likely Nuts still factory original are those that secure
the bolts that mount the body onto the chassis - never been touched since
first fitted in 1951.
And all mine were these exact same PHILIDAS NUTS as per your photo.

Where I think you are getting confused is because of the modern offerings
of PHILIDAS LIMITED who still offer a range of new ‘split-beam’ style
nuts
that inevitably some thus refer to PHILIDAS NUTS.

Surely we are more concerned about what a PHILIDAS NUT was in 1950,
before
today’s Philidas Limited came into existence.

In 1950 Philidas Nuts were made by the PHILIDAS Division of Whitehouse
Ind., Ltd of Ferrybridge, Knottingley, Yorkshire, so that’s who would
have
supplied the C.3320/x family of Philidas Self Locking Nuts for use in
Mark
V, XK120, Mark VII, noting they were superseded by ‘split-beam’ AEROTIGHT
brand self-locking nuts for XK140/Mark VIIM.

Whitehouse Industries - Graces Guide

Basically I added at bottom of draft that my guess is that PHILIDAS in
1950
was certainly the company name (or Division name) of Whitehouse
Industries,
so PHILIDAS is more a trade-name and not a specific identity of these
type
of self-locking nuts.

Certainly some period adverts found for Whitehouse Industries do show
their
split-beam version self-locking nut, so what I am guessing is that
Philidas
in 1950 offered a couple variations of self-locking nut, the split-beam
style as per adverts, but also the C.3320/x family of PHILIDAS Nuts as
used
by Jaguar on Mark V/7/XK120. So what I think in the absence of
EVIDENCE
otherwise, is that Philidas offered at least two types of Self-Locking
Nut,
but it would seem that the C.3320/x version was near obsolete, as even
Jaguar for the XK140 ditched these Philidas Nuts for AEROTIGHT brand
split-beam nuts, that seemingly were preferred over the Philidas
Split-Beam-Nuts.

I haven’t pursued this too much further as at this stage it works for me
to
believe the various XK120/140/Mark V/Mark VII Spare Pats Catalogues that
C.3320/x are simply ‘Philidas Nuts’ and that they were superseded by the
C.3968/x listed by Jaguar as just ‘Self-Locking Nuts’, but been confirmed

as
Aerotight brand ‘split-beam’ nuts, distinctively different to the
Philidas
split-beam nut.

Roger Payne
8 Beggs Place
MACARTHUR ACT 2904
Australia

Email: @Roger_Payne2

So we went the entire month of May and nobody had anything to say. Here
is
a new topic.

I have a number of these self locking nuts on my Mark V and my XK120. The
Mark V parts catalogue identifies them as Philidas nuts, but I have
learned that this is wrong.
Philidas is a completely different style, which I have also found on my
Mark V and XK120.

I’ve been searching on Google and there are a lot of different styles of
self locking nuts on the market, but I have not found these mystery nuts
anywhere.

Can anyone identify the manufacturer or the trade name for these? Are
they
used on earlier models?

http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1433288531

8

In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Thu 4 Jun 2015:

Thanks Roger, Roger and Terry for your interest in this topic.
For lack of any definitive trade name I’ll call this nut the
six-slot crimped-over locking-nut. I’ve been looking at
British patents 1915-1950 and have not found it, though I
found plenty for the twin-thin-slot turret style filed by
Dundas and Philidas, and various stop nuts by Simmonds. Even
a Belgian patent with Dundas and Philidas together on the
title page, so I think maybe they changed the name of the
company about 1945.

So Roger P, is your theory that the Philidas company was
selling this six-slot nut and the turret nut and the
industrial nut all at the same time? I seem to have all
three on my Mark V.

I have found this six-slot nut on the following places on my
April '50 Mark V.
bolt through front end loop of rear springs
rear shocks to chassis mounting bolts
front upper wishbone large bolts through chassis (but not
the smaller bolts)
steering box trunnion bracket bolts
clutch pedal arm to shaft through chassis (LHD only)

I have the turret style nut that appears in all the Philidas
advertising on the Mark V body mounting bolts, upper
wishbone small mounting bolts, lower wishbone mounting
bolts, accelerator pedal shaft.

On my Nov '51 120 I have this six-slot nut on the rear
shocks to chassis mounting bolts, front upper wishbone large
and small bolts through chassis, lower wishbone mounting
bolts, steering box trunnion bracket bolts.

On a steering column savaged from an Apr '53 120 I have this
six-slot nut on the steering box trunnion bracket bolts.

This six-slot nut has not been found in any period
advertising or patents yet. If it was from Dundas or
Philidas they surely would have put it in their advertising.
Really the only testimony we have of its being Philidas is
page 98 of the Mark V parts catalogue, and the Mark V used
many of the turret style which is unquestionably Philidas.
So at this point I am reluctant to call the six-slot nut a
Philidas. The hex sizes are all SAE so I’m wondering if it
could be American? I’ll look in US patents next.–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

9

Rob,

At this stage I think you have to believe that the various Jaguar Spare
Parts Catalogues are CORRECT, unless and until you can PROOVE otherwise.
Over the years many times have I jumped to quickly to the conclusion that I
thought the SPC was wrong, only to later find out that I had misinterpreted
something.

I this case I still think that the SPC has not yet been proven wrong, but I
agree that it was a complex few years 1949-56 when Jaguar seemed to go
through three variations of Self-Locking Nuts, but as per Terry McG
observation re the Mark V/XK120 steering-box Nut, it’s hard to doubt Jaguars
diligence towards accuracy, when three revisions of their XK120 SPC includes
part number changes to reflect the evolution of these three styles of
self-locking nut used for the exact same application. I should do the
same for Mark V, but certainly for XK120 it shows the danger of assuming the
SPC is in error - if indeed you are referring to the wrong edition.

The XK120 SPC J.8 - first edition dated Oct 1950, p.40 item S.44 shows:-
C.3320/4 Nut on Bolt (the bolt being an NB.143/23D - thus a 7/16" ANF
thread) The XK120 SPC J.8 - second-edition AL1 Oct 1952, p.40 item S.44 now
shows as:- C.3968/4 Nut on Bolt (same NB.143/23D), so that tells us that by
Oct 1952 the C.3320/4 Philidas self-locking Nut had been superseded by the
AEROTIGHT split-beam type self-locking Nut.
Third edition J.8 - AL2 May 1953 remains unchanged still a C.3968/4 Nut on
Bolt.
Fourth edition J.8 - AL3 June 1954, p.40 item S.44 now shows as :- C8150/8
Nut on Bolt (same NB.143/23D), so now by June 1954 the AEROTIGHT split beam
self-locking-nut was now superseded by a NYLOC 'nylon-insert type
self-locking nut).

Now on top of this I agree, Jaguar only changed their part number if the
new/superseding part was not considered to be 100% functionally
interchangeable, so that also tells me that as you now have, we need to
adopt a unique description for the C.3320/x ANF threaded self-locking nut
that the J.7 Mark V SPC tells us was made/supplied by PHILIDAS.
This is now circumspect given period adverts showing that PHILIDAS also made
at least two other styles of self-locking Nuts - the
(thin-twin-horizontal-slit) turret style, and their Industrial Nut, and I
agree we have yet to see any period Philidas (or any other company)
picture/advertising for the (six-vertical-piece) turret nut. But until I
see proof otherwise, I still find it useful to refer to these as PHILIDAS
(albeit we need a trade name as well)

I don’t have first hand experience with Mark V Nuts, but I do with a 1951
Mark VII that I fully stripped a totally complete/original
driveable-low-mileage-rust-free- car, purely to salvage any parts useful to
my XK interests (I know sacrilege - but for $50 - suited my needs), and in
doing so collected only these (six-vertical-piece) turret self-locking nuts
from all areas that the 1951 Mark VII SPC identified as being C.3320/x part
numbers. By recollection, the only other style of self-locking nut were
the two (per unit) PINNACLE Nuts (as identified in the Mark V SPC) securing
the fuel-pump studs that Jaguar assigned as C2539/1 so different from the
C.3320/x but is that just because of having a BSF thread, rather than ANF,
or was PINNACLE style considered functionally different compared with
(6-vertical-piece) turret style? Again I am happy to call this
top-punched style lock nut a PINNACLE NUT, being re-useable and not prone to
breaking like the C.3320/x nuts.

Now the superseding C.3968/x series nuts, not actually identified by
brand/type name in the SPC, as used on an XK140 are I am 99% positive
AEROTIGHT brand nuts, but are generally grouped/referred to as ‘split-beam’
nuts, which although quite different, is also a term that could be applied
to the Philidas branded (thin-twin-horizontal-slit)Turret Nuts, so maybe
C.3968/x reflects just a ‘split-beam-nut’ initially supplied by Philidas,
but later by AEROTIGHT.

I do not have any Philidas (thin-twin-horizontal-slit) Turret Nuts amongst
all my years of hoarding/salvaging Jaguars, but do have many used
(six-vertical-piece) turret self-locking-nuts and many used (and NOS)
Aerotight Nuts.

So good luck with the Patents searching - always a fruitful exercise.

I really cant add any more at present, but am expecting some new period
technical material in about a month, that may help.

Roger

Roger Payne

Email: @Roger_Payne2-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of Rob Reilly
Sent: Friday, 5 June 2015 11:51 AM
To: pre-xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [pre-xk] Self Locking Nut Identity

In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Thu 4 Jun 2015:

Thanks Roger, Roger and Terry for your interest in this topic.
For lack of any definitive trade name I’ll call this nut the six-slot
crimped-over locking-nut. I’ve been looking at British patents 1915-1950 and
have not found it, though I found plenty for the twin-thin-slot turret style
filed by Dundas and Philidas, and various stop nuts by Simmonds. Even a
Belgian patent with Dundas and Philidas together on the title page, so I
think maybe they changed the name of the company about 1945.

So Roger P, is your theory that the Philidas company was selling this
six-slot nut and the turret nut and the industrial nut all at the same time?
I seem to have all three on my Mark V.

I have found this six-slot nut on the following places on my April '50 Mark
V.
bolt through front end loop of rear springs rear shocks to chassis mounting
bolts front upper wishbone large bolts through chassis (but not the smaller
bolts) steering box trunnion bracket bolts clutch pedal arm to shaft through
chassis (LHD only)

I have the turret style nut that appears in all the Philidas advertising on
the Mark V body mounting bolts, upper wishbone small mounting bolts, lower
wishbone mounting bolts, accelerator pedal shaft.

On my Nov '51 120 I have this six-slot nut on the rear shocks to chassis
mounting bolts, front upper wishbone large and small bolts through chassis,
lower wishbone mounting bolts, steering box trunnion bracket bolts.

On a steering column savaged from an Apr '53 120 I have this six-slot nut on
the steering box trunnion bracket bolts.

This six-slot nut has not been found in any period advertising or patents
yet. If it was from Dundas or Philidas they surely would have put it in
their advertising.
Really the only testimony we have of its being Philidas is page 98 of the
Mark V parts catalogue, and the Mark V used many of the turret style which
is unquestionably Philidas.
So at this point I am reluctant to call the six-slot nut a Philidas. The hex
sizes are all SAE so I’m wondering if it could be American? I’ll look in US
patents next.

XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0 --Posted using
Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]-- --Support Jag-lovers - Donate
at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

10

In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Thu 4 Jun 2015:

My very early M k 7 had t.hose nuts on the fr suspension.–
Ed Nantes SS
Melbourne, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

11

In reply to a message from Ed Nantes sent Thu 4 Jun 2015:

FOUND THEM!!!
They are called Oddie nuts. Invented and patented by Fred
Albert Oddie of Southampton England.
British patent GB513344 (A) Oct 10, 1939.

French patent 851414 Publie 9 janvier 1940

Belgian patent 433282 Brevet Accorde 29 IV 1939 delivre a
Oddie Lock Nuts Limited, Blue Peter House, Portland Terrace,
a Southampton Grande Bretagne

US patent 2215560 Sept 24, 1940

By 1947 they were marketed by Brown Brothers Engineering
Ltd. of Bedford Road Northampton NN1 5NP in a 3/13/47 Flight
magazine advert and an undated catalogue I found online.
They called them Oddie Stiffnuts and offered BA, BSF and
Unified threads.

http://www.chilton-aircraft.co.uk/Images/brown%20brothers.pdf
catalogue pages 255-264
pdf pages 270-279

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1947/1947%20-%200362.html

The Oddie name may be familiar to us because they also made
the 1/4 turn fasteners on the gearbox dipstick access cover.

www.savigny-oddie.co.uk seems to be still around though I
did not find the Oddie nuts there.

My intent was not to disparage the Mark V SPC, nor even
mention the Mark VII and XK120 SPCs. There was only one
edition of the Mark V SPC J7 of which I am aware, with the
main section dated Oct '49 and the DHC amendment dated Nov
'50. Surprisingly the main section records changes that
occurred beginning with cars later than my April '50 car.

I think it is likely that both Oddie Stiffnuts and Philidas
Turret nuts were in common use in the factory, since I have
both on one car. I suppose Oddie nuts must have had C.xxx
part numbers, but perhaps the writer of J7 did not think it
important enough for his intended readers to have a choice
of ordering Oddie or Philidas nuts for their repairs, so he
did not include the Oddie part numbers.–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

12

Well done Rob,

I actually have the 1950 Edition (April 1950) of the Brown Brothers Limited
‘Motor’ Catalogue as opposed to the ‘Aviation’ Catalogue you linked.
And sure enough in the INDEX it shows:- Oddie Nuts . . . . . . . . 198,
199.

p.198 and 199 show two full pages of pictures and sizes in four thread types

  • BSF, Auto-Whitworth, SAE (ANF) in sizes 3/16" to 3/4", and BA in 6, 4, 2
    and 0 sizes.

They were available “Standard” and “Thin” versions.

Interestingly, Oddie Nuts are made in Mild-Steel Cadmium Plated, but to
‘special enquiry only’ were also available in Brass.

Can’t do it on this site/forum of course, but I will scan p.198 and 199 and
send to you direct.

Strangely this Brown Brothers catalogue does not include any other form of
Self-Locking Nut.
Same with the 1954 Edition - one page on Oddie Nuts, no other self-locking
Nuts.

The MARK V Spare Parts Catalogue actually came in FIVE different issues:-

The original EDITION J.7 dated October 1949 - that covers SALOON bodies
only.
The second issue J.7 still in the October 1949 dated Cover, but updated by
AL.1 (Amendment List) which certainly adds all new detail on the DHC, but
also amends/updates the rest as appropriate. It is not dated but by adding
DHC info say January 1950.
The third issue J.7 still also in October 1949 dated Cover, but further
updated by AL.2 is dated November 1950.
The fourth issue J.7 still also in October 1949 dated Cover, but further
updated by AL.3 and AL.3A strangely also dated November 1950.
The fifth/final issue of J.7 is in new hard covers dated February 1958, and
is called the SECOND EDITION, that reprints the original EDITION plus
incorporating all AL.1, AL.2, AL.3 and AL.3A updates, but then brought up to
prevailing 1958 status, so reflective of what spare parts you could buy in
1958, regardless of what was actually being built into the cars whilst being
made new.

The J.1, J.2 and J.3 covering Mark IV is of no help, as they were then still
using split-pins and slotted-nuts for Shackle-Pins, and not yet self-locking
nuts, and a quick scan of total SPC cannot quickly identify any listings of
Self-Locking Nuts.

So do we yet have a part number identified for ODDIE NUTS or do we think
simply alternate/interchangeable with functionally similar PHILIDAS NUTS as
described for C.3320/x

Roger Payne
XK140MC OTS; 4.2E OTS; DaimlerSV8
Canberra, Australia

.-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of Rob Reilly
Sent: Saturday, 6 June 2015 7:09 AM
To: pre-xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [pre-xk] Self Locking Nut Identity

In reply to a message from Ed Nantes sent Thu 4 Jun 2015:

FOUND THEM!!!
They are called Oddie nuts. Invented and patented by Fred Albert Oddie of
Southampton England.
British patent GB513344 (A) Oct 10, 1939.

French patent 851414 Publie 9 janvier 1940

Belgian patent 433282 Brevet Accorde 29 IV 1939 delivre a Oddie Lock Nuts
Limited, Blue Peter House, Portland Terrace, a Southampton Grande Bretagne

US patent 2215560 Sept 24, 1940

By 1947 they were marketed by Brown Brothers Engineering Ltd. of Bedford
Road Northampton NN1 5NP in a 3/13/47 Flight magazine advert and an undated
catalogue I found online.
They called them Oddie Stiffnuts and offered BA, BSF and Unified threads.

http://www.chilton-aircraft.co.uk/Images/brown%20brothers.pdf
catalogue pages 255-264
pdf pages 270-279

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1947/1947%20-%200362.html

The Oddie name may be familiar to us because they also made the 1/4 turn
fasteners on the gearbox dipstick access cover.

www.savigny-oddie.co.uk seems to be still around though I did not find the
Oddie nuts there.

My intent was not to disparage the Mark V SPC, nor even mention the Mark VII
and XK120 SPCs. There was only one edition of the Mark V SPC J7 of which I
am aware, with the main section dated Oct '49 and the DHC amendment dated
Nov '50. Surprisingly the main section records changes that occurred
beginning with cars later than my April '50 car.

I think it is likely that both Oddie Stiffnuts and Philidas Turret nuts were
in common use in the factory, since I have both on one car. I suppose Oddie
nuts must have had C.xxx part numbers, but perhaps the writer of J7 did not
think it important enough for his intended readers to have a choice of
ordering Oddie or Philidas nuts for their repairs, so he did not include the
Oddie part numbers.

XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0 --Posted using
Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]-- --Support Jag-lovers - Donate
at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

13

In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Fri 5 Jun 2015:

Spare Parts Catalogue for Jaguar Mark V Models (Publication
J.7; October 1949; revised February 1958)
P.98, Nuts (Same specification both editions)
C.3320/1 thru /6 are �� thru 9/16� A.N.F. Philidas Self Locking
Nut (both SPC editions)
V.8 on Plate V on P.34 for front suspension calls for C.3320/3
Nut, Self-Locking on Bolts. Imperial/American 5/8� wrench fits.
On my car these are turret top.
CZ.44 on Plate CZ on p.53 for steering column calls for
C.3320/4 Nut on Bolts. Imperial/American 5/8� wrench fits. On
my car, these are crimped top.
V.5 on Plate V on P.34 for front suspension calls for C.3320/5
Nut, Self-Locking on Bolts. Imperial/American 3/4� wrench fits.
On my car these are crimped top.

Also, the turret top locking nuts on my car do not display
external signs to my eyes of lateral slots.–
Roger McWilliams
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

14

Roger McW.

These types of real-car observations put the paper theory into perspective.

Now that we have good period photos of ODDIE NUTS (with 6 pieces crimped
over top of nut) that exactly match real nuts found on both Mark V, XK120
and my 1951 Mark VII I think we have a definite name/label.

Similarly we have good period photos of PHILIDAS TURRET NUTS (with a round
turret top on nut with two horizontal slits) that Rob has found on his Mark
V, but I have not found anywhere albeit have only checked extensively on the
1951 Mark VII (none found) and XK140s (none found)

We then have AEROTIGHT NUTS that are found extensively on XK140s (no ODDIE
NUTS and no PHILIDAS NUTS) these being a hex nut with a round turret, but
the turret is slit vertically in half, with each half having its own single
horizontal slit. I have also seen reference to these AEROTIGHT NUTS as
being ‘split-beam’ nuts.

And then all these ‘mechanical’ lock nuts get superseded with nylon-insert
lock nuts, brand name NYLOC but also these days a generic name used for all
brands of nylon-insert nuts.
(Now there was also PINNACLE self-locking nuts, but they seem to be used in
other applications independently of this ODDIE/PHILIDAS/AEROTIGHT/NYLOC
debate)

The issue is where does this sit with Jaguar Part Numbering and the
reference in the Mark V SPC that ascribes C.3320/x series as being PHILIDAS

WE have identified three series of part numbers for these four different
types of ‘self-locking-nuts’ noting that all have ANF/UNF threads.
(any other threads - BSF, BSW, UNC, BA would have a different part number
series, but I don’t think we have identified any other thread form usage.
Certainly PINNACLE NUTS are used in BSF and UNC applications)

  1. C.3320/x series.

  2. C.3968/x series.

  3. C.8150/x series.

I think the C.8150/x series is undisputed/agreed to be NYLOC nuts and
nothing else.

Certainly in an XK140 context C.3968/x are always AEROTIGHT nuts and nothing
else, but I suspect maybe now the preferred supplier of ‘split-beam’ type
locking nuts - so I am guessing maybe in earlier build cars these
‘split-beam’ concept nuts may well have been the PHILIDAS Turret Nuts, and
if this is the case then we have two types of nuts sharing the same part
number series which could be OK if we presume that both are considered
functionally similar ‘split-beam’ style self-locking nuts. And if that’s
the case, maybe the Mark V SPC listing of C.3320/x being PHILIDAS Nuts is in
error

So maybe C.3320/x should in fact be ascribed to be ODDIE Nuts?

So maybe if we are so confused these days, maybe Jaguar production
line/spare-parts-catalogue development was also confused in 1950.

As we seem to get a mix of ODDIE and PHILIDAS Turret Nuts on Mark V, XK120,
Mark VII but no (?) AEROTIGHT nuts, but by 1955-56 we only get AEROTIGHT and
a few NYLOC Nuts, and no ODDIE and PHILIDAS.

Maybe that’s the task for Mark V/XK120 interests - see if there is a pattern
(location/age) in exactly where ODDIE Nuts are used and where are PHILIDAS
Turret Nuts used, as I have been recording exactly the use of AEROTIGHT and
NYLOC Nuts in an XK140. So Roger your detail for Mark V Nuts is a start -
but can I suggest you may need to record vehicle date-of-manufacture as
well, as I suspect there may be variations over 1949/51 and XK120/Mark VII
use 1949/54.

But you also say your Turret Top Nuts do not display any signs of Lateral
Slots?
How do they Lock? WE need a picture! (Pinnacle Nuts do not have lateral
nor vertical slots/slits - just top crimping lines or crimping pins on
Turret)

I have been able to purchase/acquire NOS (exact 1955/6 style) AEROTIGHT and
NYLOC NUTS (they vary in detail in later years/brands) to augment my
unbroken/undamaged restorable originals, and it seems new PHILIDAS Turret
Nuts are available, albeit so far I haven’t found a retail small-quantity
seller (just wholesale/trade volumes), and no clues yet re new ODDIE Nuts,
albeit I still have MANY used ones that would be restorable - not that I
have any personal need. The 1950s BROWN BROS Catalogue does clearly say
that in 1950 they were supplied new CADMIUM PLATED, not that my many
originals exhibit now any residual plating.

Roger P.

Roger Payne
XK140MC OTS; 4.2E OTS; DaimlerSV8
Canberra, Australia

.-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of Roger McWilliams
Sent: Sunday, 7 June 2015 9:13 AM
To: pre-xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [pre-xk] Self Locking Nut Identity

In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Fri 5 Jun 2015:

Spare Parts Catalogue for Jaguar Mark V Models (Publication J.7; October
1949; revised February 1958) P.98, Nuts (Same specification both editions)
C.3320/1 thru /6 are ¼” thru 9/16” A.N.F. Philidas Self Locking Nut (both
SPC editions)
V.8 on Plate V on P.34 for front suspension calls for C.3320/3 Nut,
Self-Locking on Bolts. Imperial/American 5/8” wrench fits.
On my car these are turret top.
CZ.44 on Plate CZ on p.53 for steering column calls for
C.3320/4 Nut on Bolts. Imperial/American 5/8” wrench fits. On my car, these
are crimped top.
V.5 on Plate V on P.34 for front suspension calls for C.3320/5 Nut,
Self-Locking on Bolts. Imperial/American 3/4” wrench fits.
On my car these are crimped top.

Also, the turret top locking nuts on my car do not display external signs to
my eyes of lateral slots.

–
Roger McWilliams
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]-- --Support
Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

15

In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Sat 6 Jun 2015:

Roger P, thanks for the info about the 5 versions of the
Mark V SPC; this is new information for me.

Finding the Oddie patent started with the initial guess that
it might be American, and where on the British patents
espacenet epo.org they show the pictures on the last page,
on freepatentsonline.com they show the pictures on the first
page so it is quicker going through them.

Searching the key words lock nut and locking nut got over
318,000 hits. Figuring the patent had to be before 1950, I
could ignore serial numbers higher than 2,500,000 and so I
went down the list. There were dozens of lock nut patents in
the 1930’s, many aimed at the aircraft industry. After about
two hours I had a few patents that looked a lot like the nut
in question, taken out by inventors named Chester Tripp,
Richard Luce and Edmond Crowther. So I searched those three
names, and though Tripp’s were assigned to the Grip Nut Co.
of Indiana which turned out to be a bum steer, Luce’s patent
2529093 contained reference patents, which I checked. Fred
Oddie’s patent 2215560 was one of them. Oddie’s US patent
references his British patent. Back to epo.org, and although
the full text of his British patent is not there, his French
and Belgian patents were, so I could compare the pictures,
which were the same as the US patent, and they gave his
business name and address as Oddie Lock Nuts Ltd.
Southampton. A Google search of Oddie nuts turned up Brown
Brothers.

I’m sure Terry’s and Roger McW’s observations support the
suggestion that Jaguar had Oddie, Philidas and Pinnacle nuts
all floating around the factory in the '48-54 period, and
the SPC writers did not consider it important to record
which brand was used where and when, if indeed the line
workers paid any attention. For example I have Philidas and
Pinnacle on the same engine.

So the game is afoot, the hunt is on for a series of Cxxxx
numbers assigned to the Oddie nuts. It might be found in one
of those other versions of the SPC for which I don’t have
access. I hope to hear a ‘‘View Halloo’’ from one of you.

While surfing around the US patent site I found a 1947
Simmonds patent 2432805 for what appears to be the Pinnacle
nut, referencing back to GB patent 545828 from 1942. I also
found a 1940 Guest Keen Nettleford patent 2213353 for what
looks like the Aerotight nut, referencing back to GB patent
271998 from 1938.–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

16

In reply to a message from Rob Reilly sent Wed 3 Jun 2015:

Nuts removed and/or photographed from Mark V Saloon 628166 with
Date Built 26 June 1950 on JDHD Record Trace 10814
(RN/04/137/W/D4 File Locator). Photos posted to album area.

Nuts V.8 and V.20 are identical on this Mark V (both listed as
C.3320/3 on p.34 in 1949 SPC; and as V.8 showing C.3320/3 and
V.20 showing C.3968/3 in 1958 SPC). Nuts listed as C.3320/3 on
p.60 SPC Body Mounting (10 per car) appear the same as well.
Since V.8 and V.20 are indistinguishable only one photo of them
is posted. The Body Mounting nut photographed was left on the
car, no visible difference observed from V.8 or V.20.

These nuts all take a standard 5/8’’ wrench and have 3/8’’-24
thread. These nuts all are turret-style locking nuts with no
external slotting. Instead the turret is a pressed-on cap style
with what may be six crimping blows on turret top.–
Roger McWilliams
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

17

In reply to a message from Roger McWilliams sent Sun 7 Jun 2015:

Roger, you have identified the Simmonds Pinnacle nut,
covered in British patent 558414 dated 1944. I have this one
on my generator mounting and fuel pump mounting.

I discovered how to get the original British patent
documents on Espacenet. Search the document number adding
the word ‘‘nut’’, then on the left side click Original
Document. Each page is a separate pdf file, which you can
Open With and Save As to your own documents folder.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1433727020--
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

18

just pasting in a post that appeared as a separate item.

rob that is one hell of a find and I would be interested in how you did actually find it on the web

I have some factory documentation on the XK120 which the Spare parts cartalogs were actually produced from

They list every part of the car and include in columns description, part number, Suppliers number (only occasionally filled in) Qty off, Material, Specification, unit material size,Source and remarks.

In the Source column if It was made in house the word Jaguar appeared otherwise it was BO for Back Order or A&A or somtimes BO with A&A in remarks column

unfortunately the page is not dated but it is the original issue: For the XK120 steering box it lists Nut 7/16 ANF (self Locking) C3968/4 2 off steel BO and in remarks Philadas and with it a washer C3004/4 2 steel BO

There are 8 Philidas nuts 3/8 ANF self locking c3968/3 for the wishbone shafts.

OK I have found a later sheet dated 6 november 1953 issue 4 and the 2 nuts for the Steering box are now described as nut 7/16 ANF self Locking part number c3968/4 has been crossed out and part number C8150/8 written in and Philidas crossed out with Nylock written. Nylock being a manufacturers name Nuts for upper and lower wishbone levers 4 each parts numbers c8150/7 and /9 are over written C3968/3 and /5 and now noted in remarks column as Nylock. The 8 Philidas nuts 3/8 ANF self locking c3968/3 for the wishbone shafts. are now noted as C8150/7 Nylock

terry

19

Interesting few discrepancies with this Terry - could well be to do with the transitional timing and the draft/unofficial status of hand-written notes, not necessarily being production accurate?

Published Jaguar information clearly identifies C.3320/x as being PHILIDAS SELF LOCKING NUTS with ANF threads, and indeed physically confirmed as such. I doubt very much whether the change to UNF threads relative to ANF threads would have warranted a part number change, as they remain 100% interchangeable.

The C.3968/x series superseded the C.3320/x series, and were now the next generation SPLIT-BEAM self-locking nuts, or trade name AEROTIGHT SELF LOCKING NUTS - and again have been physically confirmed as such, but both had a similar function of being a one-use-only locking nut - once on that’s it, and it was not meant to be undone, but indeed if undone was usually broken/damaged, with a new nut to be used.

The PINNACLE Nut, although referred to as a self-locking nut, was of a different purpose/design and thus was used concurrently with the PHILIDAS and later AEROTIGHT, and indeed still later NYLOC nuts. The Pinnacle Nut was used in two applications only - two BSF threaded ones to secure the Petrol Pump studs, and one UNC threaded one to Lock the generator adjusting set-screw, thus due to different thread family, had different part numbers C.2539/x series for BSF and just C.5454 for the sole use 5/16 UNC.

The C.8150/x is for the new design Nylon-Insert self-locking nut, trade name/brand NYLOC - Terry is your handwritten notes misspelt Nylock.

Roger