[pre-xk] SS100 to XK120, long time between

Pre-XK
1

Greetings All,

Been doing an immense amount of reading on all things Jaguar

almost exclusively before 1950. Haven’t reached the point of
seeing it all, but definitely starting to see information on the
history and the photographs start to overlap.

A couple of things struck me.  One was the lack on any type of

sportscar after the introduction of the SS100. I understand there
was a little thing called the War, which no doubt put these
frivolous things on the back burner.

I just never realized that the SS100’s production was so short
nor did I realize that the XK120 production was as many years after
the SS’s, and that it was a longshot that it was produced.

Years back I just thought the car was built into the late 40's

until it was replaced with the XK.

IF the last SS100 was made in 1937-8 then 12 years without a
sportscar in the lineup was a surprise to me. Couple that with
Jaguar making it’s foray into the American market as a then
fledging company without a sportscar is astonishing.

The XK120 was built as a piece of ‘‘eye candy’’ to draw the masses
to the Jaguar booth at the auto show an originally not intended for
production.

Initially there had been talk of a four-cylinder variant cale
the XK100, I still have some literature that Jaguar released on
this to the periodicals of the era.

It makes me wonder if Jaguar was planning foregoing future
sportscar design and taking the car more upscale and competing with
the Rolls/Bentley?

The other thing that was surprising is the number of four-
cylinder SS’s and Jaguars that were produced before the XK arrived.
The production numbers for the four are much higher than I
expected. Never realized they sold as many.

Sort of the same on the numbers for the small sedans of the 50-
60’s, as more 2.4’s were sold than the 3.4 and 3.8 combined.

         Later, Bob Lovell--

Lovell
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

2

I think they were always competing with Bentley but with a factor of
three price difference.
http://www.scottpeter.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ss_jaguar.htm

Peter.

Lovell wrote:>

It makes me wonder if Jaguar was planning foregoing future
sportscar design and taking the car more upscale and competing with
the Rolls/Bentley?

3

A couple things Bob, explain all:-

First up - for the British, and all the British Commonwealth countries -
Australia, NZ, Canada, South Africa etc - the Second World War ran from 1939
to 1945. I am aware that for USA it only ran 1942 to 1945.

So SS made Sports Cars, DHCs and Saloons up until the start of WW2 in 1939
when factory was closed down from car production to War goods production,
with a few so-called 1940 models little more than unsold 1938/1939 cars.

At end of war in 1945, Jaguar immediately spent what effort they could
recommencing production of the SS Saloon, pretty well unchanged from the
pre-war SS design except of course for Jaguar badging replacing the SS
badging.
They had also designed/built an SS100 Coupe prototype but chose not to
proceed, and there are lots of stories about the preliminary design of the
new XK engine happening in the factory whilst key staff were on air-raid
duties.

Really their first effort at any genuine post-war cars were the Mark V and
XK120, (and the still-born XK100), both introduced in 1948/49 - so if you
allow for the priority of WW2 close down 1939>1945, you really only had 1946

1949 without either a Sports Car or a post-war design Saloon, albeit the
Mark V was only an interim for the real post-war new design Mark VII

Roger Payne - XK140MC OTS; E-Type 4.2 S.1 OTS; DSV8.
Canberra.-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of Lovell
Sent: Sunday, 21 August 2011 1:24 AM
To: pre-xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [pre-xk] SS100 to XK120, long time between.

Greetings All,

Been doing an immense amount of reading on all things Jaguar

almost exclusively before 1950. Haven’t reached the point of
seeing it all, but definitely starting to see information on the
history and the photographs start to overlap.

A couple of things struck me.  One was the lack on any type of

sportscar after the introduction of the SS100. I understand there
was a little thing called the War, which no doubt put these
frivolous things on the back burner.

I just never realized that the SS100’s production was so short
nor did I realize that the XK120 production was as many years after
the SS’s, and that it was a longshot that it was produced.

Years back I just thought the car was built into the late 40's

until it was replaced with the XK.

IF the last SS100 was made in 1937-8 then 12 years without a
sportscar in the lineup was a surprise to me. Couple that with
Jaguar making it’s foray into the American market as a then
fledging company without a sportscar is astonishing.

The XK120 was built as a piece of ‘‘eye candy’’ to draw the masses
to the Jaguar booth at the auto show an originally not intended for
production.

Initially there had been talk of a four-cylinder variant cale
the XK100, I still have some literature that Jaguar released on
this to the periodicals of the era.

It makes me wonder if Jaguar was planning foregoing future
sportscar design and taking the car more upscale and competing with
the Rolls/Bentley?

The other thing that was surprising is the number of four-
cylinder SS’s and Jaguars that were produced before the XK arrived.
The production numbers for the four are much higher than I
expected. Never realized they sold as many.

Sort of the same on the numbers for the small sedans of the 50-
60’s, as more 2.4’s were sold than the 3.4 and 3.8 combined.

         Later, Bob Lovell

–
Lovell
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

4

In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Sat 20 Aug 2011:

Roger,

I agree with most everything that you have said with the exception
that 1940 would have seen the change from coachbullt saloons to the
all-steel version that we know as the MK IV. I have seen a few
factory drawing and they are all dated 1940.

Art–
ARTIEFARTY
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5

Art,

Sorry, not true!

1940 is a significant date but it’s not the transition from coachbuilt
to all steel. All steel came in in 1938.
There were a lot of steelwork changes in 1940 to the wings and boot area.
The Mark IV cars are very similar to the 1940 cars. The 1938 and 1939
cars look very similar to
the later models but there are lots of significant differences that make
interchange of parts impossible.
The 1936 and 1937 cars are totally different from the all steel cars and
use a smaller chassis.

HTH

Peter

ARTIEFARTY wrote:> In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Sat 20 Aug 2011:

Roger,

I agree with most everything that you have said with the exception
that 1940 would have seen the change from coachbullt saloons to the
all-steel version that we know as the MK IV. I have seen a few
factory drawing and they are all dated 1940.

Art

ARTIEFARTY
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6

The XK100 engine was even considered for the Mark 1 saloon but they could
never get the balancing good enough to be suitable for a luxury saloon. They
apparently did not discover what one of the Japanese companies found 3
decades later, that a DOHC 4 cylinder over around 2 liters needs some
counter-rotating shafts to balance it out. Volvo and Porsche also did this
on some of their big 4 cyl engines.
Rob Reilly - 627933> Initially there had been talk of a four-cylinder variant cale

the XK100, I still have some literature that Jaguar released on
this to the periodicals of the era.

The other thing that was surprising is the number of four-
cylinder SS’s and Jaguars that were produced before the XK arrived.
The production numbers for the four are much higher than I
expected. Never realized they sold as many.

Sort of the same on the numbers for the small sedans of the 50-
60’s, as more 2.4’s were sold than the 3.4 and 3.8 combined.

7

In reply to a message from R_and_J_Reilly sent Tue 23 Aug 2011:

Still,the k100 engine in an MG record breaking car achieved world
land speed reocord in it’s class, so it couldn’t have been too bad.

Personally I woner what a better counter balanced crank shaft might
have done for it.
The 6 cylinder pushrod engines onlu have 4 weights for 6 cylinders.–
Ed Nantes SS
Melbourne, Australia
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8

Yeah, it must have been great for speed, but for whatever reason was not
right for a saloon. Plenty of Pace but not enough Grace.
My old 89 Volvo 740 GLE had a B234F engine 2.4L DOHC with these two extra
balance shafts low down on either side of the crankshaft, driven by a cogged
belt. I’m not sure but I think they turned at a different speed than the
crank or cams. I imagine the idea was to counteract the oscillations which
the cams would tend to reinforce.
Rob Reilly - 627933> Still, the Xk100 engine in an MG record breaking car achieved world

land speed record in it’s class, so it couldn’t have been too bad.

Personally I woner what a better counter balanced crank shaft might
have done for it.
The 6 cylinder pushrod engines only have 4 weights for 6 cylinders.

9

In reply to a message from Ed Nantes sent Thu 25 Aug 2011:

Greetings All,

Ed, you mentioned the MG. Oddly enough the MG club my wife in
has numerous books containing much on the record breaking car but
it seems like the MG tomes ‘‘forget’’ where that particular engine
came from in the first place. Jaguar is NEVER mentioned.

Odd as several club member pointed out that MG had their own
Twin-Cam but the record breaker predates that design.

I owned a Twin-Cam MG. Took an incredible long time to sort out
the different problems that MG was encountering. This was pre-
internet days, managed to get very adept at pulling that engine.

                 Later, Bob Lovell--

The original message included these comments:

Still,the k100 engine in an MG record breaking car achieved world

–
Lovell
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10

In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Sat 20 Aug 2011:

Greetings Roger,

Yes, the US entered the war late, but we paid our share with

the 400,000 plus lives of the soldiers that lost their lives.
Found the ‘‘only’’ part a little offensive, maybe I’m just a little
sensitive.

Actually the cessation of production really doesn't change my

point.

SS100 production was over by 1938.  While cars were cherished

for race events and even Lyons had one stashed at his home that was
made available for factory outings/races, Jaguar didn’t manufacture
additional ones later.

Jaguar had made the needed modifications for the introduction

of the MKIV’s and V’s by offering LHD and subtle mods to various
areas but the big push came with the introduction of the XK engine,
the pushrod engine starting to get ‘‘long in the tooth’’.

Remember, Jaguar was planning on conquering the U.S. market

WITHOUT a sports car in it’s line-up… initially.

The XK120 wasn't even a prototype scheduled for production, the

aluminum bodied ones were made to fill what was originally thought
to be a very limited market.

What you have is a reasonably new company introducing their new
sedan, in a much larger and competetive market touting a sporting
heritage, without a current one in the line-up and ten years have
elapsed minimally since the last sports car was made!

That to me, was a very big roll of the dice, and impressive.
It just is surprising that the new XK was to be introduced in a
sedan and not a sports car…until later.

       Good Health to You and Yours, Bob Lovell--

The original message included these comments:

to 1945. I am aware that for USA it only ran 1942 to 1945.
Really their first effort at any genuine post-war cars were the Mark V and
XK120, (and the still-born XK100), both introduced in 1948/49 - so if you
allow for the priority of WW2 close down 1939>1945, you really only had 1946

1949 without either a Sports Car or a post-war design Saloon, albeit the

–
Lovell
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

11

Sorry if my comments offended Bob, not intended - my purpose was to explain
why SS ceased making cars in 1939 against a back drop of US people being
used of seeing normal domestic car production continue on until 1941/42.
This was in response to your question wondering why there was such a long
break in SS/Jaguar Sports Car production

Jaguar and England did it pretty tough 1939 to 1945 and immediate post-war
yeras, and took them many years to recover after having their country and
industry almost wiped out, and not at all surprising that it was not until
1949 that Jaguar was able to release new Mark V and XK120, and why the
British government prioritised availability of steel/aluminium etc to only
car companies that predominantly exported. That is why Australia got the
majority of all RHD aluminium XK120s and USA got majority of LHD ones - we
did not suffer to the extent that UK did.

So “only ran 1942 to 1945” is a relative comment to what actually happened
in UK and also Australia and all other British Commonwealth countries that
also entered the war from 1939. My father served in RAAF from 1939 > 1945
fighting the Japanese, the 1943 >1945 years based with a US-AirForce
Catalina squadron in the Philippines, so he certainly was fully aware of the
US involvement and contribution.

Roger Payne - XK140MC OTS; E-Type 4.2 S.1 OTS; DSV8.
Canberra.-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-pre-xk@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of Lovell
Sent: Friday, 26 August 2011 7:47 AM
To: pre-xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [pre-xk] SS100 to XK120, long time between.

In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Sat 20 Aug 2011:

Greetings Roger,

Yes, the US entered the war late, but we paid our share with

the 400,000 plus lives of the soldiers that lost their lives.
Found the ‘‘only’’ part a little offensive, maybe I’m just a little
sensitive.

Actually the cessation of production really doesn't change my

point.

SS100 production was over by 1938.  While cars were cherished

for race events and even Lyons had one stashed at his home that was
made available for factory outings/races, Jaguar didn’t manufacture
additional ones later.

Jaguar had made the needed modifications for the introduction

of the MKIV’s and V’s by offering LHD and subtle mods to various
areas but the big push came with the introduction of the XK engine,
the pushrod engine starting to get ‘‘long in the tooth’’.

Remember, Jaguar was planning on conquering the U.S. market

WITHOUT a sports car in it’s line-up… initially.

The XK120 wasn't even a prototype scheduled for production, the

aluminum bodied ones were made to fill what was originally thought
to be a very limited market.

What you have is a reasonably new company introducing their new
sedan, in a much larger and competetive market touting a sporting
heritage, without a current one in the line-up and ten years have
elapsed minimally since the last sports car was made!

That to me, was a very big roll of the dice, and impressive.
It just is surprising that the new XK was to be introduced in a
sedan and not a sports car…until later.

       Good Health to You and Yours, Bob Lovell

–
The original message included these comments:

to 1945. I am aware that for USA it only ran 1942 to 1945.
Really their first effort at any genuine post-war cars were the Mark V and
XK120, (and the still-born XK100), both introduced in 1948/49 - so if you
allow for the priority of WW2 close down 1939>1945, you really only had
1946

1949 without either a Sports Car or a post-war design Saloon, albeit the

–
Lovell
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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