I have what I hope is an easy question about front brake calipers & the related banjo bolts.
I’m working on a Heritage Engineering C-Type replica — fully built by Heritage Eng sometime in the early 90’s.
The brakes were frozen solid after sitting outdoors in the Texas heat for a decade. I decided to replace them with remanufactured calipers vs rebuilding them myself (now wondering why I thought it would be easier)
I ordered calipers based on the casting numbers (left front had M20J and 64322278 stamped on it).
So the rub is the banjo bolt from the original caliper doesn’t fit the new caliper. The original looks like a 3/8 inch fine threaded banjo bolt and the new one takes an M10-1.0.
- Can I just buy and use an M10-1.0 banjo bolt in the existing banjo?
*Did Jaguar go from SAE to Metric on the 4 piston calipers at some point?
If I have to replace the banjos, I’ll likely replace the brake lines as well. Then I’ll just have to chase down the correct fitting for the other end of the line…
Thanks for any tips/info
Hi Andrew…yes Jaguar did change to metric for the caliper fittings…but i thought it was only when they changed from the 3 pot to the 4 pot…so M10 for your new is correct i think…be vary carefull as m10 is very close to 3/8 24 which is used on other hardline fitting…you dont want to fit the wrong one so double check everytime…however you just have to deal with what you have…yes use whatever fittings you need…these fittings arnt called “banjo”…banjo is a different type of fitting…the ones you need are just caller hard line brake fitting…flexi lines can be made to your spec by any local brake shop…typically with these larger calipers they had to be shaved down a bit or the wheels wouldnt fit…depending what wheel you have…so trial fit…Steve PS these are Girling calipers the numbers on the calipers will be casting numbers and not part numbers so the same mouldings could be machined differently for different applications…as an example Volvo used what looked like the same 4 pot caliper often used on E types as an upgrade…i dont know what threads they used…the problem you have is not knowing what car model parts were used to build your car…so befor replaceing anything carefully measure and compare the old to the new part…Steve
Thanks for the info/guidance!
I was able to install the new caliper after picking up an M10-1.0. I also test fit a wheel and it looks like it clears the new caliper.
I plan to replace the flexible lines but unfortunately the shop I went to didn’t have small diameter brake lines to match the ones used by Heritage. I need to run to San Antonio and plan to drop by a shop that only makes hoses & tubes (it’s 90+ miles one way but I’ll run a few errands there).
My son was helpful and took pics to share with his friends. I sense he’s quickly becoming a car guy
PS. I’ve been trying to get to your C-Type blog for months but can’t get the website to send me a confirmation email after registering. I tried three different email addresses and no luck.
Hi Andrew…i activated “Speedracer” on the Replijag forum so think you should now be on…typically with heritage builds the flexi was fitted straight into the caliper…i dont like this idea and prefer as Jaguar did to have a short hardline directly into the caliper and a flexi into the hardline…dont forget Heritage didnt build these cars they supplies any parts that you ordered but but it was up to the builder how they actually put it together…Steve
Thanks for activating my account!
I’m not sure if Heritage fully built many cars, but in this case I’m pretty sure they built it.
I’m friends with the original owner. He described going to the Heritage workshop to be measured by Jack & Roger before they delivered his car. He has a passion for sports cars, but has never worked on one which is why this one wound up with me. When I first saw the C-Type it had been sitting in his driveway for a decade since he had issues with the Webers and hadn’t had time to find a local mechanic familiar with them (he’s only in town a few weeks per year). Little did he know that all the years in the Texas weather has made the Webers the least of the car’s issues.
I’m including a pic from a book I found on the history of the UK’s kit car industry. It’s only a few lines of info but I found it interesting.
Ok my mistake… dont know much about the Heritage cars…Realm however With Adrian Cocking i do know…he has built C.s but not many… Steve
I appreciate the insights/advice.
Quick update on the brakes.
As mentioned, first side went on fine after sourcing the correct M10-1.0 but the right side…I thought I was going nuts when I removed the hub only to discover it was missing the hub seal. This side had some (but not a lot) of grease and the stub axle had some scoring (not surprising given the missing seal).
I ordered a bearing kit from Moss (includes inner/outer bearings + hub seal) and added the two water deflectors (on hub and on stub axle) plus a new stub axle. It was an expensive find but I’m sure it’s just one of many.
I’ve never replaced a stub axle or a race (for bearings) so I’ll be scouring this forum and the web for tips/videos. I really didn’t want to replace the stub or races but between the scoring and the way the inner bearing was worn, I felt it was the right thing to do. Now just waiting on parts from Moss.
Hi Andrew. To remove the stub axel loosen the nut a few turns but dont remove it…put the upright and stub axel in a press 20ton…sounds a lot but its a home workshop tool…or take it to a shop … apply pressure…it will let go with a huge gunshot bang…if you had removed the nut completely the stub would fly across the garage like a missile…so take care…Steve
Thanks for the tips. I’m planning to tackle the stub axle this weekend.
I had to pick up a larger wrench for the nut and added a replacement nut since I was already ordering a few things from Moss.
I don’t have a press so planning to look for a garage or machine shop that can assist (I may also take a few swings at it with a hammer before taking it).
I’ll be glad to get past this point and on to the next.
I’ll probably do the rear brakes next then the master cylinder and booster since the brake booster hisses when the brakes are pumped.
Btw, I’ll have a few questions about dropping the IRS in a Heritage / Realm since it looks a little different vs the caged rear ends I’ve seen on the web but that’s a question for another day.
Nooooo dont try with a hammer…it wont work and you could easily damage the upright…in my opinion a hammer should be banned from the Jaguar toolbox…if you think you need a hammer your doing something wrong…yes the rear suspension is different its built up on the chassis as opposed to in a cage also to get to the top bolts holding the diff to the chassis the fuel tank needs to come out…from the wheel arch on your driver side…Steve
Re rear brakes…you can cut an access panel or depending how yours is built remove the lower rear bulkhead panel behing the seats to access the brakes…a removable panel is a good idea for brake maintenance…Steve
Front brakes are done. After doing the rear brakes, I’ll probably replace the master cylinder and booster as well. This car sat so long that everything is a little slow to move or has a leak.
I need to see if there’s a panel to access the rear brakes (as mentioned) but also want to get a look at the gas tank so the body may need to come off anyway. (I haven’t figured out how to remove it yet.)
Hi Andrew…as i mentioned previously on my Realm the fuel tank slides out of the left hand side wheel arch…removeing the harness support first…you cannot fit or remove the body with the tank fitted…your car may be different though…on the Realm the body has a bolt either side at front onto chassis…3 or 4 bolts under dash fixing up to chassis…then either side along the sill the body sits on a long lip and it typically rivited and bond sealant used. …Steve
Back from a break…Any tips for removing replica spinners?
When removing the fronts, I noticed the car has a mix of original Jag and MWS spinners. The MWS was a pain to remove while the original Jag was removed using a dead blow hammer and five minutes of time.
I assume this won’t be viewed favorably, but I used the Limit Fab tool pictured below to remove the front MWS spinner after a week of using penetrating oil plus a mix of dead blow hammers and sledge hammers (cushioned by wood) but I want to learn from others if there’s a better way to remove MWS spinners.
I’m assuming my lead hammers will be the right tool once I’ve removed & reinstalled the wheels/spinners.
**Remember this car sat for a decade so they haven’t been removed in a loooong time.
** Too much info…hoping someone has a suggestion…I’m relatively young but have arthritis and can only swing the hammers for so long before I need a break. Plus I live in Texas where it has been 107F / 42C lately so it limits the time I want to spend working on the Jag (my garage isn’t air conditioned)
Hi Andrew…good news your spinners are off…lots of discussions on spinners…especially repros…quite often they do not tighten as well as Jag ones you whack them and think they are tight but on driving you notice clicks and find they ase loose…however MWS are quite good repros and iv not had a problem with them…however a suspicion that threads are not the same…always use anti seize coppa slip on the splines…just a thin smeer…hand tighten then a couple of whacks with a lead hammer…drop the wheel onto the ground and a couple more whacks…just from the elbow…not full power…In my opinion i would get good used Jag spinners which are bronze alloy and half the weight of repro brass…used are easy to find and if you want show standard they can be “dressed” and re chromed…Steve…ps note the Jaguar font the center GU should be large on originals repro is narrow…look at your oil cap and compare the font
Only 2 of the spinners are off so far (the fronts).
Based on the fonts, both rears are MWS. I’m hoping they cooperate and come off easier than the fronts.
I just applied penetrating oil and waiting a bit before giving it another go.
The left one pictured is an original. The right is MWS.
I like the thought of replacing the MWS with original and will probably shop for used ones. I don’t mind if they’re just a little scruffy so they should be easy to find.
Hi Andrew…ok then just whack them off…dont worry about damaging the spinner…they can be difficulty…forget the lead mallet and use a decent 4lb hammer direct in the spinner…
Ps the left spinner looks too nice to be originsk unless its been rechromed…originals have AB inside
Thanks for the recommendation…I gave up on the soft mallets and hit them with a regular sledge since they’re reproductions and can be replaced. They loosed up with one good whack before I went back to my lead and other mallets (minimal marring so all is good).
Glad they came off since I finally found a tire shop willing to mount tires on wire wheels. They were recommended by a local vintage car shop and it’s the only one they were aware of other than a few super high end shops. I had them replace the front tires today and planning to get the rears done tomorrow,
Gotta make progress over the next few weeks. Starting a new job and plan to take a few weeks off so I can tackle car projects. Hoping I can finish the rear brakes and sort the clutch issue. Oh, and if my wife finds this post, I also plan on cleaning & re-staining the deck