Well generically speaking Porsche did race with their PDK gearbox to good
effect in their 917 I think it was. It was faster than the manual car but I
think there was a problem with weight or reliability. Every now and then
they threaten to come out with it again. Strange but true.
I assume most racing classes actually ban them. But we are not talking slush
boxes here.-----Original Message-----
Oh speaking of gearboxes, I assume no one in their right mind
has ever used the Auto in racing / drag or anything else?
In reply to a message from Mark Eaton sent Wed 23 Feb 2011:
OH, contrare, a GM autobox is the best way to go.
the GM ht400 is as strong as you may ever need, and lots
of HD pieces to fit.
if you gonna make streetable cruisin the GM 4L80E would be
good choice,has 4th overdrive.
in drag racin everytime you shift a manual trans. you lose
about 1/2 car length,autos shift instantly! unless you go
BIG BUX and use an air shifted trans. of some type.
best for the money would be a GM autobox., manuals are good
for road race and hiway cruisinā
The original message included these comments:
Well generically speaking Porsche did race with their PDK gearbox to good
effect in their 917 I think it was. It was faster than the manual car but I
I assume most racing classes actually ban them. But we are not talking slush
boxes here.
Oh speaking of gearboxes, I assume no one in their right mind
has ever used the Auto in racing / drag or anything else?
In reply to a message from Ronbros sent Wed 23 Feb 2011:
Cheers all.
A couple of quickies.
I believe the Hearse is running 8:1 pistons. I
understand 7:1 are available, do I need those to run a
super/turbo charger?
Ronbros correctly stated that modern autos can and do
change quicker than their manual counterparts. A good
example of this is the XJ8 boxā¦ Anyway, my question was
more aimed at the 3 speed slush box in the Hearse at the
moment. I assume that would be no good for anything drag
related? I bet its tough enough for 400 BHP, but I suspect
the top end and the fact there are only 3 gears would rule
it out?
we all know that Jagās runs stupidly hot as standard,
would the heat from a turbo just be so much that its all
just going to melt? (i believe a supercharger will run
cooler)
As you guys stated XJ6ās are available as complete cars, so
i am looking at my options and buying a XJ6 S3 and taking
the injection etc (also the seats, seat belts etc etc)ā¦
The breaking the rest of the car to sellā¦ but on the other
handā¦
There is a clear cross-roads here. I think its a decision I
need to make sooner rather than later, so I can start
getting bits over the next year or soā¦
a) injection, turbo. -(easy to get bits eg XJ6 S3 injection
etc). ļæ½300 for an XJ6 and ļæ½300 for a second hand turbo, or
ļæ½1500 for a Garret T4 or somethingā¦
b) supercharger SUās. (supercharger is a big outlay up
front) ļæ½2000 for a supercharger, either Eaton M90, Rotex
etc, I have all the SUās and bits so thatās freeā¦
c) Nitrous (fast going of this idea.) ļæ½600 and we are all
done.ā
Lusstor
UK - South, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Lusstor sent Wed 23 Feb 2011:
Well we have 24 hour endurance racing for $500 cars. Honest the
car canāt be worth more than $500 although rollcage and safety
stuff doesnāt count.Nor do tires or brakes.
But they are junkersā¦ No cheaters. If they suspect you have more
than a junker they simply assign enough penalty laps so you canāt
possibly winā¦
Auto trans are used but If you can adapt something else itās
betterā¦ (besides that Borg warner isnāt easily modified) Jaguars 4
speed (the later all syncro unit) is a good choiceā¦ even the early
Moss box is better than the automaticā¦
The getrag 5 speed is available but might be a chore for you to
adaptā¦ plus 5th gear is not a peformance gear, itās a get better
mileage and donāt wear out the engine so fast gear.
If I were in your shoes and thinking of hoping up something Iād
go find a 4.0 Jaguar thatās too rusty to meet your MOT inspectionā¦
Hoepfully it will have the 5 speedā¦ Grab the engine transmission
computer fuel pump, wiring, etcā¦
Thatās gonna be more power than hoping up your old sixā¦ and itās
roughly 100 pounds lighter.
Then hunt around for a big used turbo and you could approach 400
horsepower for not a lot of moneyā¦ that 4.0 is tough as nails and
easily goes 200,000 miles without serious workā¦plus itās not
terriblke on fuel
Adapting it to work is no harder and likely a whole lot less
expensive than a Chevy would beā¦
Finally have you seen one all polished up? (Itās all aluminum)
with a big turbo from a truck stuck in there you could make some
really serious power!ā
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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In reply to a message from MGuar sent Wed 2 Mar 2011:
Cheers MGuar.
Lets not lose track of the original purpose here. I have a
1967 S-type with a shiny nice (standard engine), Ali is
polished to almost mirror finish.
I also have a 1977 DS420 Hearse, its the Hearse I want to
Drag race and drive as a custom on high days and holidays. I
am not sure in my mind if I want a pure drag race car, or
something that looks coolā¦ maybe both. (read the posts
above for the potted history)
I think after talking to the other guys and a bit of looking
about I like the idea of using the XK engineā¦
I have also found several dragsters on-line using XK
engines.
I am not saying for one moment I can afford this!!!
hahahahh, but saying that my wife has got good working
organs and there is a shortageā¦ā
Lusstor
UK - South, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Lusstor sent Fri 4 Mar 2011:
Well I actually applaud the idea of the XK/ hearse simply becuase
itās so wacko youāll have fun no matter how fast you goā¦ The
option of other engines is instead of the boring small block
chevyā¦
8.0-1 compression is fine to āāturbo/superchargeāā simply limit
the amount of boost you produce to meet the octane fuel availableā¦
Hereās the deal between 7.0-1 and 8.0-1 compressionā¦ and
boostā¦youāll find in a lot of cruising conditions you arenāt
producing any boost. with a 7.0-1 compression you have to produce
that much more boost to fill the chambers before the excitement
beginsā¦
The more boost needed, The more the charge is heated up and the
closer to detonation you are. Yes a intercooler will chill the
compressed air but adds complexity to the systemā¦ā
The original message included these comments:
1967 S-type with a shiny nice (standard engine), Ali is
I also have a 1977 DS420 Hearse, its the Hearse I want to
Drag race and drive as a custom on high days and holidays. I
am not sure in my mind if I want a pure drag race car, or
In reply to a message from Ronbros sent Wed 23 Feb 2011:
Ron,
Sorry buddy, the auto trans behind that XK engine is the old Borg
Warner. Cast Iron Case and all. Famous for use in the Studebaker.
Not the Turbo 400 in the V12.ā
The original message included these comments:
OH, contrare, a GM autobox is the best way to go.
the GM ht400 is as strong as you may ever need, and lots
of HD pieces to fit.
In reply to a message from Robert Laughton sent Sat 5 Mar 2011:
Easy to find out. Stick a magnet on the case, if it sticks itās
cast Iron Borg Warner. famous in Studebakers of the 1950ās
Never, ever, seen a seperate bellhousing for a turbo 400. (Iāve
spent a lot of time crawling though junkyards)ā¦ā
The original message included these comments:
Yes, I think the hearse has the rare GM400 with 6 cylinder bell,
In reply to a message from Lusstor sent Tue 8 Feb 2011:
There are several free web sites (try Horsepower calculator on
Google or whatever search engine you use) where you can plug in the
car weight and horsepower and figure out your 1/4 mile times. It
should give you an idea of the performance you can expect.
Please be realisticā¦ For example your motor might state itās
220 Horsepower or whatever. However as many Jaguar XK engines as
Iāve had on a dyno few twin carbed 4.2 get even near 150
Horsepower. The XK-E with 3 carbs claims 265 horsepower but Iāve
never found one to make more than 190 at bestā¦ (and that a rare
one)ā¦
Same thing with Nitrousā¦ You may plug in 150 HP one on your
engine and expect it to add 150 more horsepower. Almost never
happens. Depending on factors such as distribution and manifold 1/2
to 2/3rds (75-100hp) is far more likely.ā
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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In reply to a message from MGuar sent Sat 5 Mar 2011:
Just checked the manual. Apparently my car is either a model
8 or a model 20 BW. Not a GMā¦ (sorry, I think we all
wanted it to be the GM!)
As my car is a 1977 (1968-1980 run) I suspect its a model 20
BWā¦
When it comes to QM times I was hoping for under 20
seconds!!! In theory I could bracket race, have loads of
fun and just dial in at 20. Which is the slowest class the
NHRA have.
The QM calculator on line says 17 sec QM, which is frankly
amazing!!!
The main point of this is to have some fun with a car that
would have been scrapped!!! but not to destroy whatās left!
I have stereotyped you all and assumed you are a bit older
than me (34) and therefore frown at facebookā¦
If I have made an incorrect assumption, come join the group
and feel free to have a good laugh~!!
I am starting to think this project will grow organically. I
think if a XJ6 comes my way I will end up with injection, if
however a triple manifold comes to hand I will end up with
that! I just love S.Uās, they look cool, but I accept XJ6 S3
injection is the best optionā¦ But I need to get it in my
head what to do for custom / drag race balanceā¦
Petrol is now ļæ½1.33 a LITRE, do I care? Nope! ;-)ā
Lusstor
UK - South, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Lusstor sent Sun 6 Mar 2011:
Sorry to double post.
After loads of looking about, I think the best option is a Eaton
blower (supercharger) either a M90 or MP90 or M112 MP112 as fitted
to the XJ8 supercharged.
There are loads of them about, im sure I can make it work, I can
also still use a single 2 inch SUļæ½ (according to the flow data, it
will work). I recon I could make the pullys and manifold etcļæ½ Or
rather I can design them and get them madeļæ½
This avoids XJ6 injection and the heat etc from a turbo. I will be
running at 0% boost at tick over and if I keep the revs down the
engine may survive for a few 100 milesļæ½ Or at least long enough to
test the theory.
Has no one ever tried this before? Really? I cant believe that they
have not ?
Am I dreaming or could this actually work? Because if it will then
i have a battle plan!ā
Lusstor
UK - South, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Lusstor sent Sun 6 Mar 2011:
Yes Iām an old fart (62) but racing doesnāt stop with social
security. More than a few people race well into their 70ās and
80ās Sir Stirling Moss and Paul Neuman come to mind immediately
Heck Paul Neuman was 77 when he entered LeMans the last time!
I love what you are doing!
You have a piece that as you said was destined for the scrap yard
and you will trade some work, a little money, and effort for
hopefully a lot of fun!
Good for you!Iāll help all I can and if you donāt like a bit of
advice youāre free to ignore itā¦ I wonāt be offendedā¦
Donāt try a turbo(s) without fuel rejection. Only the series 3
XJ6 had fuel rejection.
However I have a supercharged XK motor (Iāve owned it for nearly
20 years)If stock your motor is making say 180hp (which is really
great for a 4.2, because the dynoās at Jagaur must figure on horses
(ponies?) with extremely skinny legs) Toss a supercharger on it and
you can be making 400 horspower if you do it right.
PS Properly tuned and maintained a supercharged engine will last
as long as a normally asperated oneā¦ Remember going down the
highway at a steady speed you arenāt producing any boost. Only
under acceration will boost be madeā¦
PSS,
Iām sucha computer luddite that I have trouble finding stuff
unless I have a link to click onā¦ Sorryā¦ I wish I could post my
pictures for you. Iāve got some but I suspect my shop is what
youād really get excited aboutā¦ No itās not one of those fancy
ones with marble etcā¦ But it is filled with wierd strage projects.
MY currant project is A 1950 MGTD and Jaguar engine trans/running
gear and suspensionā¦ Did you know that the track of a XK-E (seies
1&2) is the same as the track of an XK-E? So believe it or not it
fits and doesnāt look stupidā¦ (thatās the one that will get my
Supercharged XK motor)ā
The original message included these comments:
The QM calculator on line says 17 sec QM, which is frankly
amazing!!!
The main point of this is to have some fun with a car that
would have been scrapped!!! but not to destroy whatās left!
I am starting to think this project will grow organically. I
think if a XJ6 comes my way I will end up with injection, if
however a triple manifold comes to hand I will end up with
that! I just love S.Uās, they look cool, but I accept XJ6 S3
injection is the best optionā¦ But I need to get it in my
In reply to a message from MGuar sent Wed 16 Mar 2011:
Yes and thankyou. I will take all the help I can get.
I just go myself via Ebay a spare XK engine a 1971 S1 XJ6 to
yes for testing and spares.
Just a quick question, Which supercharger did you use? Was
it the Eaton M112?
The problem I have is that M112ās (from newish XJ8R) are
hard to get here, but M90ās (from older XJ6r) are plentiful.
If you are able to work out facebook, joining the Hearse
group I have linked above would really help.ā
Lusstor
UK - South, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Lusstor sent Fri 18 Mar 2011:
Lusstor;
No My supercharger was made by an American company called B&M .
I wouldnāt hesitate to use a M90 It might be a tad on the smallish
size but so what! This isnāt all out racingā¦ It will add power
and cool factor. Youāre not building a Formula 1 carā¦ just
something for funā¦
My second car was a hearseā¦ I bought it from a junkyard because
it had an engine fire. I got a used carb for $5.00 washed it in
gasolene and put it on in place of the melted oneā¦Then I traced
wires and soldered in new wire where the old wire had burnt. new
upper radiator hose and well I think I had about &65.00 in the
whole thing when it was back running on the roadā¦ Sold it later
for $400 to a Rock and Roll band to haul their instruments withā¦
Wound up on a cover of their album! (weāre talking 1964)ā
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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Have a look at the April Hot Rod magazine - they boosted a Corvette with
a pair of gas powered leaf blowers - Iām not joking. Apparently it
works! That combined with your hearse coachwork would definitely make
you the talk of the pitsā¦On 3/18/2011 2:26 PM, MGuar wrote:
In reply to a message from Lusstor sent Fri 18 Mar 2011:
Lusstor;
No My supercharger was made by an American company called B&M .
I wouldnāt hesitate to use a M90 It might be a tad on the smallish
size but so what! This isnāt all out racingā¦ It will add power
and cool factor. Youāre not building a Formula 1 carā¦ just
something for funā¦
My second car was a hearseā¦ I bought it from a junkyard because
it had an engine fire. I got a used carb for $5.00 washed it in
gasolene and put it on in place of the melted oneā¦Then I traced
wires and soldered in new wire where the old wire had burnt. new
upper radiator hose and well I think I had about&65.00 in the
whole thing when it was back running on the roadā¦ Sold it later
for $400 to a Rock and Roll band to haul their instruments withā¦
Wound up on a cover of their album! (weāre talking 1964)
In reply to a message from John Magee sent Fri 18 Mar 2011:
John. PMSL, thatās so funny. Iāll see if I can get that in
the UK. Thanks I appreciate everyoneās suggestions. Leaf
blowers, thatās so funny. hahahahahahahaha
MGuar, I also thought the M90 would be too small. I will
hold out for a M112. There is no huge rush yet. The engine I have coming from the XJ6 should have 9:1 compression
pistons, I assume I could drop them in to the hearse instead
of the 8:1, but maybe thatās too high if I have a blowerā¦
I just finished my 1967 S-type at the weekend (finally fixed
the carb linkages to how they should be, thatās taken 5
years of messing about!!!), so this week I can start welding
the hearse and getting the MOT so I can get it ready to
runā¦ I have adjusted my goals I hope to get an MOT on it
for Halloween! (non supercharged)ā
Lusstor
UK - South, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Lusstor sent Sun 20 Mar 2011:
9.0-1 compression is fine, if the size of the blower is too small.
Where you run into trouble is with a whole lot of boost and high
compressionā¦
The hemi head is resistant to detonation since there are no sharp
edges to cause troubleā¦ā
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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In reply to a message from MGuar sent Sun 20 Mar 2011:
I have just started reading āāstreet supercharging a complete
guideāā just so I can get a good idea.
I now undrstand what the M112 means, 1.8 litres displacment
and the M90 is about 1.4 litresā¦ But how that corosponds
to blowing through the XK engine I still dont understand.
So I need to work out what a M112 and 9:1 pistons will do, i
suspect go BANG!!!
What I am failing to understand is how to read the maps
from Eaton?
I dont understand how I can change things to make it work
with my engine? So for example, I am assuming the pressure
ratio is changed by the pully size?
How do I know which pressure ratio is which pully size and
further how much can a XK engine take?
Then there are shades of blue with different contours and
numbers whats all that about?
Eaton has a help section that covers maps, its not very
helpfull. Maybe my book will cover this later onā¦
PS the spare 4.2 engine and MT75 gearbox turn up tomorow.
Now I just need to get a supercharger, I think its a case of
waiting on Ebayā¦ā
Lusstor
UK - South, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Lusstor sent Wed 23 Mar 2011:
Hmmm Supercharging,
Well what you need to know is how many CFM a given blower will
produce at what sort of RPMā¦ Thatās in a chart some place.
Hereās the hard partā¦ You can spin a supercharger much faster
than the motor. 2x even 3X has been doneā¦ However a by product of
fast speeds is heatā¦ you are effectively compressing air and that
makes air hotterā¦ the hotter the air the greater the Knock
potentialā¦ The higher octane fuel is required to prevent knockā¦
When full out racing isnāt importantā¦ simply run the blower at a
speed that wonāt overheat the charge and live with that amount of
boostā¦ It will be an improvement over normal asperationā¦How much
depends on various factorsā¦
Youāre doing a delicate balancing act. Your first priority has
to be can you afford itā¦ So Iād check prices on the M112 and then
prices on the MP90. Now wait a minuteā¦ youāll have to mount and
drive theseā¦ thatās never a trivial deal. Look at where the
charge intake is on the MP90 and compare it to the M112ā¦ Iāll bet
the M112 is too short to match the intake easily isnāt it? IF the
MP90 isnāt long enough simply forget supercharging and focus on
turboās. You can take two turboās designed for 2+ litre engines
and hook one up to each exhaust manifoldā¦ youāll have enough boost!
(and likely not too much) then your only concern is modifing the
fuel curve based on boost pressure which is easily done with a
FMUā¦ (about $85 new) Yes you have to find a series 3 fuel
injection. Iāll bet there are hundreds sitting around rusted too
much to pass MOT or damaged in an accident and undriveable. etcā¦
Shop until you find one, steal all the goodies toss your old stuff
in the boot and sell the whole thing back for scrapā¦OR part it out
on E Bayā¦ (could actually make a few pounds doing that plus wind
up with the good stuff for free).ā
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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