MGuar was kind enough to provide links to the Robert Knodt facebook
pics of a baffled oil pan but are there other variations to
accomplish the same purpose…ie: stainless mesh/foam to slow
the surge as the side Gs to pull oil away from the pump pickup?–
86XJ-S cpes,Ballet I,Act II,Lutz stg.1,288 Dana
Fresno, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from Dr.Quail sent Mon 17 Dec 2012:
Dr. Quail;
It’s not just under cornering but also under braking that
race tires cause the oil to surge away from the pickup… in
fact Braking is worse because the oil floods up into the
timing cover and then has to work it’s way clear back to the
oil pickup location…
Street tires, Power brakes, ABS all help the oiling
problem… They simply cannot generate the sort of G forces
that race tires and non-boosted brakes can.
One way baffles are really the only thing that works,
sorta… Mesh/foam etc. might slow oil down from leaving the
pickup but it will also delay it’s return so the period
without oil will be too long…
That’s the flaw of something like the Accusump… in that
while it does provide a brief period of supplemental oiling
it also needs refilling and has to be completely recharged
before full oil pressure/volume can return to the bearings
etc…
A dry sump solves all of those issues but it is a very
expensive solution. The pump itself is expensive since it
needs to be so big to pump the sort of volume the V12
requires… Plus the added sections to drain oil and send it
to the tank…the fittings and hose is not that expensive
except that in line filters are now needed to protect that
expensive pump etc… Oil cooler and oil tanks add further to
the costs… Then there is the drive and mounts. Since there
aren’t any off the shelf kits for dry sump a skilled
fabricator’s time is required. Those with the knowledge and
experience to do a good job will be expensive… While a DIY
guy might be able to do many things a dry sump system that
works is way beyond most peoples skills.–
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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In reply to a message from MGuar sent Fri 21 Dec 2012:
very well explained MG!
speaking about oil slosh, check out the new engine test stand
for the 2014 Corvette, it rotates the engine on the dyno at
full load, 45* side to side and 45* front and back, and in a
circular motion all at the same time, everything but upside
down.
its on the new GM site engine testing, it is amazing!!–
The original message included these comments:
It’s not just under cornering but also under braking that
race tires cause the oil to surge away from the pickup… in
fact Braking is worse because the oil floods up into the
timing cover and then has to work it’s way clear back to the
oil pickup location…
experience to do a good job will be expensive… While a DIY
guy might be able to do many things a dry sump system that
works is way beyond most peoples skills.
MGuar
–
Ronbros
daytona fl. / Austin TX., United States
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In reply to a message from Ronbros sent Sat 22 Dec 2012:
Gentlemen, thanks for your comments. I am coming to the conclusion
that a compromise would serve well for high speed touring involving
mountain roads, etc. Baffled sump and the addition of a synthetic
motor oil blended into regular Castrol 20-50, or Rotella 15-40 with
the addition of a quart of Motul 5-40 turbo diesel spec 505(high
temp additives for the Turbo). The last I have been using since
acquisition of my 03 VW Jetta TDI wagon and have been greatly
pleased with the performance and condition of the engine. I
understand the dry sump idea but believe it is overkill for my
needs. Accusump is just an accessory to my racing chums for pre-
oiling b/4 startup. ? would swiss cheesed rigid (welded in top and
bottom) baffle plates work as well as the hinged units as they
would be simpler to fabricate? Any idea what the Corvette guys did
to achieve such oilflow under the described conditions?
Any comments and further input would be greatly appreciated.
Merry Xmas and let us continue on with our quest for great
performance from the XJ-S. Single malts in your honor gentlemen,
JW.–
The original message included these comments:
speaking about oil slosh, check out the new engine test stand
for the 2014 Corvette, it rotates the engine on the dyno at
full load, 45* side to side and 45* front and back, and in a
circular motion all at the same time, everything but upsideIt’s not just under cornering but also under braking that
race tires cause the oil to surge away from the pickup… in
fact Braking is worse because the oil floods up into the
guy might be able to do many things a dry sump system that
works is way beyond most peoples skills.
–
86XJ-S cpes,Ballet I,Act II,Lutz stg.1,288 Dana
Fresno, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from Dr.Quail sent Sun 23 Dec 2012:
if you couldnt get the GM dyno site.
utube; new LT1 engine tilt stand.
GMinsidenewsvideo
Ron
i,m having a Lager–
The original message included these comments:
Gentlemen, thanks for your comments. I am coming to the conclusion
that a compromise would serve well for high speed touring involving
mountain roads, etc. Baffled sump and the addition of a synthetic
Any comments and further input would be greatly appreciated.
Merry Xmas and let us continue on with our quest for great
performance from the XJ-S. Single malts in your honor gentlemen,
JW.
–
Ronbros
daytona fl. / Austin TX., United States
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In reply to a message from Dr.Quail sent Sun 23 Dec 2012:
No Dr. Quail;
Swiss cheesed won’t hold the oil around the oil pickup.
When hot, oil is as thin as water!!! So imagine trying to
pull water out of a well with Swiss cheesed something as
compared to a one way flap…Actually if you look at Robert
Knodt’s facebook pages you’ll notice that the box has 4
flaps in it two in the back to hold oil under acceleration
and two in the front to hold it under braking… And it’s
skewed 45Degees to help in cornering… What you don’t see
is how tight it fits against the oil tray above!
The newest models Corvettes are dry sumped!–
The original message included these comments:
oiling b/4 startup. ? would swiss cheesed rigid (welded in top and
bottom) baffle plates work as well as the hinged units as they
would be simpler to fabricate? Any idea what the Corvette guys did
to achieve such oilflow under the described conditions?
–
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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In reply to a message from MGuar sent Mon 24 Dec 2012:
I believe Grp 44 had a swinging pick up, I guess it followed
the oil …must have been in the swinging 80’s …
LOL… possibly another of Lanky’s additions…Art–
Pacific Jaguar Enthusiasts Group 44, Canada.
Pitt Meadows, BC, Canada
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In reply to a message from MGuar sent Mon 24 Dec 2012:
HEY MG just read this duh!
you right new Corvettes are dry sumped.
I guess serious racing costs serious money!–
The original message included these comments:
No Dr. Quail;
Swiss cheesed won’t hold the oil around the oil pickup.
When hot, oil is as thin as water!!! So imagine trying to
pull water out of a well with Swiss cheesed something as
The newest models Corvettes are dry sumped!
MGuar
–
Ronbros
daytona fl. / Austin TX., United States
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In reply to a message from MGuar sent Mon 24 Dec 2012:
MG,
Robert Knodt’s, facebook, amazing, I wish I had that shop
and his skill, dayyyyyyyummmmm–
The original message included these comments:
compared to a one way flap…Actually if you look at Robert
Knodt’s facebook pages you’ll notice that the box has 4
flaps in it two in the back to hold oil under acceleration
–
1987 XJ-S, 1988 XJ-S Tremec TK500. AJ6 Torque kit
Toronto, Canada
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In reply to a message from Repairman sent Sun 17 Mar 2013:
New book out written by Allen Scott ‘TWR and Jaguars XJ-S’ details
and has a photo of the wet-sump oil pan used by TWR to control the
surging in the long block V12. It also utilized a sidetank with
breather and special windage tray with wiper to assist in keeping
oil supplied under surge conditions, braking forces that unweighted
the rear end as can be seen in photos included in this most
excellent book on the XJ-S raised to peak performance on road
racing tracks.
Thanks to Allen Scott head of TWR Race Engines Dept we can read and
see solutions to many of the problems we currently discuss. Ebay UK
seems to be the only current source unless you are in NZ or OZ
where the book is available from Mr.Scott in NZ or Mike Rody? in
OZ, per Norm Lutz who referred me to the book via Skype. Thanks
Norm for the heads up, looking forward to our visit in OZ in
Nov.13. Best reading to all, JW.–
The original message included these comments:
compared to a one way flap…Actually if you look at Robert
–
86XJ-S cpes,Ballet I,Act II,Lutz stg.1,288 Dana
Fresno, CA, United States
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