Radius arms. which side is up - IRS First Time Rebuild


(Mark Lee (Pay Pal Patron)) #41

Having issues pulling the hub out of the carrier. I’m open to suggestions on how to get these two pieces apart.

I have a 20 ton press but the hub and carrier are wider than my press. Short of welding up a big horse shoe collar to fit around the carrier with stand offs to another plate. Here’s a picture of the template I made a template to cut a collar out of a piece of 5/16" plate. How appropriate for this tear down for the template to look like a


Ok, so it doesn’t look like a horse shoe.

I’d then weld some vertical stand offs that will hold another plate for the attached press to push against. Thus pushing on the carrier while pulling on the wheel hub.

I’m also curious on how to get the fulcrum bushings and bearings out with minimal damage. I’m resisting using a drift because I don’t want to mar the surfaces. Open to suggestions.

In typical Mark fashion, I tend to make the job harder that needs to be, so I’m throwing this one out to the collective to see if I’m completely off base, and once again making this job harder than it needs to be.

Thank you in advance
Mark


(Robin O'Connor) #42

One way to remove the fulcrum race is to run a bead of weld around the bearing face, when the weld cools it shrinks the race slightly allowing it to be removed.


(tony) #43

you are probably going to hate this, but I dismantled and rebuilt two a couple of years ago, and got everything apart using (mainly brass) drifts. The only exception was the Churchill hub pulling tool

I will look at my archived pics for any clues.

a jig is shown somewhere to use a press for the job you have…I didnt need to do that, and knocked out the hub from the carrier from the inside, not by using a puller, as you have pictured

so where it says “pressure” I used a drift and hammer


(Mark Lee (Pay Pal Patron)) #44

Thanx for the advice; I’ll give that a go once I get the hub and bearings out. That’s kinda where I’m at now.

Thanks again,
Mark


(Robin O'Connor) #45

I also use Tonys approach to removing the hub, I even replaced bearings with the hub still on the car, difficult but doable.


(Mark Lee (Pay Pal Patron)) #46

Well that’s the direction I was thinking if I could figure out a way to use the press. I think that will work. Back to the scrappers for some steel. The only thing that worries me about this config is the bits holding up the hub are holding against a rounded surface I’d think they’d slip off; but then again maybe there isn’t that much force holding it into place. I suppose I could weld up brackets or a lip to keep the cross bars from slipping. I like it. Very simple.


(tony) #47

I think it best to use wood, rather than steel, to support the alloy housing

there is also a better way to build the jig, so that it is custom for the job, i seem to recall measurement


(Andrew Waugh) #48

I use a large bearing splitter with some Delrin pads retained in the splitter recess. The threaded rods stop the spreading. There shouldn’t be much force in pushing the hub out.


(Mark Lee (Pay Pal Patron)) #49

Wood makes that a whole lot easier, I happen to have a bunch of that. So I take it, the hub isn’t in there very tight. Keep in mind, the bushes I pushed out nearly max’d out my press. There was a bit of pucker factor before the big end bush finally conceded to leaving the radius arm. I assumed that is what I was in for (again).

It was the same thing on the Series II IFS spindles and carriers. It took an Oxy/Acetylene rose bud and the press to liberate the two.


(Mark Lee (Pay Pal Patron)) #50

I like that Idea, @Andrew_Waugh. though, I need to get a bearing splitter anyway. My only concern about the amount of force to liberate the two is it appears (judging by the seal seat and the surface of the bearing it’s spun and may be seriously bonded to the axle. Then again, I am probably way over thinking this. I have a tendency to thinking too much.


(Mark Lee (Pay Pal Patron)) #51

Oops, Sorry Robin, I missed the “fulcrum” part of the bearing / spacer bit. That makes total sense. Sorry


(Robin O'Connor) #52

A butane torch played on the ally would help to ease the bearings out. I had to use two on my upright to remove the stub axle with my cheap press at full pressure, when it let go it made a small indentation in the garage floor :slight_smile:


(Andrew Waugh) #53

Thinking too much? The first time you do any job it’s unfamiliar - it’s perfectly normal to pause and inventory all of the possible ways it can go wrong.


(tony) #54

it wasnt like that with mine, but maybe they can be, as I understand if it all just falls out with a few taps, that can mean some wear has taken place.

The hard bit was getting the half-shaft out of the hub, as it been locktite in, and I used the Jag club tool, and a 6ft pipe on one car, the other was much easier

I cant find relevant pics, but cant remember needing any special tools to get the carrier bearings out, I think there may be cutouts allowing them to be drifted?

did need a splitter and press for the diff output half-shafts

If you are doing an IRS build, I was able to salvage the old bearings and honed them to make dummy bearings which aid greatly in assembly, (where applicable in an IRS rebuild) not everyone agrees, but when I asked my mate who is an engineer/mechanic 60+ yrs, he said that is how he does it. The bearings cant be worn out or damaged

the radius arm bushes are very tight, and I was once again glad to have the club Churchill tools at hand, you did well to get it done without them


(Mark Lee (Pay Pal Patron)) #55

Granted I haven’t gotten this far yet (assembly); so I’m not really sure what you’re on about (Honing the old bearings to assist in assembly).


(tony) #56

at assembly, come time to install the new bearings and check for correct pre-load/endplay at the diff output shaft, and hub, if you assemble with brand new bearings, and clearance is not correct, they will need to be removed.

In the instance of the diff output shaft, the bottom race is very difficult to remove with a bearing separator, often damaging the cage…so if you used a brand new bearing, you will be mad as hell…and then once its all set right, it must be fully dismantled anyway to add the outer oil seal.

To get around this, if the old bearings are ok, carefully hone the ID till it is a tight slip fit over the shaft, instead of an interference press fit. do the setup & measuring, then install the new bearings, I allowed ~.001-.002" for wear in the old bearing, you can and should measure the compressed bearings with a micrometer to make sure. If all is well, the setup will be correct.
I found if everything is put back together with the original master shim, they were right, if that is damaged, new setup measurements need to be made.

In other situations, hone the OD. You now have a setup kit to rebuild diff/IRS etc

its actually worth buying an extra new bearing to hone, if the old one is knackered

its a bit hard to explain, but you will know exactly what I am talking about when it comes time, or google the topic for more detail…ie “hone bearings for diff setup”


(Dick Maury) #57

Very simple. There is an edge on the large end that keeps the bushing from pushing through. It goes on top. The bushing has the larger opening on the same upright side. Press it in from the other side with the two holes lined up with the length of the arm. much easier to tell the top of the radius arm on earlier cars with a sway bar mounting.


(Mark Lee (Pay Pal Patron)) #58

Status update - the Hub and carrier are liberated.
I used @awg’s approach Picture is above in the thread.
Some serious pucker factor once again.
These two bits did not want to come apart.

  • First go I used wood, but I could see it crack and I stopped before disaster stroke.
  • replaced the timber with 3/32nd wall box tubing.

    Then big noise shit flying all over the place and the two pieces were no longer together. Happy day. I’m glad I decided to quit using the hand pump on the press. I switched to the pneumatic pump instead. this way I was out of the line of fire.
    It seems around me, all the good news is quickly followed by bad news.

    This can’t I’m pretty sure this can’t be good. I can’t catch a finger nail, and the ridge on the left of the circle is grease that is hard as a rock; and shatters like glass or very cold plastic.

(Mark Lee (Pay Pal Patron)) #59

The grease is hard as a rock, and this bearing still won’t come out. I"m trying to thin of what I can soak it in to break down the grease.


It looks pliable but beleve me, it’s far from it. I’ve never seen grease get hard like that.


(Robin O'Connor) #60

Butane torch, it can’t stay put if its liquid :slight_smile: