[RE: The no-die thermo thread, was [xj] Addition to the left thermostat thread!]

Not give in. Rather, give up. I suppose observation matters not.

Burton"David Hodges" dav.lyn@virgin.net wrote:
I give in (not concede)

regards

Dave 2000

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org]On Behalf
Of Alex Cannara
Sent: 08 August 2001 19:30
Cc: Jag- Lovers
Subject: Re: The no-die thermo thread, was [xj] Addition to the left
thermostat thread!

Ahhh, but David, those folks you quote are all dealing from a partial
deck. The restriction is there to maintain the temp up at the design
value – removing it will lower the engine’s temp – otherwise, why let
the thermo open at all? You could just as easily propose having no
thermo, but a valve you control from the driver’s seat, or better, a
hose from the head to a bucket beside you. When the bucket fills, stop,
go out and dump it in the rad. Wait a few minutes or so (fan running),
then drain the rad into the bucket and refill the engine. The bucket
will have very cool water in it, the block will crack and you’ll not
have to do it again.

The larger the pipe from the engine, the cooler the engine will run.
This is Nature, as expressed in Thermo 101 – M x c x dT. Increasing
either water flow (M) or increase dT (temp drop across rad) have exactly
the same effect on heat removal. This has been my experience in a few
different cars over 40 years that I’ve had to remove the thermo from.
These folks you quote cannot show an understanding of basic
thermodynamics of fluids (MxCxdT), so I’ll never relent on this, having
had to put up with a rough prof and lab in it myself. This is the myth
of mechanics’ myths apparently.

Double-acting thermos, unlike the XJ6’s, may add complexity, but the
overall thermodynamic implications remain. {:o]

Alex
79xj6L SII
86xj6 SIII
61 Sprite MkII
Menlo Park, Calif.

David Hodges wrote:

On my side of the pond I/we are informed that one of the most
reliable/robust/engines in America is the Chevy, now in an effort to put
this thread ‘to bed’ anyone who is still unsure about the results/outcome
of
removing the stat should go down to the nearest garage/shop that
tunes/builds high performance Chevy’s and then tell them that you are
going
to remove the thermostat, this should prompt a response such as “then you
will need one of these coolant restrictors to slow down the flow through
the
rad”.

Still unsure? Ask any central heating engineer WHY ARE YOU SLOWING DOWN
THE
WATER IN MY HOUSE RADIATORS? He will reply it is to slow down the flow
and
allow the radiator enough time to give off its heat. Otherwise the water
RETURNING to the boiler will be still be very hot and the boiler will be
switching on/off on/off to fast. By slowing down the flow you are
allowing
the RADIATORS to do their job i.e. RADIATE (read LOSE) HEAT.

If that is not a clear explanation I apologise but, I am going to ‘un-sub’
to go on HOLIDAY and will not have the opportunity for further input
(unless
the thread is still going 8>), ‘see’ you all in a couple of weeks.

kindest regards

Dave 2000 1976 XJ 5.3 C still in the paint shop Essex UK
[clipped by a restrictor]

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/xjfaq.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to
http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/xjfaq.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to
http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.


Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/xjfaq.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

Burton, I think we’ve each said we’re talking from observation, and I
promise to do same on our 86, forging ahead despite the dire warnings!
:]–
Alex
79xj6L SII
86xj6 SIII
61 Sprite MkII
Menlo Park, Calif.

Hawk wrote:

Not give in. Rather, give up. I suppose observation matters not.

Burton

“David Hodges” dav.lyn@virgin.net wrote:
I give in (not concede)

regards

Dave 2000

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org]On Behalf
Of Alex Cannara
Sent: 08 August 2001 19:30
Cc: Jag- Lovers
Subject: Re: The no-die thermo thread, was [xj] Addition to the left
thermostat thread!

Ahhh, but David, those folks you quote are all dealing from a partial
deck. The restriction is there to maintain the temp up at the design
value – removing it will lower the engine’s temp – otherwise, why let
the thermo open at all? You could just as easily propose having no
thermo, but a valve you control from the driver’s seat, or better, a
hose from the head to a bucket beside you. When the bucket fills, stop,
go out and dump it in the rad. Wait a few minutes or so (fan running),
then drain the rad into the bucket and refill the engine. The bucket
will have very cool water in it, the block will crack and you’ll not
have to do it again.

The larger the pipe from the engine, the cooler the engine will run.
This is Nature, as expressed in Thermo 101 – M x c x dT. Increasing
either water flow (M) or increase dT (temp drop across rad) have exactly
the same effect on heat removal. This has been my experience in a few
different cars over 40 years that I’ve had to remove the thermo from.
These folks you quote cannot show an understanding of basic
thermodynamics of fluids (MxCxdT), so I’ll never relent on this, having
had to put up with a rough prof and lab in it myself. This is the myth
of mechanics’ myths apparently.

Double-acting thermos, unlike the XJ6’s, may add complexity, but the
overall thermodynamic implications remain. {:o]

Alex
79xj6L SII
86xj6 SIII
61 Sprite MkII
Menlo Park, Calif.

David Hodges wrote:

On my side of the pond I/we are informed that one of the most
reliable/robust/engines in America is the Chevy, now in an effort to put
this thread ‘to bed’ anyone who is still unsure about the results/outcome
of
removing the stat should go down to the nearest garage/shop that
tunes/builds high performance Chevy’s and then tell them that you are
going
to remove the thermostat, this should prompt a response such as “then you
will need one of these coolant restrictors to slow down the flow through
the
rad”.

Still unsure? Ask any central heating engineer WHY ARE YOU SLOWING DOWN
THE
WATER IN MY HOUSE RADIATORS? He will reply it is to slow down the flow
and
allow the radiator enough time to give off its heat. Otherwise the water
RETURNING to the boiler will be still be very hot and the boiler will be
switching on/off on/off to fast. By slowing down the flow you are
allowing
the RADIATORS to do their job i.e. RADIATE (read LOSE) HEAT.

If that is not a clear explanation I apologise but, I am going to ‘un-sub’
to go on HOLIDAY and will not have the opportunity for further input
(unless
the thread is still going 8>), ‘see’ you all in a couple of weeks.

kindest regards

Dave 2000 1976 XJ 5.3 C still in the paint shop Essex UK
[clipped by a restrictor]

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/xjfaq.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.