Rear hub carrier/wishbone question

While working on my rear brakes I noticed that the hub carrier does not pivot against the lower wishbone. Both are firmly pressed against each other. Closer examination shows (see photos) that the wishbone ends directly connect to the hub carrier without any spacing or washer in-between. I am quite certain that this is not the way it is supposed to be. Both sides are identical. Aside from the fact that possibly the carrier bearings are shot, is it possible that the wishbones ends were bent towards the hub?
What is my best approach to rectify this?


What do you mean they don’t pivot, are the wishbones locked tight onto the hub carrier? If they’re similar to the E-type they are quite a snug fit against the hub carrier but there should be a small amount of float there, about. 006 but check the service manual. They tighten up to an outer washer which buts against the outer races of a tapered roller bearing each side of the hub carrier. Adjustment is by shims and a spacer tube between the races inside the hub carrier, it is fully described in the manual.

Randall: Exactly that is my problem. There is no outer washer and there is no space for a washer, nor a feeler gauge. The wishbones are locked tight to the hub carrier.

There are many DIY videos on YouTube on the Jaguar IRS. This one shows setting up the hub to wishbone bearings, starting a few minutes in.

Jon

https://youtu.be/NIAR6mZLnlM

Hi Stephan…the set up procedure is detailed in tne service manual. …first you have the hub carrier on the bench with the shaft and set up the bearings with endfloat (see figures in manual)…the carrier is then positioned onto the wishbone…now the critical and awkward bit…thin shims are now used between the outer face of the bearing and the wishbone to take up free space. …read the service manual uts all detailed very well but you may need ti read it a few times to fully understand it…dont rely in youtube vids as there are many out there that are not correct…Steve

That’s how it’s supposed to be Stephan, no washers between the hub carrier and the wishbone.
The end-float is adjusted with washers between the two end bearings, inside the hub carrier.

The poster says that the hub carrier is tight in the wishbone and dosnt move…that is not correct…the aluminiumn of the carrier should not be in contact with the wishbone…Steve

Spacer between the bearings is shimmed wrong or missing, this places the bearings too far into the carrier which would allow it to lock. Set it up correctly and hope who ever worked on it didn’t touch anything else.

All

thank you so much for your responses! As Steve stated: My problem is that the inner distance between the two wishbone ends seems to be too small (bent?) so that I can barely fit the carrier to it. So unless I increase the inner spacing of the wishbone the carrier will not swivel/pivot one installed.
The wishbone looks to me like a solid piece of metal. Did anyone ever tried to bent that?

Stephan

If the inner spacer tube is too short or lacking shims the wishbone is probably over tightened and clamping the hub carrier. If the ears on the wishbone are bent towars each other they’ll have to be spread out with a hydraulic jack or some such.

Randall: Yes I am afraid that is what I need to do. I am just wondering how much force it would need to spread the wishbone ears…

Don’t know, I’m sure they’re pretty strong but no prob for a hydraulic jack. But loosen the pivot shaft nuts first, they may spring open enough to give some clearance as they are. If you do jack them go easy, not more than 1mm before release check, then again in small increments etc.

Hi Stephan…i would be very supprised if the shaft had ever been tightened enough to bend the wishbone ends inwards…if the hub carrier is set up correctly the bearings just stick out a bit wider than the carrier…this whole thing then only just fits into the wishbone. …tilt the carrier sideways and it wont fit…when the carrier is fitted in the wishbone it should then move very slightly from side to side…you take up this slack only a few thou with shims placed between the outside of the bearing and the wishbone…this is so that when you tighten the shaft the whole carrier can swing up/down but not move side to side…the shims are used becaus the wishbone is to thick to be able to tighten and bend the ends to take up slack…Steve

Hello Steve, so in my car the bearing is flush with the carrier (please see my photos above). If it would stick out, I would not be able to insert the hub carrier between the wishbone ears. It is that tight! No feeler gauge can fit between the hub carrier and the wishbone. 0 gap. No idea how this happened. So I either use a hydraulic press to slightly open up the wishbone or I use a grinder on the inside ears of the wishbone. What do you think?

Hi Stephen…hold fire with a grinder or bending the wishbone…looking very closely at your photo i cannot see that the aluminium carrier is actually touching the wishbone…if it was then there should be signs of wearbon the alluminium…with a correctly assembled carrier the bearings and any shimes used should be tight in the wishbone but a tiny gap between ali carrier and wishbone…i think you need to confirm that the ali is in contact with the wishbone…how are you checking that carrier does not pivot…have you disconnected the driveshaft…Steve

If indeed the lower control arm is solid to the hub, the suspensin is locked. try the bounce test I thonk it will reveal that the suspension is not locked, if it does not move the car must ride like a horse drawn bu kboard of lden times…

Hello Steve, I will double check the bearing position but I can clearly state that the bearing is not protruding at all from the carrier. The way I tested the pivoting was with a floor jack under the center of the hub carrier (I removed the grease nipple) and pushed the assembly up. Definitely no movement between the hub carrier and the wishbone.
Then I positioned the jack at the halfway point of the wishbone and moved the wishbone up. Again no movement/pivoting between hub carrier and wishbone ears.

Hi Carl, thanks for your feedback: Well, as I just posted the entire wheel, driveshaft, wishbone, shocks is moving up and down (however without pivoting hub carrier) but I agree with you for a while I am thinking that the rear end is pretty stiff. Hence my raised interest in getting this fixed.

More thinking! good for my grey matter!!!

the suspension is in te form of two paralelograms One on each side. Each parallelogram is hinged at the cornmers. whn the suspension is jounced r bouced, each joint mujst move. If thje oputbpsrd corners on each side are bounmd, the l;ower part of the whelss must move to the outside. reverse camber. surely not intended. teh idea of fur hinges is to amintain camber trugh bpounce and jonce.

odd that bot are locked??

Hi Stephen. …you really dont want to be jacking up under the ali hub carrier…you could damage it…when correctly assembled the bearing is only fractionaly wider than the carrier…(a few thou of an inch)…the easy test is with the wheels sitting in the ground bounce the car…if it bounces then the carrier must be pivoting…also as i said you will see wear if the ali is on/rubbing the wishbone…Steve