The splines on my rear hubs are worn and I need to replace them. I’ve read the archives and the factory manual and think I understand how to do it, but thought I would run it by the members who have previously done it and know how to do it. I’m a JCNA member and will be renting the tools through their free loaner program.
My proposed method.
Remove the split pin and remove the castellated nut from the axle shaft from inside the rear hub. Question are both nuts right hand threads? Can I use an impact gun?
Remove one of the nuts on the end of the outer fulcrum shaft on the hub carrier and drift out the shaft. Question: do I need to install the dummy shaft J14 at this time?
Separate the hub carrier from the wishbone. Question are there any shims on the outside of the hub carrier?
Remove the rear hub and carrier from the half shaft using tool JD7.
Press out the hub from the hub carrier using a tool press. Question what size press do I need?
Replace the bearing according to the manual.
Tools I intend to loan from JCNA are:
JD7 Hub remover for wire wheels
J13 Hub end float dial test indicator
J15 Hub end float spacer
J14 Rear wishbone pivot dummy shaft (2ea)
Is there anything that I’m missing or have overlooked? Any suggestions or tips?
Both nuts are right hand thread. I remove the split pins and back the nuts off while the IRS is still in the car, but an impact wrench would work too.
You can use a wooden dowel for the dummy shaft. 1/2" Copper pipe will also do (9/16 OD iirc). If you use Copper pipe do not hammer on the end (you shouldn’t need to on the outer shaft). Drifting the shaft out with the dummy will keep everything together.
There is only a spacer in the Carrier/yoke/hub.
The loctited yoke needs a lot of force. They usually fight all the way - the JD7 is necessary.
Pressing the hub out doesn’t require a huge force. Normally they’ll start to move with about 5t.
Make sure you get the hub carrier perfectly clean and the outer race seated fully home in the bore - otherwise your spacer measurements will be for nought.
Also:
If you have both sides apart at the same time mark the bits so you get them back on the same side.
When you take the KO off, put it on your new hub and mark which side is which on the hubs. (In the heat of the battle it’s easy to get sides mixed up.)
Consider changing the outer fulcrum seals to a lip seal (National 471652 ID:1-1/8 OD: 1-5/8 L:1/4) - this replaces the felt and it’s carrier. Check the shimming of the outer fulcrum anyway.
Pay attention to the orientation of the split pin hole on the yoke and the holes in the hub when assembling.
This photo album shows what is involved if you only need to replace the hub. I had rebuilt the IRS 3 years prior, so everything else was in good shape.
What is really important is to use a lot of loctite on the splines when you do the final reassemble.
Make sure the splines and where they slide into the hub is very clean and use red loctite very liberally.
If you don’t, you will have an annoying click from the spline as it does move a little within the hub when you accelerate or decelerate
David;
A very clear and understandable presentation. I like the way you annotated your pictures. You should be in the business of making “How I fixed my E Type”.
Thanks for your effort.
I’ve read that the factory did indeed do something similar with a brown locking compound of some sort at one time - not sure it was for all Series. If you find that your car was so treated, you will have a devil of a job removing the half-shaft from the hub unless you use the Jaguar tool. On my car, I used a press, and one side was very resistant to movement, while the other was not. I DID NOT use any locking compound when I reassembled the hub to the half-shaft, and can’t say I’ve noticed any clicking. As a result, I was able to disassemble the hub from the half-shaft when I later replaced the hub (as per my photos above) without the need of a press or any special tool. I’m not disagreeing with Dennis’s advice, but just mentioning that there has been some debate in the past on this forum of the need to use a locking compound in this area.
David, many thanks for you comprehensive photo essay that shows a lot of tricks and tips not mentioned anywhere in the manual. I’ll be referring to it many times.
One question though, is it necessary to remove the drive shaft at the disc? If you leave the drive shaft in place and remove the outer fulcrum shaft is there enough movement in the hub carrier to allow the end of the half shaft in the hub to be pressed backwards out of the hub with tool JD7?
Thanks again to you and everyone else for the advice.
Andy,
If you have the JD7 tool, it might be possible to avoid disconnecting the inboard end of the half shaft as you describe. If you don’t have the tool, and loctite has been used on the splines between the half shaft and the hub, you are going to have to remove the half-shaft/hub carrier as a unit to press them apart. In your case it would be worth a try I think. As I hadn’t used loctite on my previous reassembly I could probably have done as you suggest. My concern would be that on reassembly you will have to refit the half shaft to the hub before you refit the outer fulcrum shaft. That means dealing with the additional weight of the half shaft assembly when trying to guide the hub carrier between the arms of the wishbone - a delicate operation if you have properly shimmed the carrier to be a tight fit between the wishbone arms. If you do try it, please let us know so we can all benefit from your experience.
Looking at your old hubs, how I can’t tell if mine are worn. I thought it would be much more obvious. What were your symptoms that made it clear you needed to replace them?
I pressed my halfshafts out of my hubs just this morning (or rather the good folks out at Classic Jaguar did) and they were just as David describes if not worse. I had tried using the JD7 tool myself at home, but the shafts would not budge a millimeter. When they finally came out the CJ person looked at them and said they had locktight on them, probably from the factory. There was no way the halfshafts were coming out without the 20 ton press.
Thanks for the kind words… The main symptom with worn hubs is a distinct clunk coming from the wheel when you load/unload the splines. Most noticeable when you change direction - e.g reverse after going forwards, or vice-versa. That’s for the rear/driven wheels. On the fronts you can often hear it if you brake heavily.
Prompted by your question, I ventured into the garage and found a brand new hub and the old one I removed. These photos, particularly the close ups, show the difference between a good and bad hub.
The new splines (top) are much wider at the tip - almost trapezoidal in shape. The old splines (bottom) are pointed at the tip, and you can see a distinct asymmetry on each spline with one face being concave and the other straight like a sharks fin. This appearance becomes accentuated as the wear progresses.
It is much easier to see wear on the wheel itself, as the splines are significantly wider than the splines on the hub. As a result, only the center part of the wheel splines are loaded with the wheel installed. Comparing the center of the splines with the unworn edges gives a clear indication of how bad (or good) they are.
It works on Saloons. I have done a few both ways…this is how I know it works…
outer half-shaft snapped right where the big nut is…this is not unknown, due to a design flaw
when I jacked the car to examine the damage, the wheel just flopped off to the ground, held only by the lower fulcrum !..the angle of the uni allows the outer half-shaft to easily clear splines of hub/carrier
verified this is the case on other saloons
I believe this to be the main reason that Loctite is used on those splines (apparently on Jaguar instruction)
btw, the only reason I knew the axle had snapped was a rattle in the hubcap, which was the big nut with snapped-off axle rattling around, had been driving at +100km, luckily the weight of the car seems to have applied enough camber to stop the wheel flying off whilst driving!
This might be a silly question but when this happens to the hubs are the wheel splines also usually worn too and have to be addressed to avoid messing up the new hubs ?
Usually, yes. If the hubs and the wheels are the same age then replace both.
Now that you mention it… Has anyone put a new wheel on a new hub and measured play with a DI? I generally have a look at the splines when a wheel is off, and see if the wheel will turn vs the hub with the KO off, but tbh I couldn’t tell you how much relative movement would be normal.
Yes.
Proper use of the J7 includes use of the thread cap. JD7A/7 The ball end of the jack screw isn’t intended to interface with hollow, threaded end of the splined yoke.
Also, if you can get a hold of an old wire wheel, cut and discard the spokes/rim and weld a length of flat stock to to the splined hub.
It makes for a nice wrench to stop rotation whilst removing the castellated nut.
It’s just been over one month since I started this thread and thanks to the advice I can now say that I did it and it wasn’t as hard as I thought it might be. In fact the actual removal of the hub carriers took around 1 hour per side and the reinstallation about 2 hours per side. Most of the time was waiting for parts and waiting for my machine shop to have some time to press out the hubs from the carrier and then reassemble them. Even though I have a 10 ton shop press I don’t have any mandrels and I wanted it done right.
My method was:
Remove the split pin and remove the castellated nut from the axle shaft from inside the rear hub with an impact gun.
Remove one of the nuts on the end of the outer fulcrum shaft on the hub carrier and drift out the shaft with a dummy shaft.
Separate the hub carrier from the wishbone. Question are there any shims on the outside of the hub carrier?
Remove the rear hub and carrier from the half shaft using tool J7. This tool is essential and available for free loan from JCNA for members. I don’t know how you could pull the hub carrier off the axle shaft without this tool. BTW there was no Loctite on the axle shaft.
I took the entire hub carrier assembly to my friendly machine shop and we followed the manual to the letter. You need tool J15 to set the end float and then wait for the spacers to arrive.
I installed the hub carrier onto the axle shaft and it just takes getting it aligned and then gentle blows with a rubber mallet to get it to slide on. I then installed the washer and castellated nut.
hand tight.
To install the outer fulcrum shaft I jacked up the wishbone arm with a trolley jack to the same height as my wooden blocks and placed the hub carrier onto the blocks. With a little fine tuning with the jack I got the holes aligned and popped in the outer fulcrum shaft. DO NOT have the dummy shaft in place when you do this or you will not be able to align both holes at the same time.
I tightened the end nut to 50 ft lbs (manual calls for 40 ft lbs).
I had to tighten the castellated nut on the axle shaft to 160 ft lbs to get the split pin hole to align. I hope this is OK.
Tools I loaned from JCNA were:
J7 Hub remover for wire wheels
J13 Hub end float dial test indicator
J15 Hub end float spacer
I made my own dummy shaft from a 5/8" diameter bolt that I cut to 6.05" long.
BTW the splines on my hub were curved over, no wonder I had a clunk clunk.
Congratulations Andy on completing this task, which appears somewhat intimidating from reading the manual.
There should be shims between the hub carrier and the wishbone as per page K.14 of the Service Manual. Having determined by measurement how many shims are required, I relocate the shims behind the outer washers on the hub carrier to make it easier to fit the carrier into the wishbone.
Not sure I understand this comment. I presume your dummy shaft was no longer than the carrier is wide, wasn’t it?
The manual (page K.14) calls for 55 ft lbs - at least my copy does.
That is absolutely the WORST advice I’ve ever read here! Using ANY Loctite, much less Red, on those splines will make it absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to ever disassemble that hub again!
